Patrick Solomon is a filmmaker and storyteller from southern California. He was riding high as a TV commercial director when a mid-life crisis struck and took him down.
In this episode, Patrick reveals how he returned to his roots to find his salvation. He decided to make a film dedicated to the work of mythologist and writer Joseph Campbell. Campbell’s “hero’s journey” played out in Patrick’s life as he created the film “Finding Joe.”
In the end, it was Patrick’s vocation (storytelling) that gave him the path and the purpose to find himself again.
Resources from the episode:
- Want to watch the official full length version of FINDING JOE: A story about Joseph Campbell and The Hero’s Journey? Here’s a link to the 80-minute film filled with hope, love, and inspiration.
- Get to know more about Patrick here.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Patrick Solomon and Mark Wright
MARK WRIGHT 00:00
This is the BEATS WORKING Show. We’re on a mission to redeem work. The word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to the show! On today’s episode: using work to redeem your life. Patrick Solomon had it all. As a TV commercial director in Southern California, Patrick was flying high and he was living what looked like the good life, but then he crashed and burned in a midlife crisis. Anything that could go wrong did, and Patrick hit rock bottom, but he found his way back through his work by returning to his roots. As a kid, Patrick fell in love with storytelling by studying the work of Joseph Campbell, who urged people to follow their bliss and said every good story is essentially a hero’s journey, which is a metaphor for life. So, Patrick decided to make a film called Finding Joe. It’s dedicated to making Joseph Campbell’s work more accessible to today’s audiences, and in doing so, Patrick found himself again. He turned his life around, repaired his marriage, and created a work far more powerful than he ever imagined. I hope you enjoy my conversation with filmmaker Patrick Solomon. So, Patrick Solomon, it’s great to have you on the show. Welcome.
PATRICK SOLOMON 01:29
Thanks for having me, man.
MARK WRIGHT 01:31
So, we’re gonna talk about the film that you created called Finding Joe. It’s just such a cool film. I was able to see it recently, and I think what’s most interesting to me about your journey, Patrick, is that you’ve figured out how to take some really complex wisdom and make it super simple that we can apply in our lives. So, this is gonna be such, such a fun conversation. I’m glad that you’re here.
PATRICK SOLOMON 01:57
Oh man. Yeah, I love talking about this.
MARK WRIGHT 02:00
So, we’ll get to Finding Joe in just a little bit but first I want to back up and talk about how you got to be the, the person that you are today, Patrick. So, when you were a little kid, you fell in love with storytelling. Take me back to that time, and, and, uh, talk about that.
PATRICK SOLOMON 02:15
When I was in, in high school, particularly, trying to figure it all out right. I just, I didn’t know what I wanted to do, and I was definitely, you know, a troubled teen. Um, and I don’t know what happened. I just really gravitated towards filmmaking, storytelling, yeah but filmmaking too. Like I, I had this high school teacher who really exposed me to films. It was a, it was a film class and we had to make comments about films, and I think he had a lot to do with pushing me in that direction, but I feel like I never really saw that for myself. My dad was a scientist and he’d always pushed me to go in that direction. So, I, at that point in time, I felt, although I enjoyed it, I didn’t really see my myself doing that, but I did, um, discover Joseph Campbell’s work right around that time, and that idea of, um, following your bliss, right? He has this idea of following your bliss, uh, you know, when you follow your bliss doors open and magical things happen, and as a, as a young man, you know, late teens, early twenties, um, that was just a magical thing to me. I was like, whoa, follow your bliss. You could people do that? Like you get paid to do what you want. What, um, it was, it was just this amazing kind of bolt of lightning, and so solely based on listening, like if I hadn’t listened to that, to Campbell say, follow your bliss, I don’t know that I would’ve taken that leap. But I did at some point go, man, I think I can, I’m just gonna do what I love doing, and at that time I was into skateboarding and snowboarding and that kind of stuff and so I just grabbed camera and started filming that kind of stuff, and the work got better and better and um, I got more noticed and it, it was just a, you know, kind of a, this rise to, my, into my career.
MARK WRIGHT 04:10
Yeah. Was that the Bill Moyers PBS?
PATRICK SOLOMON 04:13
The Bill Moyers PBS. Yeah. If you haven’t seen it or if people out there wondering what that is. It’s the Bill Moyer’s interviews that he did with, uh, Joseph Campbell in the late eighties, I believe, and it was at Skywalker Ranch. So, so, uh, George Lucas was a giant Joseph Campbell fan, so he facilitated the whole thing.
MARK WRIGHT 04:32
And for people who don’t know much about Joseph Campbell, how, how would you summarize his, his life and work?
PATRICK SOLOMON 04:37
Oh man, that’s a, that’s a tough one but the quick answer is he was a mythologist, right? So, he studied myths and stories from around the, around the world. That was his jam, and he became famous because, uh, Hollywood picked up his writing. So, he has a whole, um, analysis about why stories look the way they do, right? And he, he was not the first guy to notice that, that the hero in every story from every time period, from every culture, was essentially taking the same journey, but he definitely was the first person to say, why is that? How come that is, and he relates it back to human existence, right? Your life as a human unfolds like a hero’s journey, and it’s just this incredible, um, lock and key thing when, when a human finds the right story, it’s like a lock and key and this light goes off and it’s really magical.
