Katie Leclerc knew she wanted a career in entertainment from the very first time she set foot on stage in a high school production of Annie. What she didn’t know then was how radically the entertainment industry would change in the two decades that followed.
Katie is best known for playing Daphne Vasquez, a deaf character on the TV show “Switched at Birth,” which ran for six seasons on ABC Family.
She now co-hosts a successful podcast, “The Brett Davern Show,” with actor Brett Davern.
We invited Katie to be on BEATS WORKING to learn how she has evolved as an entertainer and her secret to success. Despite her incredible career, what impressed us most about Katie is how she has responded to life’s challenges and how she and her family created their own opportunities.
Her life hasn’t been all roses. She’s lived with a hearing disorder called Meniere’s disease, and as a teenager, Katie was bullied so badly that her parents moved the family to another state. But that’s when the doors started opening for her in the entertainment industry.
This raw but delightful conversation between Katie and host Mark Wright is genuine and full of laughs. Like the title of our podcast, BEATS WORKING, this interview absolutely did not feel like work for anyone. We hope you enjoy and learn something from this conversation with Katie Leclerc.
Resources from the episode:
- Follow Katie Leclerc on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.
- Do you TikTok? So does Katie! Follow her here.
- Listen to new episodes of “The Brett Davern Show” every Monday on idobi Radio.
- Connect with Katie on LinkedIn.
Share Article on Social Media
Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Katie Leclerc and Mark Wright
KATIE LECLERC 00:01
And my dad sent a fruit basket to the room with a card that said, define the moment, don’t let the moment define you. And that’s the, that’s the crux of all of it. Just, just do what you’re going to do and be who you’re going to be at the end of it. Don’t let the circumstances change you. You know who you are. You got me to cry, Mark! Good job!
MARK WRIGHT 00:32
I was about, I could make some crass joke about news reporters, but I but it took me, it took me 64 minutes. I’m losing my touch. I’m kidding. I am kidding. That was terrible.
KATIE LECLERC 00:55
I love it. I love it. Oh, it’s great.
MARK WRIGHT 01:06
This is the BEATS WORKING show. We’re on a mission to redeem work – the word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to BEATS WORKING, Winning the Game of Work. On the show today, actress and podcaster Katie Leclerc. Katie knew she wanted a career in entertainment from the very first time she set foot on stage in a high school production of Annie. What she didn’t know then is how radically the entertainment industry would change in the two decades that followed. Katie is best known for playing Daphne Vasquez, a deaf character on the TV show Switched at Birth. which ran for six seasons on ABC Family. She now co-hosts a successful podcast with actor Brett Davern. The reason I wanted Katie to be on the show is to learn how she’s evolved as an entertainer and what her secret to success is. What I learned? And I know this sounds cliché, but it’s how Katie responded to challenges in her life, and how she and her family created their own opportunities. It wasn’t all roses. Katie has struggled with a hearing disorder called Meniere’s disease. And as a teenager, Katie was bullied so badly, her parents moved the family to another state. But that’s when the doors started opening for Katie in the entertainment industry. I’ll tell you, this interview was just a delight. It’s raw, it’s real, there’s laughing and crying, and by the way, Katie has one of the most contagious laughs I’ve ever heard. I dare you not to laugh when Katie laughs. And like the title of our podcast, BEATS WORKING, this interview absolutely did not feel like work. I hope you enjoy and learn something from my conversation with Katie Leclerc. Well, Katie Leclerc, it’s so great to have you on the BEATS WORKING podcast. I’ve been so looking forward to this because if people have not met you, and I had the pleasure last week of meeting you for the first time, you are literally a human beam of sunshine.
KATIE LECLERC 03:12
Why, thank you. That’s the best compliment I’ve ever gotten.
MARK WRIGHT 03:16
And you have the best laugh that I’ve ever heard. When I first just listened to the podcast that you’re on with Brett Davern. I was just like, okay, that laugh alone would make me want to listen to this for hours. It’s awesome.
KATIE LECLERC 03:29
Thank you. I appreciate that.
MARK WRIGHT 03:30
Well, this is so fun, Katie, you’re the first person from the entertainment industry that we have had on the BEATS WORKING podcast. I think this is going to be so cool because, um, the entertainment industry is really a unique industry in terms of just the balance of, of fame and work and the intersection of, you know, causes and making a difference in the world. And I think it’s just a super interesting, uh, career choice. And I’m so excited to learn more about you and your career and how you’re redeeming work as an entertainer.
KATIE LECLERC 04:02
Thanks. Yeah. I think, uh, there’s a lot of opportunity for redemption in the entertainment industry, but there’s a lot of opportunity for corruption too.
MARK WRIGHT 04:11
There’s a lot of good and there’s a lot of bad. I want to go back. I always like to start. You know, in childhood, because I think a lot of who we are today starts then. Um, and I was intrigued to find out that your parents have, have been involved in restaurants for your entire life. And I’m just wondering, did you first start working for your parents in the restaurant as a little kid?
KATIE LECLERC 04:32
Um, I, you know, I didn’t, I did work in the restaurant, but not until my 20s. My dad just was an entrepreneur in the most true way possible. He just started business sort of everywhere. So, when I was growing up, he was more in the dotcom, but my mom took a job at the local Indian Health Council that was just down the road from where I grew up in San Diego, uh, where I went to high school in San Diego and I did work with her there. So yes, I do think all of it comes full circle and, and creates sort of the person that we become later in life. Um, we ran a drama program at the charter school that the health council had put together there. So, so all the kids that went there were part of just different tribes in the area. And then, um, we did a show called Bang, Bang, You’re Dead, which was a play about a school shooting. That’s like really impactful and really, um, made a big difference in my life. And so, uh, my mom got recruited to help teach this drama program because I was an actor and, uh, and it was really cool. It was really meaningful part of my life as well.
MARK WRIGHT 05:41
And you spent part of your childhood in Colorado. Was that about the time of Columbine, too?
KATIE LECLERC 05:46
It was, yeah. I was in sixth grade when Columbine happened.
