When Josh Dunn dropped out of college to start a bridal magazine in 2001, it was the start of an entrepreneurial journey that spans decades.
Today, his company, Premier Media Group, manages six brands, including 425 Magazine, 425 Business, South Sound Magazine, and Northwest Travel & Life.
Josh has grown the company by hiring and keeping the right people, doing good in the community without expecting something back, and taking time to dream. For him, there really is no line that separates business and life – he wants to win at both.
Host Mark Wright’s conversation with Josh covers a lot of ground, including the current state and future of media and a near-fatal accident that prompted Josh to rethink and reschedule the way he works. It’s a silver lining we can all learn from and another lesson in redeeming work.
Resources from the episode:
- Connect with Josh Dunn on LinkedIn.
- Find Josh on Instagram (@leadandfollow2) and X, formerly known as Twitter (@Leadandfolllow2).
- Learn more about Premier Media Group and explore their publications here.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Josh Dunn and Mark Wright
JOSH DUNN 00:00
I was joking with my parents the other day. I, I was getting teachers would notify my family. You know, Josh is always staring out the window. He’s not focused and he’s a daydreamer. And why is that a bad thing? And I look at my life today and interesting enough, I, I, I’m proud to say I’m a dreamer. I have signs in my office. I love dreaming and it’s healthy to dream. It’s okay to daydream. A lot of good things can come out of this. And we’re not the best with our young folk to allow them and to encourage them. It’s okay to daydream. It’s okay to stare out the window. Good things are coming.
MARK WRIGHT 00:44
This is the BEATS WORKING Show. We’re on a mission to redeem work, the word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to BEATS WORKING, winning the game of work. On the show this week, doing good in business and in life. When Josh Dunn dropped out of college to start a bridal magazine in 2001, it was the start of an entrepreneurial journey that would span decades. Today, his company, Premier Media manages six brands including 425 Magazine, 425 Business, South Sound Magazine and Northwest Travel and Life. Josh has grown the company by hiring good people and keeping them, doing good in the community without expecting something back, and also taking time to dream. To Josh, there really is no line that separates business and life. And he wants to win at both. My interview with Josh covers a lot of ground, including the current state and future of media. But it was a near fatal accident that prompted Josh to rethink and reschedule the way he works. It’s a silver lining I think we can all learn from. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Premier Media President and Founder, Josh Dunn. Josh Dunn, welcome to the BEATS WORKING podcast. It’s great to have you here.
JOSH DUNN 02:05
Mark, thank you so much.
MARK WRIGHT 02:07
I’ve been looking forward to this, Josh, because we have not had a media person on the podcast yet. You’ve been in media for a long, long time, very successfully. And oh my gosh, so much has changed in the media landscape. Um, and also the fact that you’re an entrepreneur and you’ve been growing businesses and raising new businesses and employing people for a long time. So, um, I think there’s going to be a lot of gold in our conversation today on your half of the table. So super excited about it, Josh.
JOSH DUNN 02:37
Great.
MARK WRIGHT 02:38
So, Josh, founder, CEO, Premier Media. So, you have, correct me if I’m wrong, but six brands under that umbrella. Is that correct?
JOSH DUNN 02:47
Yep. We started back in the week of 9/11 with one brand and then over the last 23 years We’ve, uh, acquired some brands, sold some brands as well as, uh, started our own brands to, uh, add to the portfolio. So yes.
MARK WRIGHT 03:03
So, break those down for us. You’ve got a 425 Magazine. You’ve got 425 Business. Uh, what are all the publications that you guys put out?
JOSH DUNN 03:10
Yeah. So, the other markets that we serve is South Sound magazine, South Sound Business. Uh, we acquired Northwest Travel and Life this last year. And with that also came a meetings News Northwest. And, uh, also it came with a, uh, travel and words conference for travel writers. So that’s something fun that we’ve just picked up.
MARK WRIGHT 03:32
Wow. Take me back to the beginning, Josh. Um, you dropped out of college to start into the business world. Um, your grandfather was a huge inspiration to you. Um, I would love to figure out, like, that point at which I think the reason that I’m asking about this is that I think our society still is stuck in this, everybody has to go to college model. And then like my own son is now, you know, in a five-year apprenticeship program to become an electrical, uh, uh, an industrial electrician and, uh, has a four year degree from Gonzaga, but is absolutely loving his, his newfound trade. Take me back to that time in your life and what made you decide. Man, I got to break out on my own.
JOSH DUNN 04:14
Yeah. I mean, and again, there’s nothing against higher education. I think higher ed can be extremely valuable, whether it’s in the early stages of our life or even latter, if you want continued education opportunities or to learn. Um, but for me as an entrepreneur, I just felt this desire to hang around and glean from other business folks as to what does it take to be successful and primarily a small, you know, medium sized companies. And so, my grandfather is an entrepreneur. He’s been a part of my life. He’s golly in his 90s now and still a very active part of my life, been part of my advisory board. And so, I knew that instead of education, normal type of a mainstream education, I decided to go a different route. And that was more like on a main street, street smart. And just put people in my life that are entrepreneurs, business mind, they became, and still are to this day, they are that educational workforce in my head that helps me identify what to take to be successful as an entrepreneur or in business.
