These days, it’s common for parents to push their kids to excel in sports and play at the highest possible level, but in doing so, they sometimes lose the forest for the trees. They are so focused on the outcome that they sometimes forget that sports can teach kids so many valuable life lessons. And, let’s face it, most will not turn pro.
Philadelphia native Vince Malts knew at 16 years old that he had what it took to play professional hockey. At a Philadelphia Flyers game, he turned to his dad and said, “I could be out there!”
Vince was selected in the NHL draft and played professionally in the minor leagues for years. While he never got called up to the big leagues, he developed an extraordinary understanding of the mental side of the game. He went on to become the first mindset coach in the NHL, and today, he and his wife own Bloodline Hockey, a company dedicated to developing young athletes.
“My conversation with Vince was so rich,” said host Mark Wright. “It’s loaded with advice for parents and coaches, but I think the biggest takeaway is that there’s no secret to becoming a professional athlete. Vince says that in hockey and in life, you will become what you were meant to be.”
Resources from the episode:
- Meet Vince and get to know him here.
- Learn more about Bloodline Hockey and its mental conditioning programs here.
- Follow Vince on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.
- Connect with Vince Malts on LinkedIn.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Vince Malts and Mark Wright
VINCE MALTS 00:01
How can I make this life feel easier for those I lead? Because if I can recognize that pattern and I can find a way to flow with that energy, it’s incredible what that gives back to you as a leader, the credibility, what it does to the ecosystem, right to everybody around you. So, it’s just finding that source. How can I help you to just make it feel easier for you? And you’ll find the irony is it makes it so much easier for yourself as well. And that’s the beautiful part about it.
MARK WRIGHT 00:40
This is The BEATS WORKING Show. We’re on a mission to redeem work – the word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to BEATS WORKING, winning the game of work. On the show this week, becoming your best self through athletics. You know, as parents, a lot of us have pushed our kids to excel in sports and play at the highest possible level. But in doing so, I think sometimes we lose the forest for the trees. We’re so focused on the outcome of making it to that next level that we sometimes lose sight of all the valuable life lessons that sports can teach our kids. My guest this week is an expert at developing athletes at the highest level. As a 16-year-old hockey player, the light for Vinny Maltz went on. So, he’s sitting there in the stands at a Philadelphia Flyers game and he turns to his dad and he says, I could be out there and his dad’s like, yeah, yeah, just watch the game. But Vinny knew at that moment he was good enough to play professionally. So, he got drafted into the NHL and he played in the minor leagues for a number of years, but he never got called up to the bigs. But over that time, he developed an extraordinary understanding of the game, especially the mental side of hockey. Vinny became the first mindset coach in the National Hockey League. Today, he and his wife own a business dedicated to developing young athletes. My conversation with Vinny is so rich. It’s loaded with advice for parents and coaches, but I think the biggest takeaway is that there’s no secret to becoming a professional athlete. Vinny says, in hockey, just like in life, you will become what you were meant to be. Isn’t that wise? You’ll become what you were meant to be. He says there’s no rigging the system. So, Vinny’s advice, pay attention to who you are at your core, pay attention to your strengths and weaknesses, and never forget to enjoy the ride. Coach Vinny Malts, welcome to the BEATS WORKING podcast. It’s great to have you here.
VINCE MALTS 02:47
Uh, thank you, Mark. Great to be here.
MARK WRIGHT 02:50
All right. So, this is going to be a fun, uh, time because I want to know more about your playing days in hockey. I want to know more about how… hockey translates to real life. And I just love the mindset teaching and coaching that you’re doing right now in terms of developing young players and what you’ve learned over the years is just uh is going to be really fun to explore because I think I think athletics. You probably would agree have evolved exponentially since your playing days and in a good way in a good way. So, this is gonna be fun.
VINCE MALTS 03:24
Yeah, absolutely. Massively evolved in a big way. So, this will be a good time to dive into for sure.
MARK WRIGHT 03:31
Well, Coach Vinny, let’s start with your, I want to know what your earliest memory is of hockey. How far back can you go?
VINCE MALTS 03:38
So, this was a crazy one. So, I can still remember my first goal ever. So, I was about, uh, seven, just turned seven a little bit after. And, uh, played the season, you know, I was playing the little, whatever it was, U8 mites, it’s called in-hockey. And I can still remember barely knowing how to skate and move and all that. And it’s at this rink called Old York Road. I don’t believe it’s around anymore. But, uh, you know, here I am on the boards, get the puck, and I put it on net. And I just remember being on the left side of the ice, top of the circle, on the boards. I put the puck towards the net and it kind of gets stuck between the goalie’s skate and the post and I could still see a kind of just messing around with moving, moving, trying to, I guess, save it and boom, referee just goes goal. So, I just turn around and I start going nuts, run to the bench, freaking out, just going bananas. And, uh, it’s so crazy to think like, yeah, I could still remember my first goal ever. And it was the last game of the season, which was even crazier. So that was, uh, that’s, that’s a fun memory to think back.
MARK WRIGHT 04:55
Isn’t that funny how I mean, that’s, that’s an amazing thing that your brain has burned that amazing memory into your, into your memory banks and how many years later that that feeling and, and you know that positivity and the excitement, um, is still there, isn’t it?
VINCE MALTS 05:14
Yeah, it’s, it’s unbelievable. I mean, that’s, that’s life, right? Like it’s interesting of, when you think about just connecting the dots of moments and you know what leads up to those key moments and you just live life that way, where it’s you look back and like, wow, I can still remember that moment there. But then the narrative and the story that’s behind it, right? And how you just kind of keep collecting these moments throughout your life. And like you said, it’s you can remember the ones that were yeah, like that, where it’s like, oh, they felt so good. And you can remember the ones that felt so bad. And then everything in between is just kind of like space. It’s just, just live.
MARK WRIGHT 05:56
I think, um, you know, I’ve met a number of competitive athletes over the years. And I think, I think it’s safe to say that athletes at that level don’t love to win so much as they hate losing. Was that the, was that the case for you?
VINCE MALTS 06:12
Yeah, big time. It’s funny you bring it up of like, you know, it’s been proven too, right, in economics and loss aversion. Like, at the end of the day, it’s, it’s a fun question that you always ask athletes or anybody, especially in the interview process when they’re, when you’re going to scout them or draft them or any of these types of things. And I always love how that question, well, which one? You know, do you hate to lose or love to win? And it actually turns out that most human beings hate to lose more than they love to win. It’s like a natural just part of who we are. But yeah, it’s definitely the, you need to win a lot more a lot greater to offset the loss feeling, right? Because as a as a competitor, it’s just naturally embedded in I think any high performer that that strives at that level, you innately have something as a warrior, as a human being that just strives for that excellence. There’s just something definitely, innately wired in that type of human being that is definitely different. No doubt about it.