MARK WRIGHT 05:50
Wow. Um, when we talked last week, Katie, you said that you moved from Colorado because of a bullying situation, or at least in large part. If you’re comfortable talking about that, I think it’s important to understand that as part of an important part of your life. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
KATIE LECLERC 06:06
Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, I grew up, I mean, I grew up just like kind of normal. Um, I grew up Mormon and, uh, just one day I was part of my community and sort of included in the community. And then, um, uh, one of the gals, uh, boyfriend’s older brother was friends with my older brother. And so, her boyfriend spent a lot of time at my place, and she got jealous and really decided to, um, make my life not awesome. And I, I got really depressed, um, I hated going to school, I didn’t really know who I was, and I didn’t really like who I was. Um, that year I got to play Annie in my school production of Annie, which I think has a lot to do with why I became an actor as well. I had the opportunity to sort of pretend to be something I wasn’t at a time where I didn’t feel like I could be who I was. It gave me a great escape. It, it gave me a place to be creative and a community to be embraced by and, um, yeah, and, and eventually the bullying did get so bad and it got severe and, um, we went to the school, we went to the church and nobody could really come up with any solutions and so my incredibly wonderful supportive parents, uh, got me out of a really bad situation by moving our entire family to Southern California. Uh, we moved to San Diego, uh, just outside in one of the suburbs at first. And I walked up to my high school drama teacher who would become my greatest mentor and said, uh, you know what, actually, I was just in a school production, and I was pretty good. So, I don’t think I should be in drama one. I think I should be in drama two. So simultaneously I, I lost all the confidence in who I was as a person, but really knew that I could be something else. And, uh, yeah, I, I told my drama teacher, I want to, I want to be in the next level up. And he was like, well, I guess you should be, if you’re going to tell me that. So, he believed in me and gave me a lot of really good opportunities and gave me a lot of confidence and kind of showed me how to be myself, uh, and get to pretend to be other people at the same time. And he was, he was a really big part of my life.
MARK WRIGHT 08:29
That’s a really interesting story that at a really young age that you had to deal with something so significant, uh, as that type of bullying, but it’s also so refreshing to hear that your parents were so enlightened that they realized that we just, we’ve got to fix this and fixed it.
KATIE LECLERC 08:46
Yeah, and we’re so proactive in doing so, too. You know, I think, it was, it was bad, Mark. It was like, really not great. Uh, so, they, they, but they trusted me and trusted that, like, I couldn’t handle it, and I was telling, you know, they, it was, it was just part of a family uh, choice, you know.
MARK WRIGHT 09:07
So, uh, so Annie, that was your foray into the entertainment world. I want you to take me back to that, that moment that you’re on stage and what feelings you had as you were Annie on stage.
KATIE LECLERC 09:21
It was sort of quiet and loud at the same time, like I found some quiet in myself. But I was, I was getting applause from strangers. That when you’re on stage too, you can’t really see. There’s, there’s such bright lights and, you know, I was, I was young and, and I was so sick of that song, the Tomorrow song. Oh, I could just spit, but I was elated. It was like so many different feelings and I think maybe that’s, like, the cocktail of that is the, the juice, that’s the juice, like, that, that that thing that you’re chasing the whole time is, is that overwhelming rush of just so many feelings at the same time. Proud of yourself that you did something so hard, like, you know, part of your team, that you were all part of that collaboration, um. Yeah, it’s just, it’s everything. I, I love theater. I love theater so much. I miss theater. Um, and, and I think that part of that is that instant reaction from the audience. You know if you’re funny, you know if that joke landed, and you know if it didn’t. And uh, I, I kind of, uh, feed off of that, that, uh, conversation that the performer is having with the audience. I love, love, love, love, love that. Obviously, you know, I love being on TV sets and film sets and stuff as well, but there’s nothing quite like that, like real, real-time communication.
MARK WRIGHT 10:47
How did you go from that performance, uh, on Annie to, uh, deciding that, uh, I want to become an actress, uh, you know, in, in a big-time way. And, and by the way, when you mentioned the Pepsi commercial that you were in, I went, I went and found it on YouTube. Pepsi loves hot dog. That is one of the most adorable commercials. And I think I actually remember that from back in the day because it’s such a touching moment. Sweet spot. How did you get from this? Like, hey, I’m on, uh, on the stage at a school production and then, oh man, I’ve got an agent. I’m, I’m making money. Take me through. How did you get that?
KATIE LECLERC 11:22
My, my, my dad? Uh, like I said earlier in the, in the show, he, he was a, he is an entrepreneur and, and started all these different businesses, his, his lifestyle, his, his mantra for his life. He’s, he’s got a couple of really good gems. He’s good at the one-liners that he’s given me. And, and this one is always true. And he said he was It’s too stupid to know he could fail. And so, I tend to go into life, Mark, with this blind confidence of like, yeah, it’s gonna be fine. And maybe it’s not, and maybe I have to tap dance, but like, I’ll figure it out. You know what I mean? Like, I, I’m, I am, I am stupid, but I, I am not stupid. That’s stupid enough to think that I, I’m going to fall on my face. You know what I mean? Um, so that’s, that’s definitely a gift that he gave to me. And so, after telling my drama teacher that I was too good for him, I told my parents that, I mean that joke, I love, love, love that man. I told my parents that, um, I heard an ad on the radio and, and it said, do you want to be an actor? You can audition for Disney and Nickelodeon, whatever. And it was for John Robert Powers. I told my parents I wanted to go be a John Robert Powers student. I did. I competed in a giant acting competition called IMTA. I got my commercial agent there, and I got my manager there, and I could not get a theatrical agent. Luckily, my parents are crazy people. And then Mark, my mom got bonded with the state and started a theatrical agency because I could not get a theatrical agent. And so, she worked in the office underneath the same office as my manager. And we stuffed envelopes and submitted on breakdown services and, and gave, you know, packages to mail carriers to trek around town to give to different casting directors. And so, I got to see that side of the business as well, which is really amazing that I have an appreciation for how hard the agents work and I also know how hard they don’t as well. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know, it’s the full spectrum of the whole thing. So, so yeah, I, I just one day heard a radio ad and said, hey mom, I want to go do that. Um, and we were still in San Diego at the time, and I was still in high school at the time. I was 15 when I booked my first commercial, which is the Pepsi commercial, and you know, they, they ran the crap out of that thing. I think it was even a Super Bowl commercial maybe like it was a big commercial. So, it was just really cool. And I went from being really unpopular to being pretty popular. It’s weird how being on TV, you know sort of made the kids be nicer and then I got to be on John Robert, I’m sorry on, on Veronica Mars the TV show Veronica Mars which shot in San Diego, uh, and, and for that, my folks allowed me to invite my entire senior class. Uh, everybody come on over, and we had a big viewing party for my four lines in the whole episode. Uh, but it was a big, giant, you know, party, and I, I just, I think that I can attribute so much of my success in my career to the undying support of my parents. That’s the, the key thing here.