MARK WRIGHT 05:20
So where did it all start? What was your first project?
JOSH DUNN 05:23
Um, first, well, it’s, um, early, even before I started the own company, I’ve always been hustling, mowing lawns, you know, things like this. But, uh, my first project that I really wanted, and even to this day, I would still love to own would be a storage unit. I, uh, did a business plan for a storage unit. I thought, man, this would be a wonderful business to get into. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of cash to get into that business. And, uh, when I was in my young twenties, I didn’t have that kind of cash laying around. So, I, uh, I cashed in 12 shares of Starbucks to leverage against to start Premier Media on the week of 9/11. And the first project was a wedding magazine and just looked at where our market was in Tacoma and Gig Harbor and Olympian. There was really no product or brand for the wedding industry. So, I thought, well, I can communicate with business owners. I’m going to go, uh, sell this idea of a wedding magazine for the Tacoma South Sound area.
MARK WRIGHT 06:20
Wow. So how did it go in the beginning? What kind of reception did you get? I mean, like anything, um, I’m trying to cast a vision, cast a brand. I have no proven product, no proven process. I, uh, I outsourced some design ideas and put together a mockup of what I envision this brand to look like. And I went on the road, and literally, Mark, took probably 600 nos. They weren’t negative nos, but certainly a lot of people are like, until you get something, let’s talk. But, out of that first 18 months of trying to sell it, um, 18, let’s see, probably 18 months in, I had about 27 clients. 50 clients say yes over the course of those 18 months. And that was the seed money back in 2001 that helped start Premier Media Group.
MARK WRIGHT 07:11
So, these were people you would feature in the magazine or at it would act as advertisers. How, what was the business model like?
JOSH DUNN 07:17
Yeah, the business model was first, I have to make this profitable. So, I have to sell advertising. I have to um, I have to pay for the printing, pay for the cost to build it out. So, it was all about an advertising model. 40 percent of our media is all paid advertising. 60 percent is all generated content, um, not AI generated, but human generated content, both internally and externally. But yeah, we had several businesses that said, yeah, I like your idea. I believe in a wedding industry. I think you can prove proof of concept and we’ll do this. And, uh, that wedding magazine is still successful to this day. I sold it back in, uh, 2006, and that was the seed money that started 425. Um, back in 06.
MARK WRIGHT 08:00
Oh my gosh, what a great story. So, as you started growing as an entrepreneur, I’m guessing you had to hire some people. I always love to ask people about how they figure out who is a good person to hire. Because, uh, it’s a tough, it’s a tough thing. I think people can put on a good face on a resume and put on a good face in an interview. What was your strategy to try to really find out who is this person sitting across the table?
JOSH DUNN 08:26
Yeah, I mean, certainly, uh, culture, hiring, I mean, essentially, they’re practically family that you need to have come alongside you and there’s certain things interview process that I try to identify when it comes to are you community minded? Are you family generated? You know, do you like to be around family? Do you believe in our community? Um, do you believe in helping businesses become successful? Um, do you believe that if you craft this story, you can make someone’s day? Do you believe if you can sell them advertising, you’re helping them move the needle in their company? If you believe in me, if you believe in yourself, and you believe in your skill set, then we can be a good fit. And that’s, that, and even today, that continues to be a model where um, we just want great talent, but great people that are willing to express their talent, go the extra mile, and be proud of their, you know, excellence in the way they create work.
MARK WRIGHT 09:27
What’s the one quality in an employee that, that drives you nuts that, that you have zero tolerance for?
JOSH DUNN 09:34
I, I think, uh, anytime someone, uh, crosses the line with lying, deceitful, um, and avoiding truth. Um, I have a problem with that. So, whether it’s the sales process, creative process or just communicating to your fellow colleagues. If we start getting to gray areas and not being truthful and honest with ourselves, or about your work, I, that part, um, I don’t have a lot of tolerance for that, right? Be honest, right?
MARK WRIGHT 10:04
I’d love, yeah, of course. I mean, beyond, you can’t, nothing else is possible without that foundation. You’re right. I’d love to know more about your grandfather. He sounds like an interesting character. You say he, I’ve heard you say he’s a finance guy. He’s the money guy. Um, tell me a little bit about his business experience and what some of the really good lessons you learned from him have been.