MARK WRIGHT 07:17
So as you look back, Vinny, on your hockey career, was there a point when you were a kid that you realized that you had a special ability, or had, that you knew that hockey was going to be your path?
VINCE MALTS 07:29
Yeah, great question. So, at a Flyers game, of course, you know, watching and, uh, we’re sitting about, my dad got really good tickets behind the visitor’s net. And we’re sitting there and I just remember I was about 16 at the time. And, you know, playing, doing my thing, all these fun things. And here we are sitting and watching, 9th, 10th, 11th row, behind the net. And I’ll never forget sitting there with him, we’re watching the game, and the game is going, going. And just suddenly I turn around to my dad and I go, I can play out there. And, you know, I just look at him like I can be out there and he’s like, you know, so it’s, he’s got the Russian accent and I said, okay, sure, sure you can. Of course, you can. I’m like, no, no, no, I can. I can play it. Okay, good, good, good. Okay, relax, relax, watch the game. And I just remember having that feeling inside of like, whoa, like, I actually believe I can be out there. And that was my first moment of, where I just could remember reflecting back and go like, oh, it’s a possibility. And it was crazy. It was just a random, I’d gone to games before, never felt sense that before. But suddenly out of nowhere felt that and then, you know, steps after that, it happened pretty quickly and moved forward. But it was, that was a pretty interesting moment to say the least.
MARK WRIGHT 08:56
That’s really interesting that you, you had that, that thought, um, and I love the exchange with your dad, shut up and watch the game.
VINCE MALTS 09:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Okay. Okay. Okay. Pretty sure I had some popcorn. He’s like, yeah, eat your popcorn.
MARK WRIGHT 09:13
But I remember being, uh, you know, when I just got out of college, uh, in broadcasting and I spent 35 years in, in TV and radio news. And I remember a time when I hadn’t had the opportunity yet, but I knew I could do it. I just knew, I just said to myself, if I could just get someone to believe in me and just get the opportunity. And, uh, at that moment it was like the, it was almost as if the pressure came off. And I could just focus, and relax on, just trying to get that opportunity. And it eventually happened and, and, you know, it just led to an amazing, amazing career. In your, in your experience though, I love, I mean to get what I think a lot of us don’t appreciate Vinny is that you got drafted by, uh, you know, a big-time hockey organization, Vancouver Canucks, just to get drafted. I mean, just to get to that point is, is you’re like one in like, I don’t know what the odds are, but it’s, it’s like almost, almost impossible. So, take me through that, um, your early part of your career and what that was like, what you learned, what the life lessons you learned, and I’m guessing there were some times that probably didn’t feel so good either.
VINCE MALTS 10:24
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it’s funny, right? It was, um, I mean, a roller coaster, right? Here I am. I’ll never forget sitting in the arena in Buffalo and I’m just sitting there waiting for my name to be called. And, you know, my mom’s asked me a couple of times. I want to go to the bathroom and I’m like, I am not moving from this chair at all. So, I’m just sitting in the arena sitting in my seat waiting, you know, fourth round goes by fifth round. I’m kind of sitting there now. It’s like the nerves kicking in. Sixth round. I’m like, we’re out of here. If it doesn’t happen this round, we’re out of here. So just the emotions of it and just recalling that into then finally once name was called and I’ll just never forget. It felt like, you know, Dumbo with the ears where literally I don’t remember going from my seat to the table where I just felt like I floated like it was like I remember hugging my parents but then once I started moving towards the actual table and going to the team It was just like you just floated there. Like it was just like a blank space of like wow and how quickly it happened to then literally four or five months later to start the beginning of next season and to have an injury, you know, to the ankle that literally ended that season, it was just such a wild, like, whoa, moment of to go from like, this is amazing, holy cow. Like the way I always explain it. If you, if you pull it apart, it’s like literally, it’s like jumping out of a plane. And if you’ve ever gone skydiving, anyone can appreciate that feeling of when you’re about to jump out, it’s like, holy cow, sensory overload. And it’s like, this is insane. And you’re, ah, you’re screaming. And then when it opens up, it’s the most peaceful feeling that you’ve ever had. And it just, whoa, okay, everything’s fine. And it’s almost like, kind of like, that’s what happened except almost like reverse ish of like, it was like this feeling of like, whoa, this is amazing, okay. It’s open. Peace. Like, ah, it’s there to that. Whoa. What just happened? And this is insane. And yeah, like that was, you know, that was what led to the journey of getting into the mindset piece for sure was to go spending your life completely committed. And I, and I don’t like using the term sacrifice anymore because as I’ve gotten older, I’ve, I’ve realized at the time it were, there was no sacrifice. It’s what I wanted to do, when you’re younger. I always find it interesting when people talk about the greats and all that stuff. And it’s like, nah, I don’t buy into the sacrifice part of, I know as an athlete, like. It was, this is what I wanted. It’s, I understood there was a sacrifice for those around me, but definitely that part. So, you know, everything that went into that process to that point, and to have, you know, earned the right to be there, to then how quickly it changed and shifted, and to not have been equipped on, what to do now that I’m injured. And at the time, sports medicine wasn’t, I mean, there was no such thing as sports medicine. So, in the, in that context like that, or I didn’t have the resources of, you know, just being able to get there to that, even, you know, with the NHL, right, they didn’t have those types of people that were like, okay, that really knew what to do with an athlete injuring their ankle. And to then just go through that next part of the journey of figuring out, okay, how did I used to perform? What was that all about? What was it like? You know, how do I get back to that feeling again? I just, I used to have it, but I didn’t know how I got it. And that was just, um, from a life lesson perspective was, um, an amazing, um, experience and lifetime journey to continue to keep on going through that’s led me to ultimately my life’s work that was definitely a fascinating adventure to go through and still is to have experienced something like that.
MARK WRIGHT 14:21
So, where all did you play Vinny, in terms of your hockey career?
VINCE MALTS 14:25
Yeah, so ended up, uh, play basically, uh, was a Little Rock, Arkansas was there, Charlotte Checkers, uh, Bakersfield Condors, like all these different places, basically through like ECHL, IHL, all of that. So, there was about a solid 9, 10 years of through the minors, trying to find my way, figure it out, trying to get my way back to the top and all the fun stuff. And yeah, it was, uh, it was quite a journey.