MARK WRIGHT 14:30
That, and your parents are like, well, let’s just start an agency, or well, let’s just fix that.
KATIE LECLERC 14:36
And we’re very fortunate, right, that we’ve, you know, my dad has the business acumen to know that, like, that’s even a possibility, I guess? Like, I don’t really, he’s just a, he’s just a guy who’s gonna try, and I love it, you know?
MARK WRIGHT 14:50
That’s awesome. Um, I remember interviewing Sean Astin one time, and he said the best advice his mother, Patty Duke, gave him, uh, as, as an actor, he said it was really simple. She said, um, show up on time, hit your mark, and know your lines. And I’m just wondering, in the early part of your career, um, I’m guessing that you, you really got a pretty quick education of, of what to do and what not to do if you want to get employed again.
KATIE LECLERC 15:15
Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. And, and, uh, the added benefit of my parents never had to argue with me about grades. I had to get a work permit. I was 15. You know what I mean? Like if you want to, if you, if you’re motivated enough to go get a job on set, you gotta have at least good enough grades to get, you know, so that made the part of the conversation easier. There’s been plenty of times where I didn’t know my lines when I showed up to set and you know, oh, well, oh, like it’s hairy. It gets diced. And you get it’s so embarrassing and then you don’t do it again because you go. Oh, I don’t want to feel that way. So that is one thing that like thank you for saying that I’m a bright ray of sunshine I try to be, and I feel like that’s sort of my superpower is on set I, I love being the North Star for the rest of the cast as somebody to be like, hey, are you having a rough day? Like, I’ll go run lines with you and we’ll get through this together because you know what? Sometimes I’m gonna need that too, you know what I mean? But I love being able to be a solid, reliable person on set. So, so yes, I’ve shown up, uh, you know, late or, or whatever. Oh gosh, trying to keep it to a minimum. Oh, it’s such a terrible feeling.
MARK WRIGHT 16:32
But isn’t that, isn’t that just, just a great parallel to life? I mean, don’t you want, we all want to be remembered as that person who was really fun to be around and who was always supportive and wasn’t backstabbing and, and just that person who cared, you know, and, and on a set like that, you’re right. There’s a lot of stress. The stakes are pretty high. The shooting schedule can get, you know, pretty crazy. But, but, you know, if, if you’re the star and you’re freaking out, it really sets the tone for everybody else, doesn’t it?
KATIE LECLERC 17:01
And I’ve been on sets where that was the case, right? So, so you’ve seen. Hopefully, you learn by other people’s examples as well. You don’t have to be the person creating the scene to learn from the, the, you know, fallout from that. So.
MARK WRIGHT 17:15
Yeah, when I worked in Utah as a, as a news anchor, uh, we got to know a casting agent and, uh, she said, hey, if you guys are interested in, uh, it was part of a morning show. Um, three of my co-anchors all went on to KTLA in Los Angeles and, uh, Megan Henderson is still there on KTLA. I just adore Megan. She’s fantastic. But anyway, we got to this casting agent, there’s a friend in Utah. And so we got cast in some movies. So Salma Hayek was, uh, directing her first film called The Maldonado Miracle and they needed some newscasters in, in the show and my friend Megan had a recurring part throughout the movie and I had a, I had one scene with Peter Fonda and the premise of the film was there’s a miracle that took, took place in a, in a small border town and, and Peter Fonda played the role of a priest. And so, we’re all interrogating, you know, Peter Fonda about the quote-unquote miracle. And, uh, that was my first, you know, really eye-opening, uh, experience with the movie industry. And I have such a new appreciation for what people like you can do because it’s a lot of hurry up and wait. Like, it took 45 minutes just to set up the camera for our shot and it was on a on a circular dolly, so it was obscuring his face and going around and around and guess who was on the camera? Mike Lookinland, Bobby Brady from the Brady Bunch, who’s a cinematographer now. I know, who would have thought? and so I’m sitting there thinking, what in the world am I doing here? I don’t belong here. But it was the most fun experience, but holy cow, what it looks like on the screen, what you do and, and the work that it takes to get to that point. That is such a huge, huge difference. We have this romantic idea that, oh, you just run around and give your lines, but it’s, it’s work, isn’t it?
KATIE LECLERC 18:57
It is. And some sets are more work than others, uh, as well, right? I, it’s the best job in the world. You know, it’s, it’s a job. It is still a job at the end of the day. It is a job that I, you know, have a, I have a unique set of skills. Uh, no, it’s, it’s a, you know, I’m grateful for it and I’m so lucky that I have been able to make a career in this industry. I, I, really, it’s amazing. Um, but yeah, sometimes it is work and sometimes it feels like you’re just playing. Um, Switched at Birth was just a playground for six years. We were so lucky to be able to have an incredible cast of ridiculously talented actors and be telling a story with a message that we were all rallied behind and really supported. That was like, the dream.
MARK WRIGHT 19:50
Your character played, you played a character who was deaf and so you signed and your sister I guess from way back was an American Sign Language teacher.
KATIE LECLERC 20:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was an American Sign Language teacher.
MARK WRIGHT 20:05
That’s, that’s wild and, and I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Meniere’s disease which is a disease that affects your hearing. That gave you sort of, I guess, an empathy or an awareness to be able to play that character. So, tell me about that.
KATIE LECLERC 20:21
Yeah, that’s right. So, Meniere’s disease is a genetic disease that affects fluid retention in the inner ear. Um, people can experience vertigo, tinnitus. Uh, hearing loss, fluctuating hearing loss and all kinds of other symptoms that are just sort of like, just makes you feel crappy, you know, like that’s the big, big, big symptom and it can lead to chronic depression and, and it’s weird because it’s very, very difficult to diagnose and, and it’s just one of those that you just kind of go, huh, what is that? And so, um, it’s, it’s genetic in my family and I don’t experience symptoms as severely as my sister does. Uh, and, uh, you know, it, it, it created a, my sister being an ASL teacher, created this, you know, curiosity in me, and I learned American Sign Language in high school, was later diagnosed with Meniere’s disease, and I’m also like keenly aware that in 2023, I wouldn’t have the opportunity to play the role of Daphne Vasquez. I don’t live my life as a deaf individual in the way that casting in 2023 would require. I’m also, like, it jump-started my career, and holy cow, I’m so grateful for that show, and the message that it had, and, and, and creating this even conversation about Meniere’s disease, and the awareness that we’ve been able to, to create, and the conversations that we’ve been able to have along the way. Um, yeah, so, so that’s Meniere’s disease.