JOSH DUNN 10:25
Yeah, I mean, Mark, that’s, that’s awesome because, um, I’ve been in my Evernote, you know, tracking all these amazing quotes. Every time I’m with him, he’ll come up with some amazing little saying that, you know, it’s pretty simple, but they do make a lot of sense to me, and, um, even some of our other family members are doing a video documentary with him, just trying to capture all that he has to offer. But his background’s always been in healthcare and banking, and he’s a CFO, he’s very gifted in finance, and truthfully, that’s not a skill set for me. My skill set is, it leans more along the lines of, um, communication, um, networking, salesmanship, marketing, vision. That’s my skill set. And I would say I have a huge gap typically when it comes to finance. So, to have him and others in my life that fill that, and he always has these amazing one liners when it comes to, you know, either have a, uh, an income problem or an expense problem, it’s that simple in business, right? Or the one that gets me, and it always is interesting is, I even tell my kids this sometimes, in the realm of, you know, money and resources, that it takes more brains to spend money than to make money. And at first, you’re kind of like, well, but then the older you get and understand the power of how do we protect our family, our legacy, our kids, so that every dollar that we make has a long term benefit, not short term gain. You look at that and you’re like, wow, there’s a lot of wisdom in that one little simple comment that he’s, he’s notoriously always telling us.
MARK WRIGHT 12:05
That’s awesome. So, let’s talk, uh, more about how you’ve grown this empire of publications, Josh. It’s, it’s really been amazing. Um, I’d love to know how, like, like where did 425 Magazine, how did, how did that started or South Sound Magazine? Because, um, it seems like you’re really good at not only having good ideas but understanding your audience as well.
JOSH DUNN 12:29
Yeah, I think the stuff when it comes to media, man, to think I have an empire would be the dream, but certainly just with that six brands, um, uh, it’s a lot of work and I still feel myself as being a very young entrepreneur trying to hustle business, but end of the day, we’re very fortunate to have brands that are bigger than myself, bigger than our team. We have brands that have amazing following and when it comes to the brands, um, I just love the idea of, of listening to a community or an audience and identifying how we can serve them. And with our particular brands, every one of the brands that we’re involved in are also brands that I’m personally passionate about. And when it comes to 425, um, that particular idea came to me in a shower. I was looking to expand our business into the Bellevue, Kirkland, Redmond, East side. And I’m trying to figure out what would be the best-case scenario. Seattle already had several good brands out there serving Seattle proper. But what about Bellevue Eastside? And so 425 was definitely one of those ideas that popped up in the shower and ran with it. And it’s been a very successful brand launch. It’s our biggest brand that we own. And there’s also additional brands that help support it, that it’s now, it’s become more than just a magazine. It’s an attitude, it’s a stable of mind of I’m an East Sider, I’m a 425er. And then we added the 425 Business piece because we felt like there’s also an audience when it came to the business, the B2B side to the east side as it’s becoming quite the epicenter. For business in the whole Pacific Northwest.
MARK WRIGHT 14:08
Yeah, the east side is really, a lot of cities are looking to the east side and going, wow, they’re doing it right. I just like the fact that I can park for free when I go to Bellevue. But that’s another story. I’d love to talk about media now, Josh, because, when we look at just how life has been changed by technology, I mean, especially with in the age of AI now, um, but every single industry has been changed, radically changed in how they do business, how they find their customers, how they interact with their customers. I’d love your perspective. You’ve, you’ve been in this type of media for a long time. I just love a a perspective statement from you. Just kind of on, on the state of media today because it is it’s changing literally by the day.
JOSH DUNN 14:59
Yeah, I was gonna say the state of media today. I mean tomorrow is gonna change right, and um I love media and I know that we have a niche. I always felt like I can’t be everything to everybody I can’t compete with the big boys. We’re not a national brand. We’re not owned by a conglomerate nationally. It’s just us. There’s 30 of us in the whole Pacific Northwest that are incredible minds and talents. So how do I compete in media? Where’s media going? And it’s changing. I mean, we were very dominant as a regional lifestyle branded magazine. Well, then you have to add web content and take the content on social. And every one of those platforms are additional benefits. Also requires more resources. It’s also a way to extend your brand and there’s times you have to realize where do we want to be? Where do we not want to be? Where’s our brand best fit? You know even from a podcast everybody’s trying to get in the podcast space now and everybody’s going to Tik Tok and you just can’t do everything to everybody. And so, with our team we plan out annually, we determine editorially what’s important. Um, even with AI, I was just in Chicago last couple days when it comes to AI and there’s pros and cons to this. You start taking humanity out of it. And suddenly, what’s truth anymore? Back to your original comment about what drives me nuts, and that’s the truth. And, and our media is not in a space to be, um, bull heavy news. But we want to tell amazing stories, just like you right here, right now. You want to tell amazing stories. Get behind the lens. Get behind the, the curtain a little bit. That’s our, that’s our philosophy. Now, can A. help us with tools? Can AI help us with, um, ways to do things quicker? Yes, but you need great editing. You need great human connectivity to be excellent in the future. And so that’s our stance, is, is AI can complement some resources for efficiency, but end of the day, we are all about humanly touched, humanly engaged, incredible storytelling. That is paid. We pay people to craft a story. And we feel that we’re gonna stand behind that and build it. Now, did the platforms change tomorrow? They change next month? Honestly, yes. But, I’m also very, I have an old school soul. I love print. I just got a book today. I can’t wait to read a book, a real book. I don’t want to read stuff in digital. Digital to me is complementary to my overall life. But when it comes, I love reading Forbes Magazine or Fast Company or Men’s Health. I can’t wait to get a travel magazine or a great book and turn digital off. How, it’s so difficult for us to step away, and as much as I want my kids to pause and step away from digital, to enjoy breathing and reading something that’s in print. Golly, it’s beautiful.