MARK WRIGHT 05:32
And so, spoiler alert for, for our listeners, uh, you are the hero of your own journey, and Patrick is going to help us, uh, find our, our path today. Um, I wanna talk a little bit more about your childhood. Your dad was, uh, of German descent. He was a physicist. Your mother, uh, was of Japanese descent and an artist. Um, and, and I heard you in a different interview say that their ethos rubbed off on you. Tell me what you meant by that.
PATRICK SOLOMON 05:57
Yeah, I feel like, um, I, I can see I got a little bit rubbed off from both of them, right? So, my mom was this artist always doing weird, crazy stuff. I remember one day she, she was at home, and she this, she’s from Japan, right? So, she was playing with this, uh, like, what do you call, like furniture polish or something, right? And she put it on the coffee table, and she did something with her hand. She’s like, oh man, it’s kind of slippery, and then she jumped on the coffee table and slid across it like an otter and she’s like, hey kids, come over here, check this out. So, she was always doing this kind of fun play stuff. She was an artist. I mean, that’s what she did, and dad would, um, dad would come home and set up like scientific experiments and he was, bring home computers and lasers and stuff and um, you know, try to, try to really get us into science. So, I feel like I had the arts and sciences, um, thing in the, they were both, in retrospect, it’s, it’s always easier to see, but, but science is also very creative, right? I didn’t really realize that, but most scientists are extremely creative, right? You have to think outside the box as a scientist. So, um, yeah, I feel like just creativity ran in the, in the household.
MARK WRIGHT 07:13
Yeah, that’s cool. Um, you said that you were bullied as a kid because of your Japanese heritage. I’d love to know what that was like. It must have been horrible, but also how did that shape you? How did it shape you as a person and, and also as an artist?
PATRICK SOLOMON 07:28
Yeah, I feel like that that also was, um, that was kind of a big one, right? Because it took a long time to get over that right? To like shaped me for the first, you know, in my twenties I was extremely, insecure and, um, very ego driven and, and a lot of that had to do with being bullied as a kid and not feeling enough and feeling inferior around other people and not finding, you know, being able to, to speak my truth, right? So it wasn’t until my thirties, until I got over there but yeah, there was definitely some incidents where it was just overt, you know, you’re not good enough to be here, you shouldn’t be here, and that kind of stuff, and then I felt, and because my mother was Japanese too, right. There was some shame around having a Japanese mother and, and then, and I just rejected that culture altogether, which is a total bummer cause I really wish I spoke Japanese today.
MARK WRIGHT 08:21
Yeah. Yeah. I think your experience though is more common than, than we
PATRICK SOLOMON 08:26
It’s, it’s super common now, right? And that’s, I mean, it, it was super common then, but nobody talked about it, right? It was, it wasn’t until my well into my thirties where I started getting validation for who I was, you know, within myself and, and talking to other people about their stories, and I’m like, oh my God, you, you went through the same thing that I did but it took a long time to get there. So, yeah, I mean, there’s an answer to your question that, that early bullying definitely shaped a lot of my decisions early on.
MARK WRIGHT 08:57
So, you got kind of notice you started making films, uh, on kind of extreme sports and you got noticed and you started, uh, getting some attention, and then I’d love to know how that turned into your early career was, uh, you started directing commercials and not just little commercials. It was kind of a big deal.
PATRICK SOLOMON 09:17
Yeah, it was kind of a big deal and I, and I was, it was really great. I mean, I, I started shooting, um, uh, extreme sports films, right? The snowboarding and skateboarding and motocross and that kind of stuff, and, but, but that wasn’t really paying the bills, right? That was, it was kind of paying the bills, but not really. Um, so in the, on the side and in the in between, I would work as a production assistant and somehow, I got on, on bigger, bigger stuff, right? It, I did for films for a while, but then somehow, I got sucked in with this group of people that was doing commercials, right? Commercial work and so after the first year or two, I was just do only doing commercial work, right? So, I had a lot of contacts in that field. So as my work got better, people in on that side of it started noticing and saying, hey, your work’s getting pretty good here, we could probably get you some commercials, right? Um, and that’s what happened. I, I actually partnered with a commercial producer. We, we started a little film production company initially doing extreme sports, but then, um, what, what happened? Th this was kind of a pivotal moment, right? So, the ex, the movie thing wasn’t going that well, and there was no commercial work, and so there was about a month period where me and my partner were like, hey, this, this isn’t gonna work. We should just close the doors or, and, and then you’re gonna, he’s gonna go become a freelance producer and I’ll become a freelance director or DP somewhere. But then, um, somehow, we just lucked into this commercial for Honda Motorcycles, and it was huge. It was a really big commercial. I mean, for, for us it was like the biggest job in I, I can’t remember what the budget was, but it was a few hundred thousand dollars, and that for, you know, for back then, that was like the nineties, that was big for us, and then, and then it just never stopped like then, then we did the next Honda commercial and then we, now we have two commercials. Then somebody at another agency said, hey, you should do some car work, and then that happened, and then man, we were just on a roll. It was, it was really amazing.
MARK WRIGHT 11:34
It was kind of like a rockstar existence. I heard you say in another interview that uh, the lifestyle was like, really kind of surreal, wasn’t it?