MARK WRIGHT 21:49
Which doesn’t sound like a lot of fun, but is that why your sister got good at sign language? Because of that? Or no?
KATIE LECLERC 21:54
No, she just, she learned it beforehand. She, she just had a curiosity as well. And, um, yeah, it just sort of turned out that way. And then later in life, Mark, I sort of accidentally adopted a deaf dog. I adopted a dog, and three days later was like this dog is deaf. I’m going to show playing a deaf teenager at the same like, what is going on? So, weird coincidences and I, I just, I really feel like, you know, my involvement in that show was so, something so special for me. Like, I have so much gratitude for that show, and for Lizzy Weiss, the creator, and, and for all of the actors. I got to meet Marlene Matlin, like, I was such a big fan of hers, like, an icon. I was, my hand was shaking when I met her. I mean, it was just the greatest. It was the greatest. And Luke Graybeal, who I’m, like, still friends with, but oh my gosh, I was such a fangirl for High School Musical at the time. Like, in so many ways, in in so many layers, it was just the perfect timing, the perfect job, and it was, it was the best.
MARK WRIGHT 22:53
What do you think was the secret to that show’s success? Because six years is a pretty good run.
KATIE LECLERC 22:59
I think it was the trust that the network put into us. Um, our first season is 33, 32, I think it’s 32 episodes long. And I think it’s the second to last episode, I think it’s called Sound Off or something like that. There’s an episode that is primarily of the 45-minute episodes, uh, the length of the episode, uh, like 39 minutes are sign language only. And if an actor has a scene that is dialogue only, it is closed captioned at the bottom of the screen. So, so we were doing it before it was cool, Mark. This was like 10 years ago, you know what I mean? So, and there’s been shows that have done that since, um, Only Murders in the Buildings. All these different shows, but it was just, like, they let us be artsy. Do you know what I mean? Like, they let us take risks like that, and they let us have these, like, sort of fantastical episodes where, you know, there’s one episode where it’s like a dance episode. Like, what? Like, it’s almost like a fantasy show in some ways. There was another episode, uh, where, we pretended as if, what would happen if the switch never happened. So, during the duration of the show, my character spoke with an accent. But on that episode, Daphne got a cochlear implant early on. So, Katie, the actor, got to use my normal speaking voice. And it was interesting for audiences to be like, wait, she doesn’t sound like that? Like, wait, what? So, they just let us sort of, um, they trusted in, in all of us. And I think that was really the difference maker for our show.
MARK WRIGHT 24:27
Yeah, and for a network to take chances, that’s pretty rare, you know, to have one of the major networks, ABC, to do that. Um, so take me through, what was a typical day like when you were in production of that show for six years? I mean, what was a typical day like?
KATIE LECLERC 24:40
Yeah, we would wake up real early and, um, you know, I would wake up at like five o’clock in the morning, jump in the car, you go through hair and makeup. You know, we would do like seven to nine pages per day, which is, on a production, that’s kind of a lot of work in one day. We had a really tight crew. Um, people were just really efficient. People were really on their stuff. There really wasn’t very much drama either, which is so rare. Um, I think that part of that is attributed to Vanessa Morano, uh, who played the other switched girl, uh, very, very, very, very early on. We both looked at each other and we went, I’m so glad you’re not crazy.
MARK WRIGHT 25:23
Because that would have been a long six years.
KATIE LECLERC 25:25
That’s exactly right. The, the dynamic between her and I, we just clicked, and we totally just understood each other right from the beginning. I was at her house over the weekend like we are still incredibly close friends, and you know we live five minutes from each other, we see each other all the time, so it’s really special and really great that we didn’t bicker or have any like infighting with each other and I think that that just made for a really familial environment where everybody was just super supportive of each other.
MARK WRIGHT 25:56
Yeah, on television news sets, you know, it’s, it’s like an arranged marriage. You never have a choice of who, who you’re sitting next to, and you just need to make it work like a marriage. It’s like, we’re going to make this work and let’s work through whatever we have to work through. Cause viewers aren’t dumb. They can see if, if you don’t have true chemistry with someone. So that’s cool. I’d love, I’d love your perspective on the actors in the writer’s strike. Um, because boy, the industry, you started about 20 years ago in the industry and the industry, just because, well, technology has changed everything about our society and especially when it comes to the entertainment industry. And when we talked last week, Katie, you said something that really stuck with me. And that was, I miss, no, you said I miss, no, you said I miss appointment television. And it made me think, yeah, back in the day, we would all watch our favorite show. And then the next morning we’d either go to school or work and say, oh my gosh, did you guys see that last night? And you could talk through the show and, and it, it kind of brought us closer as a society and, and that we don’t have that anymore, do we?
KATIE LECLERC 26:58
I don’t think so, no. I think shows are trying, or networks are trying to do it a little bit, but I just think that the streamers have just changed the way that we consume entertainment. Um, you know, are, are you watching? Uh, right now I’m watching The Bear, right? On, on Hulu. Free shout-out. Hey, casting directors, when this writer’s strike is over, put me on it. Uh, anyway, uh, so like, are you, hey, are you watching The Bear? Oh yeah, it’s so good, it’s so good. Oh, I’m on episode two. Well, that’s the end of the conversation. Because now I, great, I know the whole story. You know, that’s exactly what I mean. And it’s funny because my friends, I have a couple friends that are like, weirded out by this, but I’m, uh, I live my life, um, unafraid of spoilers. If we are in a conversation, Mark, and you are watching a TV show, and I have not yet watched that TV show, and you want to talk about it, I want to hear every single detail that you want to share. I am here for the spoilers. I am here for all of it. I want to be in the conversation with you that is far more interesting to me than, oh, I really want to watch that!
MARK WRIGHT 28:06
That’s a great attribute for a friend. I love that.
KATIE LECLERC 28:09
I just, like, well, what do you, I haven’t seen it yet, but what do you want to tell me about it, right? And I don’t care about that. Like, genuinely, I don’t care about, you could tell me they die. I don’t care. I want to have the conversation with my friend in the moment. And I just, I think that that is the result of, like, not really having this appointment. Viewing television experience where we can all be like, OH MY GOSH! Like, I miss that feeling so much that I just want you to tell me the spoiler. Because I just want to have like the oh my gosh experience with my friend.