MARK WRIGHT 14:53
Yeah. So, did you ever get, uh, did you ever get called up to, to major league hockey? And I forgive me if I’m.
VINCE MALTS 14:59
No, no, no NHL wise. No, no, no NHL games.
MARK WRIGHT 15:02
So, what kept you going all those years? That’s what I would love to know.
VINCE MALTS 15:06
Yeah, just, uh, you know, it’s funny, right? It’s a combination of I knowing that that was my dream for so long. That was my childhood dream of what I wanted so badly, right? To then the other part is, probably a lot of ego of I know I can do it. I just I had this belief of I want it so badly and I know I can do it. If I just figure this out, if I just figure this out. And so that’s what probably kept me going for a really long time was how much it was the inquisitive nature of okay, it’s this puzzle. It’s the ultimate puzzle. And I can figure this out and I can, I can get it. And that’s the part to me, I think was such a major driver for so long until I realized what it actually was. And it was crazy that the moment I had that epiphany, I’m like, oh, it’s not what I was, what I thought it was. Yeah, I’m good. And that was a crazy moment for me of how quickly when I understood why I was playing and what it was all about for me to then realizing, oh, it’s just this boom, it all shifted. And I’m sure I, I left it. Okay, so what was that? What was that moment, right? And, um, it was when I’ve realized it’s a business. It was kind of a crazy moment of when I, when it dawned on me that I’m not just playing anymore. This isn’t a childhood game anymore that you’re just playing because you love to play. There’s a lot of other factors that go into this. It’s almost like it took away the, the playfulness, the artistry, the, this is why it’s so, I just want to be around the best and this is going to be amazing too. Oh. This is just a professional business. Well, this isn’t as fun anymore. And that was a crazy moment to have that realization at that time to how quickly my back went out on me months later to being like, yeah, I’m good. I’m going to step away here for a little while. And so I’d retired for a little bit, came back. And when I came back for like a year, I retired for about a year and a half and came back. And when I came back within months, I knew I’m like, this is over. I’m done.
MARK WRIGHT 17:27
Yeah. That’s really interesting that you went through that, that thought process because I think all of us come to a point in our lives where we, I guess, I guess the best way to put it, maybe the innocence goes away, and we realize the cold, hard truth of like broadcasting, you know, how it’s a really cold business, it can be, in terms of like, yeah, they love you, and then, then comes the day when they don’t love you, and then it’s like they show you the door, and I think maybe a, a similar parallel would be, you know, actors, you know, you look at, you look at Hollywood, and then, oh, that looks so fun, and be fun to, to act at that level, but, man, that is a that is a cold hard business and just to work is, is an amazing accomplishment. So the fact that you were able to work all those years what I’m hearing from you Vinny is that, it sounds like you were really observing the coaching and the process of development as you were going through that whole period of your life. It wasn’t just that they were saying, hey Vinny, go over here and do this. You were, you were really becoming a coach as you were being coached. It sounds like.
VINCE MALTS 18:35
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, when the injury happened, I became hyper obsessed with understanding. Well, what about my skating is different, right? It was the technical skills that really I dove into and really wanted to feel it and articulate it and figure it out, right? It’s almost like the energy manifested into, okay, it was this. So I became obsessed with my skating and then there was obsession with my shot and obsession with my stick handling, right? So you’re just obsessed with all the technical aspects. And what was cool about that was I actually learned how to then teach it. Because I became so obsessed with understanding the intricacies of that, I became obsessed with, okay, I now get it. And so then I was able to teach it. And so when I was younger, it was cool. I got these opportunities in the off season where I would do these youth camps and I was natural in terms of being able to just express and clearly state what you’re going to feel while you’re doing it. You know, here’s the here’s the purpose behind it. And then I had a really interesting epiphany at about 25, 26 where it was like an aha moment of oh. So the whole time here I am thinking it’s it’s your skills and okay, you’ve got to really figure out the technical, technical, technical and then it was an aha moment like oh It’s about making plays. And that that opened up a whole new portal of understanding the flow, the way things truly work in terms of dynamics and culture and all that is that oh, there’s a game to this, right? There’s, uh, decisions that are just being made that don’t fight against nature. Try to just go with the current, right? Can you find it? And that was really cool, you know, of being able to understand, oh, just make a play. It’s, there’s the availability. Do it. Make it. There’s something here. Just, just make the play that’s available and just do it. And you’ll live to fight another day and you’ll be around for a long time. And that was a cool moment of how the transformation of that and that really expanded my ability to understand the game on a whole nother level that brought together that aspect of hockey for me. Um, I still had a lot to learn from a leadership standpoint and a mindset of how to articulate, but as far as like my initial stance and where my foundation was built, that was a really cool experience to go through as a, as a teacher, as a coach to really understand the fundamentals of technical aspect to then graduate to, oh, there’s a holistic way of seeing how this all now fits together. And that impacted me massively to this day.
MARK WRIGHT 21:31
Wow. That’s a really interesting, you know, point that you, you got to, because none of that technical stuff matters if the puck doesn’t go in the net, right? I mean,
VINCE MALTS 21:41
Nope, nope, not at all. It’s a, it’s like the difference between cognitive and conscious, right? Cognitive is in the moment. I’ve got to do Conscious as well. I’m gonna kind of read read the room a little bit and just be aware right of what’s going on and so many people focus on the cognitive like what do I do need to do now instead of wait, let me observe and see, well, where’s the best place to position myself first, then I’m ready to do it. And that’s such a challenge for the human mind, especially when you’re younger. I want the answer. Show me now. And the impatience and all that, until you finally realize like, oh, no, just observe. Oh, there’s the opportunity. Go get out. Like it’s, uh, yeah, very cool rhythm to, to have felt.
MARK WRIGHT 22:33
Is that what made Wayne Gretzky such an amazing player? Is that awareness of space and time?