PATRICK SOLOLON 11:42
E Exactly. It was surreal, which actually precipitated this like, classic midlife crisis, which we can, we can definitely talk about.
MARK WRIGHT 11:52
Yeah. So, I’d love to know before we get to that, um, what is a typical day like as a commercial, uh, director? Um, and, and this was, this is, we’re talking the glory days of, of television. There was, you know, very little internet back then. It was like TV commercials were TV commercials were it?
PATRICK SOLOMON 12:13
Yeah. I feel like at that, that, at that time it was, um, I mean, it was, it’s hard to describe a typical day because, you know, when you’re in production, it’s different than when you’re in pre-production but it was definitely, um, I mean, it was concentrated work because they’re so short. So, you get into the prep of this thing and you’re scouting locations and a lot of times they’re distance, so you’re getting on a plane to scout a location, and then, um, bringing your pre-production team and you’re prepping the job and lots of, you know, nuts and bolts like uh, very operational level stuff happening as well as, you know, creatively, how are we gonna push this over the finish line, tweaking the script and that kind of thing, and then, and then a work day, you know, a shoot day would be also pretty intense. Like there’s a, because, because there’s a lot of money on the line and, um, those shoots are scheduled, you know, to the minute so, as a, as a director, you have to be a little bit mindful of that. You know, you want your creative vision, you want to get what you want to get, because that’s what we need but you also can’t be, um, irresponsible with the, with the client’s money either and say, hey, we’re gonna shoot for an hour. I know we only, but said we’re gonna be here for 10 minutes. But, so yeah, it was kind of, and intense and fun and just, you know, you’re, using big toys and shooting from helicopters and that like, that kind of experience where there’s just tons of action and fun and quick decision making and that, that was, that’s my jam. I really enjoy being on a, on a film set in that capacity.
MARK WRIGHT 13:47
Yeah, I bet you were good at it too. That must have been cool. So, talk about this, this lifestyle kind of got the best of you at some point, I take it.
PATRICK SOLOMON 13:55
Yeah, definitely. I feel like, and, and this goes back also to you know, just life lessons, but that early childhood experience, right? And not, and being bullied and not really, um, not really understanding that impact on me, right? And then, and then all of a sudden being met with success, it’s almost like because of that bullying, I just didn’t feel like I deserved any of that, right? Like, who am I to deserve this? And then that kind of self-sabotage just happens, right? So, you get a bunch of money and you just blow it and then you get a bunch of success, and, and I was just blowing it. So, it’s your classic, I don’t know how to describe it, just your classic midlife crisis, like whatever you think that is. That’s what it was.
MARK WRIGHT 14:43
Yeah. I think we’ve all gone through, uh, some form of that at various points in our life. Just a series of bad decisions. What, uh, how, how old were you, Patrick, at that time?
PATRICK SOLOMON 14:53
That’s a good question. Like in my thirties. It was like a four year period in my thirties. Yeah. So, it was a young, I mean, I was pretty young to be having that.
MARK WRIGHT 15:02
Yeah. So, take us through how that crisis precipitated and then made you realize, oh man, I really need to do something that actually matters.
PATRICK SOLOMON 15:15
Yeah. That yeah, so this is the thing about, about life and crises and what, especially, you know, after going through several crises now at this point in my life, but the, the thing about crisis is that there’s always a reason for it, right? There’s, there’s, there’s a reason why you’re at the bottom. There’s a, there’s a reason it’s pointing you towards some block to, and it’s also pointing you to some success too. Like, hey, you’re failing because of this reason, figure that out and remove that block and that will shoot you to a higher place, right? It mostly, mostly, not all the time, but mostly those crises, especially self-inflicted ones, work that way. So, this one was, was similar in that, um, at my worst, you know, I’m just, I’m, I’m doing, it’s alcohol and drugs and, um, my marriage is all pretty much done. Um, and, you know, we just had a kid and my kid’s pretty young at that point, I think four our something around there, and, and this had been going on for a few years now, and I, you know, I was just kind of lost and I knew it, I just didn’t know a way, I just didn’t know how to get out of it, and then right in like the worst part of that, I lost both of my parents in inside two weeks of each other. That there was, there was definitely this moment where I’m just, like lying on the floor completely wasted and completely directionless. Um, my, my business partner was like, dude, you’re, you’re a mess man. You, uh, what the hell’s going on here? Like, we’re, we’re losing business as a result of your shenanigans, and, um, and I didn’t, didn’t really care. I’m like, I’m so checked out at that point. Um, so I just didn’t know what to do. You know, I was, I was just in a, in a bad spot, but at, at some point in that darkness that Joseph Campbell’s work was coming up for me, right? And I knew I’d always loved his work. You know, I really, at, at an early age, I just sucked it up and read all the books and got into it, but just, you know, f forgot it over the years, but, but I knew there was something there, and I read a hero with a thousand faces again, and it was just this bright light in my darkness, like, oh my God, that’s what I’m gonna do, I’m gonna make a movie about this, like this is what I, this is it and I told myself, this is gonna be my ladder out of hell. Like I know I’m in hell now and I know I’ve like burned a lot of bridges and pissed off a lot