MARK WRIGHT 28:39
Yeah, so streaming and, uh, technology, I mean, that’s having such a huge impact on how this content is distributed. And I guess that’s part of what, what the strike is all about. Um, and when we spoke last week, um, it was really interesting. You know, I asked you. Are we living through the golden age of television right now, because you mentioned The Bear, um, you mentioned Only Murders in the Building, which is a fantastic show, I love that show. But we have so many shows now, but at what cost? Because I’ve started thinking about, you know, right now I can dial up on my phone any song ever recorded in the history of the world. And it doesn’t, it costs me nine bucks a month. And the, the artist is getting a fraction of a fraction of a penny when I play it. So I guess I wanted to ask you your perspective as someone in the industry, you know, we have a lot of choices as viewers now but, but what’s what does it look like from the from the content creators standpoint?
KATIE LECLERC 29:38
I don’t It’s just so hard right now I mean, I like you said I’ve been in this business for 20 years and I’ve seen this business change so much, I’ve also changed so much. I remember when we first started and it was you know, like a guest star top of show or like a, like a, like, the first paycheck I ever got from a TV show was $900, and I was like, man, this is so much money. But, like, you just think about, they’re still making money on my $900 appearance. Still, especially in the age of streamers, like, Veronica Mars had a reboot and a TV show, like, and a movie, like, they’re still profiting off of those five words, or those five sentences that I said when I was 19. I don’t, I get a six-cent check in the mail, like, and, and that’s fine, because that’s where I was in my career at the time, but like, now, it’s not even just about the conversation about the six cents. Not the movie, the check that I receive in the mail, right? You’re with me? It’s not even about the conversation about the residuals, because we can have that conversation, and that is a valid conversation, and I am here for that.
MARK WRIGHT 30:57
By the way, Bruce Willis was dead the whole time in that movie.
KATIE LECLERC 31:00
Oh, what?
MARK WRIGHT 31:02
The spoiler alert. I’m sorry. That was inappropriate.
KATIE LECLERC 31:06
But was it a great ending? Because that’s what I’m hearing. You know what I mean? Like, yeah.
MARK WRIGHT 31:11
That was crazy. So, I guess where do you think things are going to shake out in terms of, you know, the creators and the owners? And, um, I mean, it’s never been easier to create content. That’s the good news. The bad news is, I mean, it’s super easy to distribute. That’s, that’s great news. But the downside is, is just making an actual living and and compensating the people who deserve to be compensated. That’s getting harder.
KATIE LECLERC 31:35
And because it’s easier to make content. It’s also a lot of it is bad. A lot of it you know, I mean? It’s made by on your cell phone and made to be consumed on your cell phone. Well, let’s get back to like the good stuff. Let’s get back to the the art, let’s get back to camera moves and, and, and long shots. You know, I mean? Like let’s, let’s, let’s be creative with it. Like, I understand that you can put your iPhone on a jib. Let’s do that and put a prime lens up and know our line. And be professionals, right? This is an industry we want to take seriously. So, let’s not just like slap together schlock and call it art, cause it’s not. I’m sorry, now this is on my soapbox. I’m just saying, like, we, we have to fight for our likeness as actors especially right now because they, the, the so much of the audience will just consume crap because that’s what they’re given. And so, we have to fight as the artists to make sure that it is not crap that we are putting out there. And to make sure that there is integrity and there is a soul and that it is not just artificial intelligence and, and we are paying our actors and our creators and our union lighting guy to make sure that it looks good and the sound guy and the right. They’re so, my favorite part about this business is that it takes so many different people to be good at their job to make something that is awesome. And I just want to make and be part of things that are awesome and that’s what I think people should be consuming. So, so stop watching stuff on your cell phones and get back into the movie theaters and I, it’s just, it’s, but, but not right now, because the strike is on, and, oh my gosh, Mark, what, what are we supposed to do? It’s this weird world that we live in, where, like, you feel like you’re constantly contradicting yourself, so you just have to make the best choice at the time, I guess, but, just try to be more elevated? I do think, I will say, it’s not necessarily the golden age of television, I don’t think, but, Mark, we’re in a good spot, because I do think it’s the golden age of podcasts.
MARK WRIGHT 33:33
I would agree. I would agree. And I, I love, I mean, the first podcast that I started listening to, I think was Rich Roll. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Rich. He’s a, he’s a guy in, uh, in California and he’s a, an extreme ultra-athlete. Uh, he’s a recovery guy, which resonates with me. He’s, uh, he’s like a vegan guy and just his, his whole thing. Rich Roll is just to, to make life better, to make Take people to the next level and right before the pandemic shut everything down, he had, uh, his first live event at a theater in Beverly Hills. And I said, okay, you know, I’m going to fly down and see Rich and, uh, just fantastic content, but you’re right because it allows people to just have that conversation, that thoughtful gathering that actually makes us better people if we let it, right? So, let’s talk about your podcast. It’s almost like, it’s almost like you’re on a news show because Monday through Friday you’re live on the radio, which, that then gets repurposed as a podcast. Did you and Brett Davern, did you guys start that as a reaction to the pandemic or was this going before the pandemic?
KATIE LECLERC 34:44
Brett Davern started the Brett Davern show in 2016. So, he was even doing it before I came on. I came on in 2017. They had already had like over 100 episodes. And now at this point, we’ve had Nearly 2, 000 episodes, so we’ve surpassed that first hundred rather quickly. We’ve been at this for a minute, and doing that five-days-a-week show, you know, you start racking up numbers pretty quickly. Um, it’s a, it’s great. It’s a really fun show. It’s called The Brett Davern Show featuring Katie LeClerc and like you said, Mark, it streams live on AdobeLiveRadio.Com or on the Adobe Radio App. Uh, five days a week, 9 AM to 10 AM Pacific time, and then, uh, is available podcast. We’re now on Twitch. We have a YouTube page. We’re doing, we’re doing that thing. uh, and I’m really excited about that show. I, I think that we, it’s great. I get to have an hour of improv every morning with my best friend. We talk about current events. We have sometimes celebrity guests come on and we just play silly games. Uh, and then the other two shows that we do full-time are, Two Seattle sports-based podcasts. One is about the Seattle Kraken and the other is about the Seattle Seahawks. And so that is a company that Brett and I, um, that’s under the umbrella of Nice Guy Digital, which is Brett and I’s company. Uh, and we have these shows, uh, about the sports teams, but we also use those shows as an opportunity to do a lot of fundraising in the local Seattle area and that’s been so, so fun. When the pandemic happened, we fully, fully went into our sports shows, but our morning show was already kind of off and running before that.