VINCE MALTS 22:39
A thousand percent. You know, one of my favorite, uh, Gretzky stories was when his dad, it was funny, you know, listening to him talk about how he would say, you know, I don’t know. I just naturally just understood how to do it and think the game that way. And blah, blah, blah. He did it in one of these like mindset, uh, the athlete’s minds or something he had done for. Um, what’s the, um, what’s the, uh, mastermind classes that they offer? Right online. And it was funny to hear him say that because years before that, I had heard his dad talk about a story of how Gretzky would sit there and he would literally draw patterns of where the puck was going. So he would literally, as a kid, he’d, he’d watch him doing that. And then what his dad would do is he saw that he was doing that. But then what his dad was doing was when he would go out and play and he would drop a hundred pucks on the ice for him. He would tell him, okay, now what I want you to do is I want you to think about a hundred different ways of how you’re going to carry that puck and create to make your play. And so it’s funny to hear him say, I don’t know where it came from. And then to hear the influence of his dad was forced enough to think that way. And it’s like, yeah, well, hey, call me. I know where it came from. You know, it didn’t just pop up, buddy. Like that’s pretty brilliant what your dad had doing for you in that context. And, um, you know, that’s, that’s the part, right? Where it’s like the understanding of what you see someone like him, how early he was exposed to that form of education to create and think about it and also the natural disposition that he had towards just doing something like that, of writing that out is just incredible. But then to have, um, his parent to recognize and say, I’m going to show you ways to keep strengthening that just fortunate, right? I mean, what are the odds in life to have that?
MARK WRIGHT 24:31
Yeah, I’m, I’m, I’d love to ask. I mean, I want to get into you. You have a company called Bloodline Hockey. It’s a mental performance coaching program. It sounds just like you were you were born for this work. And after hearing you talk about how you got here, it’s pretty, pretty obvious. Um, but when we talk about the difference between good players and great players, uhm it seems like there’s a lot of Similar physical abilities in hockey that there are a lot of people who are fit and have great skills, but you know, we, you know, I love to watch golf and even some of the top golfers in the world when it gets down to Sunday and they’re coming up 15, 16, 17 and it’s, it’s amazing how pressure uh, can make even the best players fold sometimes, and we’re talking the best players in the world. So I’d love for you to tell me what you learned over the years about mental performance and how important that is. And is it just innate or how you develop it?
VINCE MALTS 25:35
Oh, yeah. No, it’s, um, it’s a great point there. And, you know, one of the things that we talk about a lot is that the difference between good and great is literally inches. Like you said, it’s, it’s such a tiny fraction of space, but the space is incredibly dense, you know, like it’s such a small little thing, but breaking through it is so tough for the ego, the human mindset, right? Of Dr. Jeff Spencer, I talks about that and learned a lot about that from him. But, um, yeah that’s the part where understanding the difference between good and great is the great players are obsessed with knowing their own unique process inside out. They are so curious, so inquisitive, so confident in what they’ve discovered about what works in their process that, you know, it’s the process of elimination that happens that, oh, this works, this doesn’t. Okay now that I’ve recognized this doesn’t work. Now I’m going to do everything in my power to sustain what does work. And that is a massive differentiator that when you see great, great, any kind of form of greatness is that that’s the lever. That’s the difference between the great players and everybody else. The good players, there’s a ton of good talent out there. There’s tons. But like you stated, you know, the fundamental reality is that the great players are fully aware. That it’s about sustainability maintainability. How do I keep on repeating what I know in my process simply works. And that is so challenging and especially in today’s world. That’s a big thing that we’re always battling with, with younger generation because they’re influenced so much by social media. When we came up, we didn’t have all these ideas to work off of it. All these tricks and this is so cool. Let me do that. Let me do that. Let me go now invest a ton of time into doing something that I’m probably only going to get to do maybe once in 10 games. If that the difference is fundamentally the opposite side was do you do the things that you just know are going to work and you work hard at doing that? Over and over and over again. And that’s the differentiator. Hands down, it’s not challenging in terms of recognizing what you need to do. It’s challenging where the complexity, right? We always say it’s simple, but complex. Because it’s simple that most people actually know, especially high performers. You have a conversation with them and I’ll sit with them and I’ll have a session. They know they know what they need to do. They know what’s getting in their way. They know what’s hitting, you know, hitting the brakes stopping them. They know but what they don’t know is and what they don’t recognize is when they get those moments throughout the week where yeah, you know what? Maybe just I’ll go do that tonight. No big deal. I’ll be fine tomorrow right going out or something like that or they’re in the game and well, coach, you know what? I’m going to play this way. I’m going to do it my way. It’s, it’s fine. I’ll be fine. I’ll do it this way. It’s no big deal. Like no one’s going to get upset, right? It’s, it’s these like little moments that happen where that human mindset kicks in and you don’t recognize that. Wait a second. This is that moment that I know I know is not going to work. So don’t do it. And it’s the battle you’re having internally where you know, don’t do it. And that’s at the fundamental core of good and great is that the great players know non-negotiable. Yep, I’m, definitely not doing that not a chance because I’ve learned I’ve recognized consciously this works, so I’m going to keep on going back to what works because I want to keep sustaining my greatness and my uniqueness and that’s the game.
MARK WRIGHT 29:33
That’s, that’s really great advice. So it really does start with an honest self-assessment of who am I as a player? Who am I as a human? And,, and really playing to those strengths. We had a previous guest on the podcast who said drop what you suck at. Jeff, Jeff Kaas. I’m sure you’ll meet him at some point uh, Vinny. He’s an amazing guy. He’s um just, uh, we taped an edition of Contributors Corner and I hope we can get you on, on Contributors Corner and pass guests weighing in. But yeah, it’s, it’s that, it’s that understanding that I’m never, I could practice this for forever and I’m never going to be the best at this particular thing. So, but I am really good at this over here. So, when you’re looking at, at young players, uh, there was a post on your Facebook page that I found really interesting and it was. It was about short-term bias and how coaches sometimes expect kids, especially kids, to get it immediately and put it into practice, and they get frustrated when kids can’t, can’t just get it and do it. And it seems to me that you’ve learned that patience as a coach is really an important aspect, especially when you’re dealing with young kids, right?