of people, but this is like my redemption song, right? So, I just, I kind of got to work, uh, and immediately, like overnight, no alcohol, no drugs, nothing like, just went, that’s it. Done. Everything’s just done. It, it literally happened overnight, and I went, okay, well how am I gonna get this done, right? And so, I started doing the research and I met, this is the thing about synchronicities too, like there were no synchronicities happening in a, in a midlife crisis. The opposite, right? You know when, when you’re on the right track, you’re meeting all the right people and all the shit’s happening. When you’re on the wrong track, you’re meeting the wrong people and bad shit is happening, and you’re like, you know, you’re on the wrong path when you make bad decisions every day, when you run into the wrong people every day, you’re definitely on, that’s where I was. So, so it just turns around instantly. So, this, I make the decision to do this, um, me and my wife, we stay together, and this was largely her. She fought, she was just like, no, we’re not, no, you’re not breaking up. This isn’t, this ain’t happening and you’re gonna get your shit together and you’re gonna do this. I was like, oh my God, I love you. So, um, uh, so I, I decided to do this film. Um, I’m, I’m still working at this point, right? I didn’t, like, completely destroy my career. I’m, I’m still working, not just not as at a, at a pace that I was, um, but. The first guy I, I find on the internet is this guy Brian Johnson, and, and he says he is in Topanga, which is right up the street, which he thought, he said he was in LA on his website, but it turns out he was in Bali, like Bali. Jesus, man, that’s like a lot of money to get there and it’s a long time and oh God, I don’t know if this is like a commitment, man, but I just went, you know what, like this is the process like you get out there and you just start doing it and something will happen. Whereas if you just sit here, nothing will happen. So, I went to Bali and shot Brian and he, uh, wound up making the cut, but, but more importantly, he said, hey man, you should interview my friend Robin Sharma, who lives in Toronto. Like Toronto, that’s, that’s like the East Coast. Okay, fine I went from Bali to Toronto, and then Robin goes, oh man, you should meet, uh, my friend Deepak Chopra. I was like, okay, cool I’m doing it like I’m on, like the synchronicity, heroes’ journey, like those types of synchronicities just were nonstop. Like nonstop. Like, uh, Mick Fleetwood, just like I had to fund over to my house, he’s, this English guy works in the film business. We’ve worked together before, and, and he goes, oh mate you should interview my uncle, his name is Mick Fleetwood.
MARK WRIGHT 20:33
Have you heard of him?
PATRICK SOLOMON 20:34
He’s, he’s a big Joseph Campbell fan. I was like, what? How do you know Mick Fleetwood is a big Joseph Campbell fan. He said, well, I was having a crisis myself, and he gave me these CDs. Uh, Joseph Campbell recordings to put on the car while I drove around Maui where, where Mick lives, and, uh, and so yeah, that’s how, and I, I went, okay, cool I I’d love to interview him, and so, we did, but basically that just kept happening.
MARK WRIGHT 21:00
So, Patrick, at what point do you realize that you’re actually living the hero’s journey? Because there’s a, a tra, in the trailer for the film Finding Joe. Uh, there’s, there’s, uh, this is in the trailer. I think people wake up to the fact. That they’re the hero of their own life when they’re tired of being the victim of it, and I can’t remember who said that,
PATRICK SOLOMON 21:20
Bob in the film, but Bob said that. Yeah.
MARK WRIGHT 21:22
Okay. So, and, and so, I mean, that’s exactly what’s happening to you at this ti, at this time of rediscovery, right?
PATRICK SOLOMON 21:28
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that it’s, there’s a few different things, right? Like if you’re on the couch doing nothing, you’re definitely not on a journey, right? So, you can start looking at your own life, right? Like if you’re just wallowing around doing nothing, you’re not making phone calls, you’re not sending emails, you’re not in the world of action, then you are what, what you would call in the village. You’re stuck in the village, right? You’re waiting to take your journey or you’re still in hell or whatever, and that can happen several times throughout your life, right? That doesn’t need to be, um, it’s not, it’s not like a one-and-done thing, the hero’s journey. You just, it’s nonstop and it depends on the role you play, it gets complicated after a while, but the simple answer is if you, you can really tell when you’re in action doing something and you’re pursuing a goal. Um, that’s why writers and entrepreneurs really gravitate to this, because, because that’s what happens when you get in action. You start meeting people and when you’re on the right path and you’re really, um, you know, you’re out there pushing it, synchronicities happen and you’re like, oh my God, how, how did I just meet that person that just offered to pay for half of this movie or whatever it is, right? Um, so that, that’s one way, right? And, and another way is it’s, it could be a crisis, right? If you’re out there and nothing’s happening, you could be what you would call in the belly of the beast and/or bad things are happening, which always do happen. Um, you could also say, okay, well, I’m in the night of the, I’m in the dark forest right now, and, um, I’m on my journey, I’m just lost, right? So, there’s also, there’s different, you know, parts of the journey that you rec, gotta recognize as part of the journey. Um, does that make sense?
MARK WRIGHT 23:16
Yeah. So, so Campbell’s definition of The Hero’s Journey is there’s separation, there’s an initiation and then there’s a return, and you look at the, the Star Wars movies and it’s just classic, classic hero’s journey. And, and Campbell said that oftentimes all of this comes after a wakeup call, right?