MARK WRIGHT 36:25
Wow. So, give me an example of, of, you know, you guys have been raising some money, um, through those, uh, podcasts. Uh, tell me, tell me a little bit more about that. That sounds really cool.
KATIE LECLERC 36:35
Our, our hockey show is called “Release the Show, Release the Kraken.” Ha ha. Uh, and then our Seahawks show is called “Take 12,” and “Take 12” has been hosted by Lofa Tatupu for the last two seasons. There was one season where Brett did it on his own, but Lofa Tatupu, who was a captain of the defense that the year they went to the, to the Super Bowl. Um, and he’s sort of a beloved member of the Seattle community in his own right. He does so much community outreach and he’s definitely a pillar of, if you’re a Seahawks fan, you probably know Lofa’s name, and you probably know what a good person he is for his community members. So, with that in mind, it became very easy to sort of do fundraisers at bars where I would just go up to people and say, hey, do you like podcasts? Do you like the Seahawks? Here, listen to our show. In the meantime, we’re also raising money for such and such organization, and we’re selling raffle tickets. Simply Seattle came on really early as a good sponsor, and they donated tons and tons of merchandise that we repurposed into, uh, all these different organizations. And then my favorite one that we did, Mark, we went to Germany last season, uh, we sold travel packages for listeners of our show to be able to travel to Germany with Lofa Tatupu and KJ Wright and four other former Seahawks. So, it was like the trip of a lifetime to be able to travel with these guys. And then while we were there, we did an event at Starbucks and Starbucks donated 1,000 to Treehouse for Kids, which is an organization we really like to support in the Seattle area that helps foster youth. And, um, so yeah, it was, it’s been great cause sometimes we earn money five dollars at a time, and sometimes we earn money thousands at a time. Uh, but regardless, we’re, we’re able to really, um, on our show as well, uh, have different organizations come guest on our show and talk about their different causes as well. Um and then like this weekend, like literally Mark, as soon as I hang up with you, I’m flying to Seattle cause there’s a golf tournament for Fisher House that we’re doing. And then Brett is emceeing the Seattle Youth Hockey Assist Golf Tournament. So, we’ve kind of got our hands all over the place in the Seattle area. Um, and we’re trying to just do as much good as we possibly, possibly can.
MARK WRIGHT 38:55
That’s awesome. Um, I’m sure you and Brett have learned a ton about the business side of podcasting. Um, what advice can you give somebody like me who’s just getting into the podcast business? Turn and run?
KATIE LECLERC 39:11
Oh no, I, I mean, I think the thing is like with everything in life, can you, can you, can you have fun doing it? And can you do a little bit of good while you’re doing it? You’ll be successful. Like you said earlier, like, sometimes you just have to figure out how to make things work, and if you can crack the code to that just a little bit and have fun while you’re doing it, that’s the way to create an audience. Your passion creates excitement in your listener, and that’s the main goal, right?
MARK WRIGHT 39:40
Yeah. Um, speaking of podcasts, uh, during the pandemic, um, I listened to “Smartless.” I don’t know if you listened to that one, which Jason Bateman and Will Arnett and Sean Hayes, those three guys just started, they wanted to just see each other during the pandemic. So, they said, let’s start a podcast. And it seems like I’m reading through the lines here. They’ve gone on a national tour. They’ve got a merchandise line and it they’ve alluded to, they’ve said it kind of hinted that this is probably going to be the most lucrative thing that they’ve ever done. Um, because they have millions and millions, and you and Brett have a ton of followers. These guys have just they and it speaks to what you just said they, they were just doing it because they wanted to have fun and hang out with each other and now it’s just blown up.
KATIE LECLERC 40:31
For somebody who’s wanting to start a podcast too different than an acting career. Like if you’re listening to this and you’re like, I want to start a podcast. Just do it. It is not hard to start. It is not hard to start, buy a $150 microphone off of Jeff Bezos’s evil website, and then you’re set. That’s all you need. You need a, you need a $12 RSS feed, and you’re done. You just start talking and the best part about.
MARK WRIGHT 40:57
We’ll put a link to that, that website in the show notes.
KATIE LECLERC 41:01
I don’t want to say it. I don’t want to say it. Um, um.
MARK WRIGHT 41:06
So, tell us how you really feel, Katie.
KATIE LECLERC 41:10
But, but you, but you just start, right? That’s the beauty, I think, of podcasts, where it’s different than mediums of a different sort. Your audience will grow with you, and they don’t expect your show on day one to sound like your show is gonna sound like on your 200th episode. The, the beauty of, of podcasts is your audience wants to grow with you, and that organic growth of like those three dudes who just wanted to see each other, and they put it out there for seven people to listen, turn into 7 million because it starts with just the little nugget. It – don’t overcomplicate it. And I think that people often tend to do that specifically in the world of podcasting. Just start recording your voice and putting it on the internet. And then just see what happens. You’ll figure it out along the way.
MARK WRIGHT 41:55
Do you and Brett ever look back and say, hmm, what worked? And what didn’t? What can we improve? Or do you just let it go? Let it go into the ether?
KATIE LECLERC 42:04
The “Brett Davern Show” is a freight train. It just goes, and it’s sort of on, uh, a lot of times it’s on autopilot just because, like, with.
MARK WRIGHT 42:14
And I noticed that Brett, it starts sometimes mid-thought with Brett. It’s like, is this the start of the show? What’s what he’s talking about?
KATIE LECLERC 42:23
Isn’t he such a great host though, Mark? That’s the beauty of this business. Well, but he, especially really, and with our sports shows, really, especially like his personality is so charismatic and he’s just a great business partner because, um, because mostly because I trust him. Because he’ll start mid-sentence and, and that’s not, like, that’s not he’s been talking and the microphone’s turned on in the middle of the thought. No, no, no, no, no. The, the, the whole thing has started in the middle and so half the time I’m just sitting there kind of going like okay where’s he at? Where’s he at? I have to find him and then and then we’ll start to play on the show but like it’s, it’s fun. It’s you know, he keeps me on my toes and that’s, that’s the fun of it.
MARK WRIGHT 43:07
Didn’t one episode, he’s like, so we should get rid of Mondays, and you know, I think and I’m like what where is he going with this? But it all works out.
KATIE LECLERC 43:16
It does! It does. It’s a really fun show. He’s like, lately he’s like, how do we define this show? And the best we’ve come up with is, nobody knows how to define it, but if you listen to one, you’ll listen to another one.
MARK WRIGHT 43:29
Do you guys have merchandise too? Have you gotten into that?
KATIE LECLERC 43:31
We do!