VINCE MALTS 30:43
Yeah, especially right. You know, it’s one of those things that the bias is such a real thing, right? You’ve got from the confirmation bias to observer bias. This is all kinds of different forms of as a coach, where in our minds, we fail to recognize that you’ve been doing this for 20 years. You’ve been doing this for 30 years. So, of course, to us, Veteran players to us, oh, that’s what you need to do. Done. But we forget that well, do you know how long it took you to realize again to get through that crack of that little bit, those inches? Do you realize how long it took you to understand one basic, fundamental, simple thing about your process. And for coaching, you start to become successful. You start to see that you’ve helped certain players and the ego starts to get in the way. And you start to forget that when you’re dealing with a 12, 13, 15, 16, even 22, 23, 24-year-old mind, they’re still young. They still have to figure out life and manage everything around them and, you know, depending on where they’re at in the stage, right, the progression biologically, psychologically, sociologically, right, there’s, there’s all these different layers that it’s hard for us to stop and appreciate and think for a second and go, wait a second, this is where you are in your process. I remember what that was like. Okay, you’re not doing this on purpose. You just need more time. And that’s, that’s a big part that try to remind coaches of, but unfortunately, as you know, when it comes to any form of leadership, a lot of coaches that, and a lot of human beings for that matter, confirmation bias is just comfortable. It’s easy. I want to be right. I want to know, hey, listen, I know that if you do this, it’s going to bring you success. Right coach, you’re not wrong but you’re also not right, because do you know all the other things that might be getting in this performer’s way? Do you know everything else that’s going on in school? Do you know what’s going on at home? Do you know what’s going on with other relationships? You know, especially the parents. Do you know what’s being said by parents? Or do you know what’s being said by another skills coach that they might trust? There’s all these layers of influence that, are you appreciating that? And oh, by the way, just the way their brain is hardwired. Are you appreciating that? Like, I know you can look at some of these kids and it’s like, yeah, you look like a man or, you know, you look like a woman, you look, but it’s no, like, there’s still a child up top. It’s still, there’s still just a big looking human being, but they’re not, it doesn’t coincide what you think, where they are mentally when it comes to wisdom or understanding. And, um, that is such an important challenge for any leader coach is that you have to recognize that in yourself because it’s so delicate when you have the privilege of coaching a human being for, especially if, you know, you have them on a team as an example, six, seven, eight months, and all it’s going to take is one, one moment that you blow up and say something you shouldn’t have. And the trust is gone and you can try the rest of the season to get it back. But by the time you get it back, the season might be over and that person moves on from you. So, there’s such a responsibility that comes with dealing with younger minds that it’s a challenge because the human mindset, right? It’s the bias of I want to be right. I know what I see. And it’s like, again, you’re not wrong, but you’re also not right because you’re not taking to account all the other factors that goes into this human being. That’s just young.
MARK WRIGHT 34:41
Yeah. I feel like we as a society put way too much pressure on our kids to be great in sports and to play at the highest level they can. Instead of just being grateful for what sports can do to develop our kids into incredible human beings. Um, I love what the NCAA has a, has an ad campaign where they, they just lay out the numbers, you know. The odds of someone becoming a professional athlete are one in like how many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands. And, and yet, and then they celebrate the fact that, you know, this collegiate athlete went on to become a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. I’m sure that, you know, the whole parent dynamic is something that you have to deal with a lot. Um, how do you deal with that and what’s your best advice for maybe a parent who’s listening, who wants their kid to excel in sports, but, man, we’ve heard so many stories of kids that just get burned out and say, I’m done. I’m really done.
VINCE MALTS 35:36
Yeah, 100%. You know, unfortunately, what ends up happening is parents, right? The reason that they want to use sport is to develop most parents that we talked to. And even, you know, we’re dealing with a lot of high-level players that are, they come to us young and they end up becoming division one athletes. They end up getting drafted, you know, professionally. And the one thing that is 99% across the board with all these parents is, I want my child to develop the life skills. I know what the sport does for them, you know, and that’s what I want. So, from their mind, from their perspective, they’re aware of, that’s what they want to happen. But then the culture of the game is what pulls them in. The FOMO. Well, there’s this event I have to go to, and then this person’s got an agent, and then this person’s training with this coach, and then this person’s doing this, and they feel like they’re missing out on what we grew up with was not in existence of any of this noise. But now there’s so much noise around, well, if you want to make it and you want to make it, well, didn’t you say you want to learn the life skills in sport? But now you want to make it. So now you think you’re going to create some kind of cheat code because you’re going to go start working with somebody or you think you’re going to go to some event and that’s what’s going to make it happen when the when the truth is fundamentally the reality. And we’ve talked about this a lot at the professional level. One of the running jokes is when players getting drafted and the whole process of drafting players and going through that is how much people actually think they can work their way to become that player or that, you know, the, the chosen one to, to get to that level when the truth is, if you do the right things and we’re all in the same bucket of doing the right things, take the game for what it is, develop the professional qualities that it’s teaching you, right? The, the game is teaching a lot of great things, how to critically think, how to communicate, how to collaborate. It’s teaching you the professional skills that are necessary. Keep going in that because eventually what’s then going to happen is if you are meant to be a professional, it’s going to happen because that’s what you were designed to be. But if you’re not meant to be a professional, you’re not going to be a professional no matter how hard, no matter how many people you pay, no matter what you do. Because, you know, at the core of the hockey culture, which makes a distinction that’s really easy to point out to people, there’s two worlds that exist. There’s the pay to play world. And then there’s the professional earn it world. And unless mom or dad owns an organization, maybe you’re getting in at the junior level, which is like 16 to 20. Maybe you get the opportunity there. But when it comes to the collegiate level or when it comes to the professional level, no amount of I know this person, I know that I have this amount of money is going to get you there. It’s going to be the whole world and everybody can see either you’re good enough or you’re not. There’s a, there’s a artistic raw truth to your ability. This, you either have it or you don’t, and that’s the fundamental root of that level. You, it’s either there or not. And so these people that think you’re gonna work your way there and pay enough people to get you there, if your child doesn’t have it like that, no amount of any of that is going to create that for you. Um, and so that’s the big part is that, you know, from a family standpoint, any parent listening is to realize that the best thing you can do and take away from the experience of youth sport as you’re coming up is development. Focus on the personal development of how am I becoming a better human being? How am I becoming an extraordinary leader? How am I using the quote unquote new street or new playground of life? To develop extraordinary qualities in my child as a human being, because that’s the new playground. That’s what it is, is it’s not go outside and everybody’s gonna show up. It’s, hey, everyone’s gonna show up at these youth levels and they’re all gonna be wanting the same thing you’re gonna want. But inside of that, the navigating, the finding the flow of it, and just learning how to become professional amongst the chaos. Is where the opportunity really lies for families inside of you sport is that recognizing what an opportunity you have to be a part of that to learn those skills because you’re not going to learn it in a classroom. You’re not going to learn it somewhere else where you just let them go outside. It’s just not something that is designed for that. You’re going to learn that if you understand what it is and you use it for what it is. We talk about all the time. Use the game for what it is. Don’t let it use you. And if you recognize that as a, as a family and really focus on, okay, we’re going to develop my child’s human qualities inside the professional qualities of just being an extraordinary individual. Now you’re playing the right game. Because now your lens is recognizing a completely different part. In the same experience as opposed to if you’re chasing and think who can I pay to get my child to this place? Such a terrible mindset because you’re gonna lose every single time because the irony is the ones who are making it are the ones thinking that way they’re using the game and again there That’s a whole different wrap different rabbit hole to go down but that’s what people don’t realize like that’s what they’re focused on is keep getting better there. People are chasing them. They’re not chasing people, And that’s the, that’s the differentiator is keep using it as a playground to just get better as a human being.