PATRICK SOLOMON 23:38
Yeah. The, the thing about wake-up calls is that they’re, they’re usually not all the time, but they’re usually pretty harsh, like a midlife crisis or, um, you know, alcoholics experience this when they’re, what you would call rock bottom or a divorce or bankruptcy, big life events that you find horrible are what you would call wake up, wake up calls, right? So, look, for instance, if you take a bankruptcy right? That bankruptcy is telling you that something’s wrong with your finances, right? And if you look at it like that, you can use it as a, as, to remove the block and to spring you forward into better financial awareness. Same thing with your relationship, that divorce happened because something that you did, don’t blame the other person. Something about you is causing this relationship problem. What is it? Right? It’s like a, it’s a wakeup call, hey, wake up and look inside and figure out what’s going on. What’s blocking you from happiness?
MARK WRIGHT 24:46
So, let’s talk about some of the wisdom from the film and this whole structure of, of the hero’s hourney? I guess it starts with answering the call, right? Uh, at the beginning of the journey of the hero is, is faced with something and, and they have to make a decision and am I going to rise to this occasion or am I going to go back and sit on the couch and, and turn my phone off, right?
PATRICK SOLOMON 25:08
Yes. Yeah, that’s so true and, and I, I’m trying to, like, in, in the modern world, right? How does this happen? Right? Because, because the opposite of that, the opposite of answering the call could be, I’m not saying that this is the case, but it could be something like, I went to, I got graduated from high school and I went to college to a place that I didn’t really go because, but I want, my, my parents wanted me to go and then I got this degree that I didn’t like, and now I’m at this job that I didn’t like. Like that could be the opposite of answering the call, right? But but answering the call could be something like, um, I politely told my parents I didn’t wanna do this, and I, I, you know, I got into college, and I went, oh man, I, this sucks for me, and, and I, I realized this wasn’t for me and it was really difficult. Uh, but I told my parents, I just dropped outta college and I wanted to become an artist, right? Whatever that is, right? So, there’s just different ways of answering the call and, and on the extreme ends of answering the call, um, there’s crisis on the, on the other, like the good end of that, there’s a nudge, right? I have a friend, uh, Jason Brownie calls it following the nudges, right? So, in your life, you’re, especially when you’re, when you’re younger, you’re getting nudges about what it is you want to do, right? You, you get into your late teens, your early twenties, you’re like, oh my God, I love whatever, I don’t even know what it, what it is. My, my son right now, for instance, he is, um, he’s always been artistic and creative, but he wants to become a tattoo artist, and as a father, I’m like, that’s, that’s horrible. I don’t want you to be a tattoo artist. That’s like, you know, I view it as this, like low, um, you know, outside of the norms of society thing, right? So, I have this one old school idea of what that is, and so, for him answering the call would be like telling your dad that, hey, man, this is my path. You know that this isn’t your path, and, but he, he’s been getting nudges about what to do and so now he’s starting to pursue that, and, um, he’s paying his own rent, and I’m like, oh my God, you’re on your hero’s journey. Like you’re, you’re answering the call, right? And I think everybody gets those nudges, right? Whether, whatever profession is out there, if, if you want to be a, a lifeguard, a doctor, uh, whatever, whatever it is, you’re definitely getting nudges about what to do. It’s just a matter of do you answer those nudges within yourself, or do you conform to what your parents and society are saying, look, you really ought to do this, son.
MARK WRIGHT 27:58
Yeah, I bet your mom would be happy that he’s pursuing such an artistic idea for a career.
PATRICK SOLOMON 28:05
Yeah. Yeah, she definitely would.
MARK WRIGHT 28:07
That’s cool. When I was, uh, literally flunking out of college, in business school, um, I came to a crisis point, same, same exact thing, Patrick. Um, I was being nudged by horrible grades in, in a discipline that I really didn’t like and, uh, you know, got to the crisis point, had to change my major barely, barely stayed in college, but changed my major to broadcasting and spent 35 years up until a year ago. Um, you know, and I, it didn’t feel like work a day in my life as a, as a journalist.
PATRICK SOLOMON 28:41
Yeah. Perfect example. Perfect example, right? If you had not listened to that thing, if you, if conformity and making other people happy was more important for you, where would you be now?
MARK WRIGHT 28:53
Yeah. Yeah, that is so true. You know, um, part of the hero’s journey, or part of Joseph Campbell’s thinking is, is a statement called, uh, finding your bliss, and I think there’s, you know, as I’ve consumed material in this area. There’s a real debate right now. Some people are really hardcore and they say that’s baloney. You know, to tell people to follow their bliss, uh, because it’ll take them down a path and they won’t make any money and they’ll be disappointed and they’ll be struggling, but then there’s another side, um, and I, I’m, I think I’m closer to this camp, is that if you really go after what you’re passionate about, I’m not saying drop everything and, you know, sell your possessions and move your family into the station wagon and live out of that, but, but when we do follow our bliss, number one, it doesn’t feel like work, and number two, we work way harder than anybody else because we love it.