MARK WRIGHT 43:33
Whoa, nice shirt. Oh, and nice logo, too.
KATIE LECLERC 43:39
That’s a happy accident. I swear I didn’t do that on purpose. Yeah, yeah, um, it’s uh, teespring.com/brettdavernshow, um, or /releasetheshow, or /take12, or, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s hard because we have all these we have all these different shows and we’re excited about all of them, but it’s funny because, like I said, like the Brett Daven show kind of just runs itself with the current events and, um, games and we have interns and every few months we get a fresh batch of interns and that always keeps it interesting and, and then, and then the sports shows are really full time active when the sports seasons are going. Um, so we’re, we’re really gearing up for Seahawks season, uh, and, um, the, I think the weird thing about being in the podcast world is you’re always living like six weeks in the future. So, my brain is in like September right now. And so like, I’m like, oh yeah, it’s, we’re about to have a, we’re at Seahawks versus Rams next week. No, it’s that’s in six weeks. Okay. Great. Great.
MARK WRIGHT 44:44
That’s awesome. Hey, uh, before I forget, you have a Christmas movie coming out this year. Tell me about it. Cause I’m a sucker for those Hallmark Christmas movies, you know.
KATIE LECLERC 44:56
I love, oh that’s so great to hear, thank you. Somebody’s gotta keep us alive. I know it’s funny, like the more, the more the crazier the world gets, the more we need those just like, I know what this is, I don’t have to think too hard. Uh, and this is one of those with a twist. Um, so we shot it under the title Letters to Chris. We’ll see if that hat remains the title, because sometimes they change. Um, but the idea is that, um, two little kids go see Santa Claus, and Santa gives them a pen, that if they write Santa a letter with this magic pen, and their wish is true of heart, that their wish will come true. Um, the first thing that they ask for is like a puppy, and you know, toys, and stuff like that. And then they realize along the way that what they really should be wishing for is for their parents to get back together. Um, so it’s a really cool way to tell a story that seems familiar. It’s not one of those Hallmark movies or Lifetime Christmas movies where it’s like girl meets boy and oh, are they going to make it? This one is stakes are higher than that. There’s already two kids in this world who want mom and dad to be together, and mom and dad want to be together. So, they just have to figure out how to make it work. And I think that that’s a really familiar, really modern way to tell a really cute story that we all kind of are looking for.
MARK WRIGHT 46:17
Ah, that sounds sweet. Are you, uh, is it dedicated to a release? Uh, in terms of a cable channel or where, where can we find it?
KATIE LECLERC 46:58
We’re, it’s still being, uh, sold so it doesn’t, um, I’m not sure if it’s, you know, but it, it will be out this Christmas, I can say that. Um, and it also stars Rafael de La Fuente who is on the, uh, dynasty remake that just, uh, finished on CW. He was amazing to work with. He was just, he was a dream. He really, it was. We had such great chemistry and, um, the story is also told with the backdrop of a family restaurant, a family Mexican restaurant, and my family has a Chinese restaurant, and so there was a lot of, um, just very, like, touching things for me to experience. Like, I know, I know that family. I am part of that family. So, it was, it was really cool to be able to portray that and, and get to tell that story.
MARK WRIGHT 47:13
Ah, that sounds cool. Katie, what haven’t you done in your career that you want to do?
KATIE LECLERC 47:18
I would like to direct. I would like to direct. Um. It scares me, and so I think that I should probably do it.
MARK WRIGHT 47:28
That’s awesome. It sounds like such an overwhelming proposition, but it, you know, there are tons of actors who’ve gone into directing who absolutely love it. Do you have a genre that you’re,, a favorite genre?
KATIE LECLERC 47:41
I, I, uh, I mean comedy. I want to make comedies. I want to make people laugh. I, I got so good at crying, Mark. I got so good at, on Switched at Birth, at crying. That one time Vanessa and I challenged each other. Uh, one of the characters, spoiler, somebody dies, alright? So, we had seven days of filming an episode where we’re just crying. Nonstop crying for twelve hours a day, it was so much. If you’re an actor, the secret to that is drink a whole lot of water ahead of time, and you over-hydrate your body, and then the tears fly out of your eyes a whole lot easier.
MARK WRIGHT 48:17
And do you have to think about something sad, or what was your, how did you get to the point of being able to cry?
KATIE LECLERC 48:22
See, this is the thing, Mark is, I just became a robot because I did it so much! My character was a weepy gal. And so, I cried every episode.
MARK WRIGHT 48:32
So, you just could do it.
KATIE LECLERC 48:33
So, I just, like, figured out, like, the physical mechanism to be like, okay, I’m crying. Uh, and so did my co-star, Vanessa Morano, so during one episode, uh, we were bored, and it was, that day it was a job more than, you know, whatever. And so, and so she’s like, alright, fourth line, second word, right eye. And so, the challenge was by that character’s fourth line on their second word, can you make, not, not, it has to fall, and you, if you got something on your left eye first, then you don’t win. It has to fall on the second word. I am a robot.
MARK WRIGHT 49:13
I feel like if I could cry on command, I would, I would abuse it. Like I’d go in, and like if I had terrible service at a restaurant, I would just burst into tears. And so, then they would give me a free meal or something like that. That sounds dangerous. That’s awesome.
KATIE LECLERC 49:34
It’s, it’s something. It’s maybe a little, it’s, yeah, it’s a little, maybe I should go see a therapist. Uh, but that being said, I think I did so much drama. I’ve done so much drama and, and grateful to do so, but I want, I love making people laugh. That’s just such a, oh, that just fills my whole soul. That goes back to the, like, theater thing, that, like, that instant reaction, you know what I mean? The, I don’t know, I just, I love that. I love that feeling.
MARK WRIGHT 50:03
So, the name of our podcast BEATS WORKING winning the game of work. We’re on a mission to redeem work. You know to make work better for everyone. I’d love to I’d love to hear from you Katie. What? Uhm what that means to you? I mean, I’ve heard you talk about giving back I’ve heard you talking about, you know setting a good example, but what does redeemed work look like in the entertainment industry to you?
KATIE LECLERC 50:25
I guess I have a question to answer. Like does that I, I, maybe this is bad. Maybe I’m like looking for the right answer here, but like, is it ready in your mind? Is it redeeming? Is it meant to be redeeming to myself or is it meant to be redeeming for other people?