MARK WRIGHT 18:07
Just that tactile feeling and you can switch back a page, go forward a page, put it in your bag, take it on a plane. I just, I’m kind of, I’m kind of with you. I love the feel of that. You mentioned your kids. Correct me if I’m wrong. You have a middle schooler and then also grown kids. Is that right, Josh?
JOSH DUNN 18:23
Yeah, we have two grown kids. Um, early, mid-twenties for my son and my daughter. In fact, my son, our oldest, just joined the company this last year. So, this has been an exciting new chapter. And he’s passionate about sales and marketing, mostly in the Northwest Travel piece. My daughter is a hairstylist, cosmetologist. She loves cutting and doing color with women. And then, yeah, I’ve got a 14-year-old, uh, boy that’s in the middle school and is just passionate for sports.
MARK WRIGHT 18:51
I’d love to know, Josh, what you’ve learned about media from your kids because when I see my kids and how they interact with media, it is just like, it’s a completely different way of, of engaging. And I’d love to know as you’ve observed them and just kind of how they you know, navigate the world. What, what do you, what do you see as the future of media as you kind of see it through the lens of your kids?
JOSH DUNN 19:16
Yeah. I mean, this is the, this is the challenging part is a lot of their usage of media certainly is digital and social and, um, you see them react to certain things that is not even truth. You know, you look at very bold news right now and all of a sudden you might think what’s truth. They’re reacting emotionally with anxiety or with hope, and it may not even be true, so that’s the sad part. Um, certainly video is a huge piece. Um, I’m seeing them pick up more and more on audio, so they’re picking up more, they’re starting to identify certain people they may want to follow, both from a podcast or audio, which is kind of cool. Um, YouTube continues to dominate everything when it comes to, in my opinion, media, capturing media, um, YouTube’s pretty incredible at that. I don’t, I wouldn’t necessarily see them picking up books or magazines. Um, I see them pick up a Sports Illustrated, they read it real quick and then they’re done. So that’s, as a businessperson trying to grow in the next 20 years, what does our company look like? And knowing that the next face of the next generations is heavily in technology. I do think there’s going to be a whiplash at some point. I think there’s going to be this pushback of exhaustion, of media exhaustion. And I, I think there’s going to be a pushback to some like old school brands. Just like you see old school vinyl shops popping up. That’s cool, right? Now are magazines and daily newspapers gonna pop up and be top of mind? I don’t know, but certainly I’m, I’m partially in that space. I hope so. But I mean, Jeff Bezos bought what, the Washington Post, so he sees value in, you know, media and print as well as digital and social. But yeah. What about you, Mark? What do, what do you see? You, you’ve been, uh, heavily engaged in media. You’ve had a great career in media. What, what are you sensing and seeing from your lens?
MARK WRIGHT 21:14
I really think, uh, you know, what you said about the fact that there’s so much information out there and there are so few editors now that this information just goes out and, and people consume it. And I really am concerned with how easily people can consume something on social media and think it’s the truth. And they don’t even take a, they don’t even take a beat and, and say, well, where did that come from? Who, who’s telling the story? How did they get the story? And, and I just, uh, speaking of the Washington Post, their longtime editor just retired and wrote a book and was on a wonderful program. Uh, I think it was Fresh Air on public radio, but, um, that’s one of the things that, that the value of old school journalism is that old school journalists understand the value of editing and the value of checking facts and getting it right. And I feel like we’re in the Wild West right now. With so much information flying around and, and people just treat it like it’s true. And, and, um, uh, you know, I left television after 35 years and I, I honestly don’t see anyone figuring out the future of that industry. Um, they’re staying profitable by cutting, by hiring cheap young people. Uh, working them super hard. Talk about multi-platform, you know, they’ve got to do web stories. They’ve got to do social media. They’ve got to do stories for tv. It’s just, it’s exhausting. Um, and it’ll be interesting to see where all this shakes out. I mean, uh, the, as a journalist, you, and, you know, we, we know the value of paid journalists who are, are paid to show up and try to be fair and right, you know, unbiased. We all have biases, but, you know, there’s, there’s true value in that. And I don’t know where it’s all gonna shake out because what I see right now, and I’m, I’m sure you agree, is people are just gathering in their little silos. And they’re hearing what, what they agree with and they’re kind of just, you know, pushing that stuff that they don’t agree with away. Even if it might be the truth. Which is, uh, an interesting time. Yeah. I don’t know. You know, um, and I, I agree with your statement that I think there’s going to be a kind of a whiplash because I think even in our kids’ generations, I have a nephew who’s in his twenties. And he’s in tech and he’s very successful, but he has a van that he’s, uh, outfitted with solar panels and all kinds of stuff. And he’ll just go in his van and park it, you know, park it at our farm, our organic vegetable farm up in Ferndale. And he’s happy as a clam. Just being totally kind of, well, not totally off grid, but just experiencing nature. And, uh, I, I feel like this, because we live in a detention economy right now, right? So, if companies can get our attention, they get money. And that clamor for our attention is exhausting.