MARK WRIGHT 41:33
And it sounds like if, if you’re a parent who really embraces that, that truth, that mindset of don’t worry about whether they’re going to make pro, that if it happens, it happens. If it’s meant to be, if they’re talented enough, it seems like if you really embrace that, that that would take a lot of pressure off both the parent and the kid.
VINCE MALTS 41:52
A thousand percent. Right? Because at the end of the day, you’re still learning the qualities necessary to be a good human being. And that’s the best part about it, is along the way, the relationship you’re building with your child, the things you’re learning together. Like, that’s the coolest part about when you take on that mindset, you’re, you’re not damaging the relationship. That’s the simplest way to put it, right? Because when you go the other way, navigating the other way and thinking you’re going to pay your way there. There are so many damaging moments and conversations that happen along the way that parents don’t recognize is happening. So then when you want to have that relationship with your child later on, well guess what? I remember what we went through for 10 years. And I hated my sport experience. And why? Because you’re the one that took me here, here, here. You made me chase it. You filled my head with all these ideas. And this stunk as opposed to when you take on the mindset of, we’re getting better. Hey, how did you get better? What are you noticing is improving? Oh, that’s interesting. Now you’re growing together. And that’s the beautiful part about it is that by shifting, it’s literally you’re going on two different adventures inside the same adventure. By shifting towards that other perspective. We’re actually growing together because we’re recognizing that there is a process of development happening here. And so, we’re both interested in doing the same thing and you’re growing. And like you said, as you keep on growing in that way, if it works out, great. If it doesn’t, wow, it was a great run and we learned a lot, and our time together was really healthy, and we grew together during that time. And that’s the coolest part about the journey. When, when you take on that mindset like that is we’re actually doing it together as opposed to the other way is it’s very separate. 99% of the times, it’s very separate because it’s the parent wants whatever they want significantly more than the child wants it.
MARK WRIGHT 43:54
Vinny, you’ve been called a player whisperer, which I presume means that you have an exceptional ability when it comes to, you know, really communicating and gaining the trust. You talked about trust earlier of your young hockey players. I’d love for you to give coaches advice because, I mean, all of us have dealt with coaches and some have been just wonderful experiences. And it’s such a part of our culture, you know, in, in every sport, you know, we, we put our kids in the hands of these coaches from the time they’re, you know, five, six years old, and, uh, it’s, it’s, it can be a really amazing experience, but I would love for you to give some coaching advice to those coaches, like, here’s the secret, here’s what you need to stay focused on, because you’re right, it takes one, one bad experience of a coach yelling at you or just doing, you know, the wrong thing and losing sight of what it’s all about.
VINCE MALTS 44:49
Exactly. Exactly. Well, first and foremost, the biggest thing for sure that I would encourage any coach to be able to look at is to line up, uh, find the belief in whoever it is that you’re dealing with, right? Find the belief that lines up with their belief. Be mindful of not trying to infuse your belief into what you want the child or the athlete to believe. And that is a very particular nuance that is so important in the relationship building process with the athlete or any high performer. Because what most experts or authority do is, wow, I have this belief internally and my bias thinks, wow. If you did this, you could be amazing and you’re not aligning it though with, well, what do they naturally believe about that part of the process? So that would be the first thing that I would encourage is recognizing. Are you doing the work necessary to dig in and really learn about this human being and understanding what they believe about themselves? What? How did they perceive what they’re trying to achieve? How are they seeing it in their own headfirst? And then you build your belief on top of that. Get to the core of what they’re how they view it. And then now start to build your strategy and plan around that. And so, you know, the next part I would highly recommend is, and what’s funny is I came across this science and didn’t realize I was always naturally doing this, but it’s a concept called motivational interviewing. And what, the idea behind it is that you’re working as a guide. So, in it, and this is where we got a lot of power in our process. And so, there’s a great book, I believe it’s called Coaching Athletes to Be Their Best, if anybody wants to go and dive a little bit more into it. But basically, what the idea behind motivational interviewing is, I’m asking you questions, and I’m guiding you to get out of you. What do you think? How do you see this part of your process? How do you see this working out? And then the athlete gives you back what they think, and then you reiterate back to them their words, their language. Oh, so you see it this way. Yes, that’s how I see it. Okay, so how do you feel about that? What do you think you could do about that? And literally, I spend hours, years, having conversations just like that. Is that all the tools and everything that we build around is, you know, I tell our, anyone that comes to us privately is that I’m act as if I’m your second brain. I’m an extension of your brain because what I’m doing is I’m going to get out from you what you’re saying and what you’re believing, and then I’m going to help to clean it up so we can articulate it clearly in how you see it. But again, these are your words, not mine. Um, and I fight very hard to make sure that that clarity with anyone we work with is there. And that is such a big part of coaching anyone today is that you don’t want to take and put in their minds what you think they should believe or what you want them to believe. It’s, what do you believe? What do you think about this? And then working really hard to take whatever they naturally see and think to keep on reiterating back to them and make sure that they understand that they truly believe that. Because if they do, then guess what? You’re gonna change your behavior. You’re gonna then continue to maintain and sustain what you believe you know is your truth. Because once Pandora’s box is open and you see the truth, we can’t undo it. And that’s the secret sauce, right? We can’t go and undo what is naturally you are experiencing in your own vehicle and you’re feeling it happening. Like you can, you can sense that it’s going on and the truth is the truth. Your reality is showing you the evidence based on the history of your experience is showing you that I said this and yes, it’s working. Or, I said this and no, it’s not working. Great. So let’s adapt and work through that. And so those would be where I’d work very hard as a coach to make sure that you’re doing the work necessary to recognize in your own process, to recognize how you’re strategically building out the nuances of that process, because that’s at the fundamental core of being able to work in the context of a human being who’s a part of a family, a team, a team. Uh, a company, any collective environment, being able to help them clearly identify what that thing is to them of their natural source of belief, and then teach them how to understand how to flow with what else is around them. You can’t get to that without doing that work initially. So, then you know clearly how they’re perceiving everything because then it makes the collective so much easier to deal with.