MARK WRIGHT 50:28
Yes. Yes. And yes. Yeah, because you know, you talked about how Hollywood has changed. I mean back in the old days Hollywood would have people Um portray Native Americans and they were absolutely Caucasian people and it’s like what in the world Hollywood has evolved I think, and it needs It needs to continue to evolve, but just the idea of honoring humanity, you know, and, and, and making the world a better place. Um, it just seems like, and I, I think you’ve, you said, you know, I heard you on another interview talk about how your outlook on stardom and how to use the power of celebrity has changed over the years. And I feel like you feel like you’re more comfortable in your skin now to say and do things that maybe you wouldn’t 20 years ago.
KATIE LECLERC 51:27
Yeah, that’s for sure. That’s for sure. I feel like, um, I, I, I feel like we should all find heroes in our everyday life. My hero was my drama teacher. He really was he was he, he showed me how to be an artist and how to have integrity as an artist. Um, I will be forever grateful for that and for that foundation and baseline of this is how to work hard and this is why it’s important to work hard. We are giving voice as storytellers to important stories, uh, that people might not otherwise hear. And, and that could be from, um, Neil Simon play, or that could be from, you know, um, Stranger Things on Netflix. If somebody is able to sort of find identification in the character that you are playing, and maybe this goes back to my Annie days, if you are able to identify something in yourself, the story that you were watching and that somehow makes it better for you, then I want to be part of that. I want to be part of making the world a better place because, not because somebody found an escape, because I think that people, uh, sort of callously refer to this industry as escapism. I don’t think it is. I think it’s inspirational. And I think that if somebody who’s having a hard time can see another character or identify with a story and somebody’s having a hard time and they see them get through that, then it gives them the hope that maybe they can too. Um, or, or, give them a different perspective on how to look at something that they can’t get out of. But now they can appreciate it differently or, or approach it differently because of a story that was made up out of somebody’s brain. Um, and hopefully not from a computer. Uh, that, that is the redemption, I think. I think that, um, I think that then beyond that, if, if people don’t have, uh, heroes in their own life that they can look up to. They can, I, Mark, I hate the superhero movies. I like, I am not a consumer of them. They’re not for me, but they are heroes. They’re examples of a good, you know, Captain America is saving the little kid because, you know, it’s just the right thing to do. Um, and I, like, I don’t even like those movies, but if that’s what somebody’s getting out of those movies, then, okay, I guess we should make the 78th version of that story that we’ve all seen, but, but I’m here for it, you know? Like, but let’s try to tell it in a different way, like, into the spiderweb, Spiderverse. Uh, the, the one that just came out was like, yes, I’ve seen the Spider-Man story, but I’ve never seen it like this. Like, that is art, you know? So, I’m, I’m here for the art, and if you’re gonna give me the same story, just give me it in a different way. Um, it’s also redeeming for me because, like, anybody who’s done service work or work in their community knows that it benefits themselves. It does. You go, you know, I, I’ve had the opportunity to, to speak at different high schools and give, um, speeches about bullying and my own experience and, and how I was able to find out who I was and start to like who I was. Um, I’ve also been able to, um, you know, go to the Marlton School of the Deaf, uh, like when Switched at Birth was at its peak and, you know, just show a bunch of kids, like, you know, like, yeah, you can be on TV too someday, you know, like it’s, you can just be a normal person and still be successful in this industry. Um, that’s what I try to do, you know, sort of most of all, I try to live my life in that way of like, yeah, I, I shop at the grocery store. You do too, right? We’re, we’re the same, right? Like it’s, it’s okay.
MARK WRIGHT 55:18
Oh yeah. Absolutely. Um, as we wrap things up, Katie, I’d love to just touch on just two, two final things. I love the fact that you’ve figured out how to stay relevant in a really, really challenging industry. I mean, to get one gig as an actor or actress is, is just crazy. Um, but what do you think the key is to your success? To, to, to stay relevant, to stay employed, to, to stay happy?
KATIE LECLERC 55:47
Mmm. I think that the key to, for me, the key to my success has been, um, adaptability. I’ve never felt like I forced myself to be one thing. Um, I, I, I will, you know, like, it’s, my joke is like, oh, people go like, oh, you’re an actor. Oh, have you been in anything? And my immediate response is, are you hiring? I just want to work. I just want to work. And, and sometimes maybe that’s to my own detriment that like the quality of the projects isn’t, that’s why I’m so passionate about how much crap there is out there. I’ve been in some of that crap. Um, and that’s fine with me because I’ve been working. You know, and, and my philosophy is, work begets work. I want to be in this industry. As long as I want to be in this industry, I want to be working on it and as hard on it as I can be. Um, Brett, this is a Brett ism, but he’s, he talks about how we’re in the business of show business. And it doesn’t have to be the same show every time. You know, Frank Sinatra would go croon in a room full of 30 people and then go be in Guys and Dolls. You know what I mean? Like, are you, like, let’s put on a show. Let’s, let’s just entertain, you know, uh, I’m lucky to have made my career in that.
MARK WRIGHT 57:13
What’s the most important thing you learned from your parents?
KATIE LECLERC 57:18
Right before, this is another one of those one-liner gems that my dad gave me, right before that big giant acting competition, before I had done anything in my career, I was in New York City and competing against, you know, like 6,000 other people were at this convention. That wasn’t my category, but there was like so many people. It was a sea of people. And my dad sent a fruit basket to the room with a card that said, define the moment, don’t let the moment define you. And that’s the, that’s the crux of all of it. Just, just do what you’re gonna do. And be who you’re gonna be at the end of it. Don’t let the circumstances change you. You know who you are. You got me a cry mark! Good job!
MARK WRIGHT 58:13
I was about, I could make some crass joke about cheese reporters. But it took me, it took me 64 minutes. I’m losing my touch. I’m kidding. I am kidding! That was terrible.
KATIE LECLERC 58:36
I love it. I love it. Oh, it’s great. Yeah. Anyway,
MARK WRIGHT 58:44
Well, like I said at the be, of you, we’re good. Okay. Like I said at the beginning, Katie Leclerc is a beam of human sunshine, and you have an open invitation to drop in and say hi to the, uh, WORKP2P gang, that pro that produces this podcast, and my boss Dan Rogers, who is literally on a mission to redeem work and change the world. So, um, I think you’re doing it, and it’s just, you’re making the world a better place by just simply who you are. And, uh, keep that up. Keep it up.
KATIE LECLERC 59:14
Thank you, Mark. It’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
MARK WRIGHT 59:18
You bet. Hope to see you soon. Take care. I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P family. New episodes drop every Monday. And if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING, where we are winning the game of work.