JOSH DUNN 24:08
It is, and I’m in that space. I mean, I, I can’t do my world without partners and advertisers believing in us. And if all those go away to the new TikTok or just to YouTube. I am not viable financially now my Bible from a content and telling truth and human editing. Yeah, but if no one’s paying for it, that’s the hard part, right? That’s the sustainability of what’s this look like for the next 20 years. And, um, I believe in humans. I believe in truth. I believe in paying for talent and I still believe that great brands want to align with people like us. It’s not easy.
MARK WRIGHT 24:52
I just love that. And I think what you’ve touched on Josh, kind of a recurring theme on this podcast of BEATS WORKING, we’re talking to some really smart people from all over North America. All of them say that work is shifting and it’s realigning to a more human centric model where they have to value the total human being in every way. And, and they have to make that work experience feel good and it has to, it has to mean something. So, I’m, I think that your model is completely viable for as long as, as, as we have. Because when you believe in a company, you support a company. I mean, that’s, my belief is that, and, and my kids especially, when, when they believe in a company, they’re not worried about the cost. They just want to do business with this really cool company that’s making the world a better place.
JOSH DUNN 25:48
Yep. Totally agree, brother. Yep. Thank you.
MARK WRIGHT 25:51
Josh, I’d love to know, you’re a big believer in community service. Um, what’s your best advice to other business owners who want to take their community engagement to a deeper level, to a more genuine level? Because I’m thinking back, I heard you on a podcast where you talked about what you did at the outset of the pandemic. You, you called everybody in your network and clients and everybody and you said, hey, let’s, let’s come together and let’s talk. And you convened um, a bunch of people in a really positive way and you gave them value and, and that network was like, oh my gosh, what a brilliant idea. It’s not like, eh, everybody’s, you know, their hair’s on fire and oh, we’re all going to go out of business. You said, hey, let’s get together and figure out what we can do together to get through this thing. And I, I just think that, that’s just genius, and so talk to that business owner who really does want to get to that level of just deep roots in the community.
JOSH DUNN 26:49
Yeah, I think, um, maybe it’s just marked my style or my heart or the way I lead, but I don’t want to be alone at this. I also feel like, um, God’s given me some abilities and skill sets that’s not just for me personally, but how can I help others? And you referenced the whole pandemic kind of getting together and I look at today where what almost four years past pandemic or since the the birth of the pandemic and every one of those folks in that collective roundtable where we just rallied together, everyone is still in business today, which is beautiful, and it’s been dark. We’ve had tears. We’ve had drinks. We’ve had scary moments. We’ve also had health scares, some have been in the hospital, but we’ve rallied and come through it. I also believe with that, how can we help our community? And as a media person, as an entrepreneur, um, there’s skill sets that I can serve and give back. And the problem is what you see often with people that want to serve is there’s a motive there. They want to, what kind of deals can I get out of this? Or what kind of relationships can I borrow or, or earn or get their business? But if you go back, how can I make this board better? How can I make this organization better? These boards, these nonprofits, these organizations, these community groups, they need leadership, they need talent, they need time, they need treasure. They need all of this stuff. So, if you have skill sets in any one of those areas, why not dedicate a fraction of your life to give back? And I love serving, I mean, even higher ed. I’ve served on several boards for, and right now with, um, UW Tacoma School of Business, with Milgaard School of Business, um, a great university. Go Huskies! Yet, you know, I didn’t finish my own collegiate professional life, but I believe in giving back. I believe in scholarships. I believe in giving you know, access to folks that just need that encouragement, that inspiration. But in the middle of doing that all these years, Mark, you do get, you do benefit. You benefit from your own leadership ability. You build a, a bench of amazing relationships. You build a treasure cove of resources that you’ve impacted your community. And yes, you know what? Your brand is better off because you’ve been serving. So, um, it helps you as a leader. It helps the community benefit, it helps the organization. And I really do think all of us should find ways to give back. Even coaching. You know, coach kids. And give back. And work the sidelines or work the scorecard. Um, just it’s good for us to serve and to give back and not just take from our community.
MARK WRIGHT 29:38
That’s, that’s awesome, Josh. Um, I’ve talked to a whole bunch of really high-level entrepreneurs on the podcast and, uh, all of those entrepreneurs have this quality about them. Um, they have a drive to be completely genuine in all aspects of their lives. It’s not like they have a personal brand and then there’s the business brand. They believe that there’s no distinction. That the way that they show up in the world has to be consistent. Um, do you, I’m guessing that you, you kind of subscribe to that, right? You don’t put on your Josh at home hat and start beating the dog or anything like that.