MARK WRIGHT 50:08
And I think sometimes we forget how when you’re a kid. Little stuff seems really big and even kind of scary stuff seems really scary, and I just, I mean, I’m thinking back to little league baseball, just being petrified of getting hit by pitches because some of the big kids could throw so fast, but you know, these coaches, though, you’re right, though. I mean, if a coach really drills down and understands that, oh, Mark is really afraid of this part of the game, or he loves this part of the game, then you can start to lay out uh, some coaching that will get, get them over the hump, right? Not just, hey, stop turning your head, you know, stop pulling your head when you’re fielding ground balls or stop doing this or that.
VINCE MALTS 50:48
Exactly right. Like we fight against the net in the nature of somebody’s thought process. And it’s so ridiculous because the irony is how much easier it is that you know, on the front end. So, you know, I’ve had coaches, division one coaches, you know, professional coaches say to me like, wow, it sounds like a lot of work that you’re doing. I’m like, yeah, on the front end, the first three to six months. Oh yeah. A lot of work. But then after that, you have no idea how much easier life becomes in the back end. And we’re dealing with super complex, nuanced issues that are going on. But because we did this work that was so important and understanding. They’re just natural thinking process. It now makes it so much easier as opposed to, you know, one of my favorite stories, you know, that I’ve shared before, is that you know, Cole Julian. So, he coached Boston Bruins, Montreal Canadiens. He’d been around for a while. So, I had him as my coach when I was 19, 20, you know, playing junior hockey. And the one thing that he recognized, which was just brilliant, was I kept going from the right side of the ice. I was playing wing and I was on the right side, right winger. And what he recognized was in the first 20 games of playing for his team, I kept on moving naturally to the left side of the ice. There was just something I just wanted to keep going to the left side. I just loved going to that left side. And the first 20 games, you know, I put up about 8, 9 points. You know, decent. And he goes, you know what, we’re going to put you on the left side. Because you know what, you just want to go there. You love going there. Let’s just put you there. Clearly, it’s just how your brain works. Cool. Puts me there, and boom. The next 20 games, I put up about 19, 20 points, go into the playoffs, have an incredible playoffs, get drafted, all that stuff happens. And so, what I recognize, and what I always give back when you think about it, right, is that, what you said earlier, right, that staying away from what you suck at, it’s the thinking process of, he recognized in the moment, you naturally keep thinking to go do this pattern over here. So, let’s just put you over there, because why fight against your nature of how you’re seeing it? Let’s put you there and see what happens. And that to me is the work, organizations, teams, that human beings, for the most part, in leadership positions, suck at doing. They, they’re very much driven on my ego, what I see for you, how I, because I have to fix you. It’s my role and responsibility to fix you, as opposed to, you know what, let me recognize, wow, you’re really, okay, that’s what, uh, you’re really good at that. That’s how you naturally see, okay, so you know what, let’s maneuver you into this position as a leader, because I know that if I put you there, it’s going to make this whole thing work so much better together, right? It’s like a symphony, right? It’s the orchestrator, it’s the chef. It’s knowing, how do I make it taste delicious? It’s those things, right? And that’s, that’s leadership today, right? It’s do you, do you have the ability to recognize how to take a human being and say, wow, you’re naturally thinking like this. Let’s put you into this position because there you’re going to be awesome as opposed to, no, I want you to be obedience. I want you to do it this way. And it’s just like, with high performers with high achievement. Good luck. Good luck telling a human being that already knows they have capabilities and now you’re trying to tell them to go be something else. Good luck with that.
MARK WRIGHT 54:22
I love it. When we talked a few weeks ago, you told me that every team needs veteran players. And, uh, as we kind of start to wrap things up in the I’d love to, to make the jump from what you’re teaching in athletics to, to what you can teach us in the corporate world. Um, why is it important for those teams to have those veteran players, and what are the qualities that the organization benefits from? And then make that translation to the business world, if you would.
VINCE MALTS 54:52
Yeah, yeah, big time. So, you know, the first one that you think about right away is the experience, right? To have people inside that can actually share multiple layers of experience. I know what it was like to be a rookie. I know what it’s like to be injured. I know what it’s like to get cut, to have, get traded, to get fired, whatever it is, right? To have these experiences that hey, I’ve gone through all the different layers and guess what? I learned how to adapt to every single one of these situations, right? Here’s what I took away and what’s really important to recognize, whether you’re inside of a team, you know, whether inside of a company is that leadership has a really tough position to be in because when you’re a leader and you’re given that title, there’s a certain role and responsibility that comes with the overseeing process, right? So, there’s a lot of blind spots that you’re not privy to. And so the veterans, the people inside the company that have been there, that get it, that understand how the different situations work. And I’ve seen all the different situations and I understand it. They are the bridge. They are the translators. They are the glue that keeps everyone together that when you have that, young player comes in and they’re super frustrated and they don’t get it and they’re upset with the coach or they’re upset with the boss or leadership and there’s this tension that’s going on. Well here comes the veteran that comes in and says hey, listen let me explain to you how they’re seeing it from their perspective. You’ve got to appreciate that All right And, let me help you understand the perspective that I once had in your position and I see where you’re coming from and let me explain to you how I dealt with it And worked through it and so in companies the appreciation of that. And there’s, it’s one of those things where teams do recognize the importance of veteran leadership. But the thing that gets dicey and interesting with, ironically enough, the leaders and the coaches that are there, is that a GM might recognize the importance of having the glue in there. But then a coach, and the ego kicks in and the leadership, will get kind of like a little bit uncomfortable with the fact that, well, wait a second. You have more power over this team than I do, and so it’s a fascinating nuance to it that’s important to recognize because when we talk about having the glue and the importance of what this human being or these human beings bring as the bridge, it’s recognizing if you are a leader, do you recognize the importance of that some of these leaders inside the room might actually have a capacity and skill set that is far greater than your capacity and skill set to get a message across. And do you have the capacity to recognize that in yourself and allow that to happen as, as leadership? Will you allow that to do what it does? Because those veterans, that is the core of how any one of these companies or teams work in terms of being able to have true fundamental success. Because if you don’t have the day to day, they’re the ones that are hanging out together every single day. They’re the, the one, they’re the ones