PATRICK SOLOMON 29:50
Yeah, yeah. It’s so true. So, the, so the debate is real, right? And so out there in, in the world of personal development, you hear a lot of debate, right? So, there’s a, and there’s definitely two sides. Um, and, and I heard this when, when I was touring a movie around, someone would always stand up, during the Q and A and say, hey, I would love to just drop everything and quit my job, but I need money. I need to pay rent, my kids need to go to school, blah, blah, blah, and they’re right. They’re right, you know? So, the, the, the actual truth is it depends on where you are in life, right? If you’re younger and you have parental support, you have way more leeway to take risks and, and follow your bliss. If you’re older and you’ve been conforming your whole life and now, you’re 35 and you had this wake-up moment where you’re like, oh shit, I’m 35, I hate what I do, but I have a kid and a mortgage. Yeah, you definitely have a lot more I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t recommend dropping everything and follow your, following your bliss. So, you really have to take that on a case-by-case basis, and it generally has to do with your age, and, and also, you know, speak directly to someone who’s later in life who’s trying to follow their bliss, it’s important I don’t, I don’t have the answer for you. I wish I did, but it’s, imp, I will say this, as far as an answer goes, it is crazy important to figure it out because you’ve just realized that you’ve been hating what you’re doing. Are you gonna suffer another decade? You’re gonna be dead for sure at some point in your life, you are going to die. Uh, uh, you want to just live until you die the, the way you are now. So yeah, dropping, drop, dropping everything and, uh, going to become a painter is not advisable, but also doing it, whatever you’re doing now and continuing that, that’s also not advisable. So, you should figure something out.
MARK WRIGHT 31:51
Yeah. Yeah, and, and you know, if, if it doesn’t pay the bills, you can, you can have hobbies that still are very, very fulfilling, that allow you that creativity and that fulfillment. You know, even if you’re not doing it full-time.
PATRICK SOLOMON 32:05
Yeah, absolutely. You gotta, you gotta scratch that soul itch or, or, I mean, that’s what, what are we on here? What are we on the planet for?
MARK WRIGHT 32:14
Yeah. Um, you, uh, I, I, I read that the reason that you, you took on this project of Finding Joe not only for personal redemption, but your real calling, and correct me if I’m wrong, but your real calling in life is changing lives, changing other people.
PATRICK SOLOMON 32:31
Yeah. Yeah. I kind of figured that out, uh, I didn’t, I didn’t start out with that mission, but I ended with that mission, right? And so, the, uh, the f so when you talk about the hero’s journey, right? There’s the part of the journey where you go get the gold, the treasure but that’s not the heroic act. The heroic act is bringing it back to the village, right? And so, my, my journey was classic. I went out and I made this film and, and I came back, and I shared with the village. I went here, there’s, look, I made this film everybody. Here’s the treasure. Um, and that was just a real, I don’t know, kind of an eye-opener for me. I went, oh my God, you can make a film that will, I started getting emails and, and um, there was a group of women who watched the film, and they went, they all, there was three women, and they all took turns breaking up with their boyfriends. Yeah.
MARK WRIGHT 33:37
And then you’re thinking about getting unlisted phone number afterwards.
PATRICK SOLOMON 33:39
Right? Right. And then I got, uh, phone calls from three angry men. So, so, uh, but that was another moment where in my journey where I went, oh my God, I could, I could make films like this for the rest of my life. Like, this is, this is great. Like, I want to keep doing this, and, and for a whole bunch of reasons, right? And when you put labels on those, especially when you look at the journey, um, there’s something that I learned in there, right? And that is when you’re on a journey, right? You are the hero, right? But you gotta remember that everyone is the hero of your own journey. So, when you just walk out on, into life and you say to yourself, you got your sword in your hand and your shield in your other hand, like, I’m, I’m my hero. Well, everyone else is out there. Um, and they’re on their, they’re also their, their own heroes, right? So, you’re, it’s a selfish act in, in some ways, right? You’re, you’re working for yourself in some ways, right? And you, you know, find the treasure, you’re gonna bring it back but the journeying part of this thing is selfish act. Um, but the character of Yoda or Gandalf or, you know, pick your, pick your mentor or your um, you’re helping figure, right? That to me, i is what I discovered from this film. Like, that’s what makes me happy and lights me up and be, and, and now so be becoming a hero is, you know, I know, I understand that in some aspects I’m a hero when I’m making a film or when I’m a father. Um, but becoming a mentor or a, you know, a Yoda to someone else, that, that to me is where the magic is lying.
MARK WRIGHT 35:29
I’m curious, uh, Patrick, how all of this, the study of the hero’s journey, creating a film about it, sharing the film, how has all of this prepared you to handle adversity in life? Because when we talked a couple weeks ago, you, you told me that, you know, you had lost your wife to cancer and it was, it was another devastating loss in your life. But it, I, it, but it seems to me that, that you, I don’t wanna sound callous, but you are more prepared now than you ever were to handle. That kind of loss, right?
PATRICK SOLOMON 36:07
Yeah. Um, it’s a, that’s another tough one because, you know, that’s, it was a long, I, I lost her four years ago and…
MARK WRIGHT 36:19
I’m so sorry.