JOSH DUNN 30:17
Right. Yeah. If you start. Uh, seeing me shove my face full and, and gain a hundred pounds. It’s not really good leadership for your company. They’re going to wonder, is Josh okay? You know, I think it’s important. I think healthy living is healthy, mentally healthy, physically, financially, culture, relationally with your family. Um, I do believe, uh, I I’m yeah, I think a lot of us are wired the same. Perhaps there’s this drive to be. Um, excellent. Yeah. Is it a drug? Yeah, probably so, right? It’s addictive, but yeah, you want to, you want to benchmark and level up on every layer of your life. And there’s times where we suck in certain areas, and we’ll go focus over there or go focus over here. There’s always something, at least for me specifically, markers. I’m always wanting to, um, be healthier somewhere, right? As a dad, as a husband, financially, as a leader, there’s all, there’s, trust me, there’s plenty of areas I can grow in.
MARK WRIGHT 30:19
Josh, tell me about the new column that you guys have called Lead and Follow. Um, it sounds like you’ve been a student of leadership since the very beginning. So, this sounds like a cool project.
JOSH DUNN 31:28
I mean, I love leadership, I subscribe to, there’s many leadership access points I can get, uh, and I felt like, man, why not create a column, a consistent human written column in design around great people that are not just good leaders, but also worth following. And so we started this a little over a year ago coming right through COVID and it’s, it’s in print, it’s in digital, it’s in social platforms, and it’s turned out to be a widely, you know, wildly successful engagement that, um, people are pitching their CEO, they’re pitching their owner, can you feature my, my guy or gal, they’re doing amazing work in the community and, and it’s just fun to have a platform that we can kind of peel behind the curtain a little bit and get to know about that the humanity behind the leaders, some fun things, you know, your favorite car, your favorite podcast. Those are just fun to explore. Like what makes people tick?
MARK WRIGHT 32:23
Yeah. When it comes to leadership, Josh, what, what’s been the biggest, uh, reason for your success over the years and what were some of the challenges early on?
JOSH DUNN 32:32
Um, challenges is always this desire for more. Um, there’s a, it’s a, it’s a disease or it’s a drug. You just feel like you’re never enough. You always want to do more and with leadership, there’s times where it’s okay to turn the things off and put things away and you’re doing good work. And if you can grow 1 percent a week versus you want to grow, you know, 10 percent a day, it’s tough. But if you look at, you know, leveling up every day, this is very valuable. But there’s, you know, with that comes challenges. I have some skill sets, but I also have a lot of gaps. There’s a lot of, um, things I might forget or might come across wrong or my ego or my pride might get in the way. And how do you overcome that? Or I may have offended somebody or may have said the wrong thing. And that’s normal when it comes to leadership, when you’re running a crew and an amazing team, some, sometimes we say the wrong thing. So, the tone could come across wrong. Um, I found just apology and grace and forgiveness in the middle of all of it’s been very helpful with leadership. Um, I just had a meeting with our editors today and just very blessed that I look at our leadership team. I mean, golly, they’re 10 plus years on the leadership team. We’ve had no addition to our leadership team in a long time. And I’m not wanting to. I, I love our crew. I love our leaders. And it’s, but I know at times I’m gonna drive them nuts. And there’s times they’re gonna drive me nuts, but we all have a passion for our roles and responsibility and for the vision of what this is all about as a breath of fresh air. How can we continue to do that? So, yeah, I love leadership, Mark. It’s, it’s a lot of fun and it’s, it’s very, um, it’s difficult at times. You know, when you lead your kids or your soccer team or your company, there’s time you’re gonna fail a lot. Let’s be honest. And how do you overcome failure and how do you get your head wrapped around it?
MARK WRIGHT 34:23
Josh, one of the things that we like to ask guests on the podcast is their strategy when it comes to goal setting and, and achieving, because in business, sometimes it can feel arbitrary, but I’d love to pull the curtain back on, on that process. How, how do you set goals for the various brands that you have? And then how do you make sure you try to achieve them.
JOSH DUNN 34:44
Oh, Mark, you’re getting to some sweet spots here. I would say goal setting is a, a, an area of my life. I am passionate about goal setting. I, uh, review goals every day. I set a five-year goal. Um, I set five-year goal both personally, professionally. I, I put it out there so I can just, I have to have something in front of me to drive for. Um, even I look in my office, I have a vision board. I have creativity. I have, you know, slogans or sayings or things that inspire me of where I want to go, what I want to accomplish. And so goals, there’s company goals per brand, there’s company goals, um, per individual. Each buddy on the sales team has their own individual goal. So, their individual goals get wrapped up into company goals. Um, one thing that I’m passionate about on this area of goals is every year or every 18 months, I’ll step away and take time away and just turn everything off and go hide away for two to three days and have a personal retreat. And I think the value of having quietness and a personal retreat to let your brain kind of think and orchestrate what you want your life to be in all areas. Where are you winning? Where are you losing? Where do you want to grow and that’s been a big piece to me for the last probably 10 years, Mark, I started doing a personal retreat every year. And then we’ll incorporate that to a you know, business retreat with the staff and brainstorm and planning sessions um, yeah. I…
MARK WRIGHT 36:17
So, I heard you, Josh, say that you, so you’re talking to your employees to the, to the extent that you understand what they want to get out of their careers, right? And then, then you can, then you can try to find out where in the bigger picture that you can, you can make that happen, right?