around it. They’re able to see what’s going on between the young players, between the staff members. They’re the ones seeing everything they’re in. They’re in all of it, right? They understand, have an idea of what’s going on in the room with the coaches and the leaders and the bosses. They have some kind of an inkling, but they, they’ve been around enough to know like, yeah, yeah, I know what’s going on in there, right? But the importance of how they pull together the two worlds, because there is a massive disconnect between leadership and the youth or the young people that come into any company or any team, you have to realize, and I hear this all the time with entrepreneurs of how all the new generation, they’re so hard to deal with and dah, dah, dah, and it’s like, yeah, they’re hard to deal with because you’re making it hard on yourself of how you’re perceiving it. You’re not accepting the fact that yeah, it’s going to take time for them to develop. Are you ready to give them two, three, four years to work through the chaos because they don’t know they don’t have a role, they don’t have an identity yet, they’re trying to find their way. Are you good with that? Or do you want them to behave a certain way? Again, the obedience where it’s just like, listen, at the end of the day, like, are you really going to get through to them or are you going to allow them to kind of just do their thing and navigate the waters as they’re doing their thing, because you have to accept that as part of what it is with a young human being, or are you trying to force your nature and your beliefs on them? And you’re just getting frustrated. It’s like it’s your own mind doing that. And that’s where the key of those, those veterans that are inside that glue, those employees that you have that no, yeah, I don’t want to have that title of the lead dog but I’m totally cool with being in it and being a leader inside it because I’m fully aware of that’s my role within this. I’m totally cool with that. And so, for entrepreneurs, it’s understand, do you look for that? Do you express that to people coming in? Hey, I saw you were once a CEO or you once were one of the top dogs in here. I’d love to bring you into my company and say, hey, can you just be in it and just be that glue person? I need you in my company to do that. And that’d be amazing if you could come in and do that. I mean, what a, what a change, right? As opposed to most leaders will look, hear that and go, that’s not me. I would never do that. And it’s like, but that is the good stuff. Like imagine if we had more of that, more of that veteran leadership inside of companies. Like it literally would transform companies like there’s no doubt about it because all the craziness that goes on, you would just settle down the anxiety, the stress, the chaos because like, okay, I trust that person. They’ve been there. They get it. They have my back. Whereas a leadership position. It’s hard to play that role without that glue.
MARK WRIGHT 01:01:05
Yeah. I was talking with Jerry DiPoto a while back. He’s the GM for the Seattle Mariners. And, you know, baseball, there’s a lot of talk about what’s, what’s the clubhouse like, what, you know, what’s the mix of veterans to, to rookies. And, and I asked Jerry, I, and Scott services has been the manager of the team for a number of years now. I said, Jerry, how do you, how do you, I mean, so much is out of your control, but how do you evaluate Scott as a coach? And he said, honestly, we sit him down and we say, we don’t want you thinking about wins and losses. He said, that’s the worst thing that you can do as a coach. He said, what we want you, Scott, to focus on is creating a climate in the clubhouse that leads to winning. And wow, what a difference, you know, it’s like, and it’s just what you said, Vinnie. It’s that mix of veteran knowledge and it’s that calm and it’s that camaraderie. It’s, and these guys, they just last night, uh, won their sixth straight game and we’re headed into the fall and maybe we’ve got a chance at the playoffs I hope by the time airs I hope our Mariners still on the playoffs. But you know, baseball and all these sporting analogies that we’ve been talking about today. It’s, it’s all the same. Um, it’s teamwork. It’s understanding your unique contribution. It’s working together as an organization for a common goal. Um, and it’s just it’s beautiful when it works right.
VINCE MALTS 01:02:34
Amen to that. Amen. Right. And that’s the challenge, right? I love that. You know, I love that perspective because it truly is the climate, right? If, if everybody just prepares themselves for what it is, but as a unit, as a family, all these things that we like to talk about when it comes to team sports, right? Or team building or, or a company, whatever it is, the family, if we just understood the importance of the conditions of, hey, okay, I can tell you’re stressed. Let me, what can I do not to create more stress. And it just shifts. As opposed to, well, you’re mad. Now I’m going to be mad and we’re just going to stay mad at each other and we’re not going to come up with any solution. And what kind of climate as time goes on chips away and eats at us and the amount of damage that does, right? And that’s the part about, I love that the focus is, hey, make it as bright and sunny or make it 72 degrees. Keep it. So, it just feels nice temperature in here. That’s all. Just make it a nice temperature. And it’s amazing how just that perspective right there. It truly is incredible how much it changes our experience as human beings collectively. When leadership thinks that way, it’s incredible how much easier it makes the chaos of high performing anything, you know, in this world.
MARK WRIGHT 01:03:58
Well, this has been such a rewarding conversation, Vinny. Uh, man I’ve learned a lot. Um, before we part here, I’d love for you to give just one piece of advice, like what’s a good parting piece of advice that really encapsulates who you are as a coach and what you’ve learned over the decades.
VINCE MALTS 01:04:20
How do we make life feel easier for each other? All right. What can we do to just, you know, as a human being, as a leader, right? It’s in it. I know there’s a lot of people listening that that’s the role we want to take on is we want to lead, and we want to help. And so, the responsibility of the conscientious living of understanding that there’s a major responsibility that comes with leadership that is basically comes down to how can I make this life feel easier for those I lead? Because if I can recognize that pattern and I can find a way to flow with that energy. It’s incredible what that gives back to you as a leader, the credibility, what it does to the ecosystem, right to everybody around you. So, it’s just finding that source. How can I help you to just make it feel easier for you and you’ll find the irony is it makes it so much easier for yourself as well. And that’s the beautiful part about it is search for that and look for that and be consciously intentional about it. And it’s amazing what that can do, you know, in your life as time passes.
MARK WRIGHT 01:05:34
And managers that do that, you know, I’ve had, I’ve had managers like that over the years, and man, I’ll follow those people till, till the end of time, you know, those managers that prove that they, they have your, your interests at heart and really do care about you. Um, that’s what it’s all about. That’s, that’s, uh, that’s great, great advice. Well, Vinny Malts, this has been fantastic. I’m super inspired by the work that you’re doing, and man, I’ve learned a lot today, and I hope we can keep in touch. Thanks so much for being on the show.
VINCE MALTS 01:06:03
Absolutely, Mark. Thank you so much for having me. Truly appreciate it.
MARK WRIGHT 01:06:06
Alright, cheers. I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P family. New episodes drop every Monday, and if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING, where we are winning the game of work.