PATRICK SOLOMON 36:20
It was a long, and it was four-year battle, right? We battled for four years, but I think what, what I, my biggest takeaway and, and the thing that I actually learned about becoming more, be becoming the author of your own life, right? You want to become the author of your own life, and that’s what I really learned through the creation of the film and, um, and the ensuing years. Um, and as a result of that, my wife and I, we didn’t miss one minute of life during that, and, and we fought the best losing battle since Thermopolis. We, we went down fighting. She really, she went down fighting.
MARK WRIGHT 37:16
And you had that awareness that every single day, every single minute is important.
PATRICK SOLOMON 37:21
It, it was, and, and that’s the thing is that there was an awareness there. We both knew, I mean, I, it’s tough because at the time I didn’t say, hey, we’re gonna, we’re fighting a losing battle. We just both went, we’re gonna, we’re gonna win this. We’re not, we knew we were gonna win, and so yeah, we just lived every minute, every minute. We didn’t miss a minute of life, and we, and we also fought, like we went, flew everywhere, met every specialist., we did it all. But as a result, there’s no regret. I don’t look back and with, with anything but, um, I’m proud of how we both handled that situation. Like there’s, we did every single thing we could do. I, I, I went in my, in retrospect, I don’t go out, wish we would’ve done this. Wish we would’ve spent more time doing that. We, we did it all.
MARK WRIGHT 38:21
Mm-hmm. I read that, uh, or heard this in another interview that you gave Patrick, that when you’re faced with stuff like that in life, you really have two choices. You can roll over and get steamrolled by this event, or you can stand up and do something about it, and it just strikes me that, that experience and you know, that you had to go through is, is exactly what we have to do almost daily, almost weekly. In, in a much lesser degree, right?
PATRICK SOLOMON 38:52
Yeah. Yeah. It’s true. Like you can definitely look at that, that’s an extreme example of it, but on, on a daily basis, you know, you have to get out of bed, and you have to, you have to do stuff, right? And that, there’s another thing in there about like what we’re talking about are these big ideas, The Hero’s Journey. Uh, becoming the hero of your own life, but it meets the street at some point in action, right? You have to do something in this three-dimensional world. You have to write an email, have a difficult conversation that you don’t want to have in order to get something that you want.
MARK WRIGHT 39:27
Yeah. Um, so what ended up happening, I know that it, you know, getting the film funded, getting it released, getting it distributed was a big learning experience for, for you on a lot of levels. The film exists now, it’s, it’s, it’s out there. How can, what I love about this film is it took a very complicated, a very complicated body of work from Joseph Campbell and it made it really consumable, and I just love how you put the film together and you’ve got kids acting in costumes and it’s just really a playful, fun film, but at the end of the film, it’s like, wow, I get it, I get it. So how, how can people experience the film if they haven’t seen it all over?
PATRICK SOLOMON 40:06
So, yeah, I put for the, for the pandemic, I put it up for free and I just left it there, right? So that was like my gift to the world, I guess. It wasn’t making any mon, money anyway, so it wasn’t that big of a sacrifice. But I did feel like at, at, at, I was just called to it, like the pandemic had, I’m like, let’s, let’s get this message out there.
MARK WRIGHT 40:27
Yeah. So, it’s out. Um, are you still, when uh, when we talked a couple of weeks ago, you said you were working on a film about money. Is that still something that you’re focused on?
PATRICK SOLOMON 40:35
Yeah. Yeah. So, I’m, I’m, uh, I’m currently producing two films. Uh, one about the electric vehicle industry and the coming electrification of the planet, and the other one, um, is about the psychology of money, and this one, this is my favorite, currently my favorite subject to talk about, and it came from Finding Joe. It came from all those people standing up and saying, hey man, I’d love to follow my bliss and just drop, kill, you know, quit my job, but I need money, and really just got me thinking, like, really? That’s, that’s weird. What is, why do we need money? What is money anyway? What is, what is this stuff? And it turns out we just, as humans, we have a relationship with money, which is not really a real thing. It’s when you, when you really look at it, it’s completely made up, but you do have a relationship with it, and because everybody else has a relationship with it, uh, you have to deal with it in, in this three-dimensional world, right? You cannot, you absolutely cannot unless you a 100% hermetic in the woods, and even then you’re not without money. Um, and, and anyway, the film is an exploration about our relationship with money.
MARK WRIGHT 41:57
What a perfect film for what we’re going through. I mean, the banking crisis that we’re, that we’re experiencing right now is just proof that money is nothing more than a shared belief system.
PATRICK SOLOMON 42:08
It’s a shared, exactly.
MARK WRIGHT 42:10
When, you know, when, when enough people stop believing in an institution or in a currency or, you know, in any aspect of this whole system, it doesn’t work, right?
PATRICK SOLOMON 42:21
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can really, you, you, you can, you can really see it happen in markets when markets go up and down, right? And, but but it becomes, the film is more about the personal relationship with it, the meaning that you attach to money and, um, and how money is like the water for fish, right? You’re swimming in it, and you just don’t see it. It affects every single part of your life, and you don’t see it.
MARK WRIGHT 42:52
Wow. What do you hope the takeaway is for, for people who see that film when it’s done?
PATRICK SOLOMON 42:57
Um, I hope the takeaway is I better get it together with money because my life is too short to not.