JOSH DUNN 36:34
Yeah, for sure. I have to, I want to know, um, certainly I can put my goals on them, but that may not be the best-case scenario for them. What do they want to accomplish? You know, from a journalism standpoint, what awards do you want to go after this year, what design challenges you want to incorporate? How many more readers do you want to accomplish? Sales perspective, how many more cold calls? How many more pieces of new business? What’s your renewal rate going to be? What’s your total sales? How can I help you? How can I come along and be part of your journey? But all those roll up into a company strategy as well as my personal strategy. So, they’re all intertwined in many levels.
MARK WRIGHT 37:11
Um, I have to ask you, you, I think you’re in the process of writing a book, correct?
JOSH DUNN 37:17
Yes, this process has been going on, Mark, for like five years.
MARK WRIGHT 37:21
Well, give us a little taste, Josh, if you will.
JOSH DUNN 37:25
So, I love to write. Um, I find writing very healing and a good distraction from the, uh, typical, um, schedule of my life. But I’m getting closer and closer, and the strategy of this book, uh, most likely, I’ll just put it out there, is 425 ways to grow your business, start your business, or extend your business. And I just feel like all these years of, I’m no expert, I’m, I’m, all these ideas are not new. I’ve been borrowing them, reading them, watching them, stealing them, doing them, but I’m looking for a book that I can help entrepreneurs, businesses, leaders to find, if I can get 10 things to help my company today, I would assume out of 425 ways to start and grow your business, um, there would hopefully be one or two ideas in there that I can encourage them on. You know, just even basics, Mark, of serving your community. You know, I don’t think people talk about that very much. And I think people think to serve the community, I’m going to join some committee so I can go get deals or go earn business. That’s the wrong heart to have. Right? So.
MARK WRIGHT 38:30
That’s a big lesson, um, that I learned, uh, by joining the Rotary Club of, uh, Spokane way back in the day when I was a reporter in Spokane. I was out on a story and a, and a guy said, hey, have you thought about, Joining the Rotary Club. And I said, I don’t know, what’s Rotary? He said, well, it’s so pretty much everybody, you know, the top leaders in town get together for lunch once a week and we talk about what’s going on in the city and we also do a service projects to try to make the world a better place. So that sounds fun. So, I, I went to a meeting, and I just absolutely fell in love with, with the organization and, um, and still, uh, a member of the, uh, Downtown Seattle club served as president, uh. From 2017, 2018, but you’re exactly right, Josh, that the, the kind of people that come through the door that ask, what am I going to get out of this? Are the exact wrong people for, for the organization. And I think that’s the beauty of life is that when you go into any relationship with an attitude of, I don’t care if I get something back. I just want to see if I can help you maybe make your day better. Maybe make your life better. And when you have that attitude, stuff comes back, it just always comes back. And, uh, I just, it’s such a, it’s such a freeing way to live too, because that tension that is brought on by the expectation of, of trying to get something, it’s like my boss, Dan Rogers always says the universe is a pull, not a push. So, if you, if you attract good things to you by the way you conduct your life. That’s how it works. But if you’re pushing your agenda, it’s a lot harder.
JOSH DUNN 40:03
It’s kind of, like, really hard. We see people like that in our lives. They’re like, how we know…
MARK WRIGHT 40:08
Hey, what’s gonna take the blah blah. Seriously? Talk to the hand, talk to the hand. I have to ask you Josh, on the questionnaire that we send out to our, our guests, you said that you went from tragedy to newfound work life rhythm after falling off the roof headfirst. Is that right?