MARK WRIGHT 43:07
Yeah. Well, that’s something that, I’m sure learning as I get older, I’m trying to teach my boys, uh, they’re 19 and 26, and I wish someone sat me down when I was that age and said, okay, let’s have a, let’s have a talk about how to use money.
PATRICK SOLOMON 43:20
They listen to you at 19 and 26?
MARK WRIGHT 43:23
Yeah. Yeah. Two boys. Yeah, and so, it’s just, and, and money’s one of those things that makes us uncomfortable. So, we don’t want to think about it. We don’t want to deal with it but the people who end up on top are the people who go through that, that discomfort and realize that the earlier you start managing it and not letting it manage you, then the better off you’re gonna be when it, when it time counts.
PATRICK SOLOMON 43:47
That’s, that’s exactly right. Yeah. And there’s a, what you meant, you brought up another point in that the component of time is becoming, um, it’s becoming increasingly a topic of the film, right? That we also have a relationship with time, in a way that we don’t understand.
MARK WRIGHT 44:09
Yeah. Um, uh, just about, just about out of time, Patrick, but I would love to, to get your takeaway, uh, a final takeaway on what you think we should learn from The Hero’s Journey and, and how we should apply that to our lives.
PATRICK SOLOMON 44:26
Uh, uh, let’s see. The, the first one is I would say just in terms of crises, right? Because everyone has a crisis, big or small. Um, and if you’re experiencing a crisis and you look at it through the map of the hero’s journey, it’s always, you know, one dragon battle, right? If you could use that metaphor, that’s gonna make you stronger and get you ready for the next one that’s inevitably coming, right? When you look at it like that, it takes the power away from the crisis a little bit, right? It really makes you go, oh, this is how life is for everyone, and so just when you, when you do, when you’ve never done it before, right? Or you’re really young, it’s, it’s more difficult, but as you get older, and you’re gonna have to take it from me, if you’re listening to this, is that, there’s this faith in the process that, that happens, right? And the reason why older people generally are better equipped to deal with crisis like that is cause they’ve gone through it, they’ve survived. So, they have faith in the process that you don’t, that they didn’t have when they were younger or didn’t have the experience, right? Experience gives you faith in the hero’s journey, faith that the crisis you’re currently going through is gonna make you stronger for the next crisis.
MARK WRIGHT 45:42
I have a brother who lost a wife to cancer and on the, I was just floored by how he showed up through that whole process, how he was so strong and had young kids at the time, and, and, uh, you know, on the back end of that, I asked him, I said, how, how did you get through that? He said, he said, I just got through it. I just decided I was gonna get through it, and he said the thing that on the backside of that, he said, now he said, he said, what’s life gonna do to me that I can’t handle? You know, what are people gonna do to me that I can’t handle? He said, I can handle anything now. He said,
PATRICK SOLOMON 46:26
It’s so, it’s so true. I, I feel those exact emotions sometimes, like, I think I’ve said those exact words. Yeah, you really, when, when, when you get through, uh, a crisis like that, it really gives you some kind of um, I don’t know. It, it’s, it’s strength, but it’s also, uh, grace, I guess.
MARK WRIGHT 46:49
Yeah. As I look at you, Patrick, and just listen to you, it just, uh, you know, I think the struggles that you had in your marriage and, and the redemption that you found in your marriage, I think that’s, that is just so inspiring to me that you, you know, you, you realized you were broken as many of us do at, at points in our lives, and you didn’t stay broken, and I, that’s what I think is so incredibly cool about your story is that you didn’t stay broken. You, you committed to, to becoming a better version of yourself and, and, uh, and now life is, is your oyster.
PATRICK SOLOMON 47:23
Life is, and, and also just to add to that, right? Um, you, you never stop journeying, right? Even at I’m 55 now. Um, and yeah, I’m definitely more equipped now emotionally to deal with challenges, but you never stop journeying. You know, you’re always, always until you die.
MARK WRIGHT 47:44
Wow. One final thing, I just would love to, to know if you have any, if you had some advice for, for a younger version of yourself, what, what would that advice be?
PATRICK SOLOMON 47:57
Oh, man. Yeah. I really wish I would’ve dealt with the trauma early. I wish I would’ve just admitted to myself a lot earlier that I wasn’t okay. I wish in my twenties I would’ve said to myself, hey man, there’s something wrong here. You’re not, well, you should get some help, right? I, I wish I would’ve done that a a lot earlier in life.
MARK WRIGHT 48:30
The trauma of bullying and, and all that stuff, right?
PATRICK SOLOMON 48:33
Yeah, exactly. Just the, all, all that stuff there was, there was by not addressing it earlier, it came out later, right?
MARK WRIGHT 48:44
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Patrick, it’s been such an honor to talk with you and, uh, it’s gonna be fun to watch what you create next. Um, so I’d love to stay in touch and, uh, and watch that unfold, and I’ve certainly learned so much from you and, uh, about The Hero’s Journey and, and it’s so profound when you start talking about there’s a reason that these themes recur and that Joseph Campbell figured that out because The Hero’s Journey is life and it’s what all of us are living, and he just put words on it, right?
PATRICK SOLOMON 49:18
Exactly The hero’s journey is the human journey.
MARK WRIGHT 49:20
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORK P2P family. New episodes drop every Monday, and if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING. Where we are winning the game of work.