JOSH DUNN 40:29
Unfortunately, yeah, Mark, it’s correct. It’s probably what she’s five, seven years ago. Um, I was cleaning the roof, second level, pressure washing, getting all the crap out of the gutters, and um, as I’m getting off the roof, the ladder gave away, and, you know, it’s all wet and slimy, and, um, and sadly, I, I, on the way down, I’m thinking, I’ll, I’ll just grab the gutter on the way down to slow my landing. But it ended up flipping me, and then I flipped and hit head first onto the patio. And so yeah, tragic, um, severe concussion, um, head trauma, I’m alive, I’m well. But interesting, if you’re, I had never been in a concussed environment before. I’ve been, my daughter had had some severe concussions. I didn’t, I didn’t relate very well, unfortunately. But those that have had brain, um, trauma or concussions, it is interesting how your life is totally different. Noises, sounds, exhaustion, a lot happens. And so, for me, I had to radically, it’s been a blessing in disguise because I radically had to change how I do life. I had to slow things down, I had to process things, I forgot people’s names. I’ve always been so good at networking and connecting and people’s names and you go to an event and you’re just man. I’m right. I recognize your face, but I forgot your name and just remember being so embarrassed. And so just to maintain the workload or try to do life differently, I reallocated my time my schedule so that every Wednesday, and I’ll even talk about this in the book It’s amazing that every Wednesday has now been all these years as a Do Not Disturb. There is no appointments. There is no phone calls. There’s, it’s really all work a little bit on the company. But it’s really a day to spend with myself. In the middle of the work week, I just have to have a way to get healthy, whether it’s going for a walk, a run, exercise, golf, spa, writing a book. Those have all been areas that have been amazing. So even today my staff knows just, you know, don’t call, don’t text. Um, Wednesdays is my private day. And now it’s become such an asset that those Mondays and Tuesdays I’m grinding hard. Because I also know Wednesday is my quiet day. I can read or get caught up on projects, and I’ve found that in the middle of all that chaos, it’s actually probably made me maybe a better leader, I can think clearer, I can process differently, I can pace myself differently, I can work on heavy projects with quietness, we’re not, we’re not good at giving ourselves quiet times. You know, we’re, we’re, we’re just tend to be very onto the next project and go, go, go. So, in the middle of all that, Mark, yeah, I, I did have a unfortunate fall off the roof. I’m alive and well.
MARK WRIGHT 43:18
And so, your brain has been permanently changed from that? Wow. Well, at least you, you have the wisdom to, to know how to adapt life so that it’s, it’s still really good. Wow. That’s, that’s amazing. I love what you say about contemplation, Josh, because I feel like our society is such that even now in the workplace, someone will say, hey, the boss is coming, you know, look busy and it’s like, it’s like, but what if you’re that person, you know, but you should be that person that every once in a while just like stares out the window and thinks up like a cool new idea. Instead of just like typing at your keyboard like looking busy. And so yeah, I feel like we don’t reward the contemplators of the world, I mean, we, we kind of we kind of call them out. It’s like what are you doing? What are you doing? Get back to work.
JOSH DUNN 44:14
Yeah, it’s funny. You mentioned that because I was joke with my parents the other day. I was getting teachers would notify my family, you know, Josh is always staring out the window. He’s not focused. And he’s a daydreamer. And why is that a bad thing? And I look at my life today and, interesting enough, I’m proud to say I’m a dreamer. I have signs in my office. I love dreaming. And it’s healthy to dream. It’s okay to daydream. A lot of good things can come out of this. And we’re, we’re not the best with our young folk to allow them and to encourage them. It’s okay to daydream. It’s okay to stare out the window. Good things are coming.
MARK WRIGHT 44:58
That’s awesome. Well, I think it was Einstein that said imagination is more important than intelligence.
JOSH DUNN 45:03
Yeah, that’s been my excuse.
MARK WRIGHT 45:06
Yeah, yeah. I love it. Well, Josh, as we, as we kind of wind things up, I’d love to, I mean, one of the reasons that, uh, my friend, Alysse Bryson, who works with us at WORKP2P here, you know her very well. One of the reasons that she suggested having you on the podcast is that just the way you show up in the world and the way that you run your businesses. In such an honorable way, she felt that, you know, that’s, that’s redeeming work. And we’re on this mission to redeem work. And that is just to show that work can be amazingly honorable and beneficial for everyone involved. If we all do our part. And I feel like as we wrap this up, Josh, what does redeemed work look like to you?
JOSH DUNN 45:50
I mean, I agree. I think we have to, we should, we should look at our life as redeemed as well, like, we’re all human, we’re all gonna make mistakes, we have to have grace, we have to have truth, forgiveness, honorable, I think it’s good to honor talent, it’s good to honor ideas, um, I think as fellow humans working side by side on projects, we’re not all the same, we’re all different. And it’s okay not to agree, I think right now we’re also in this space where, if you’re not with me, you’re against me, and that’s not redeeming work. And even my own family or my wife, we may not be on the same page, or I may not agree on something, but it’s okay. I love you the way you are, and I think even with our staff or work, or, we just have to be, just a little more grace, and not be so quick to, um, criticize or assume if you say this, you’re gonna be all that, and I can’t align. But redeeming is like humanity, like we’re, we’re all different. We all have different biases and different lens, and we’re all raised differently. But that’s okay. You don’t have to be all the same way I was or the same way you were. We’re not gonna agree and it’s okay. It’s, it’s absolutely okay to do this together with different viewpoints, different ideas. Now, if you’re doing the work with different organizations, you gotta be honorable to the brand. You gotta be honorable to the culture. You got to be honorable to their mission, and if you do that with that heart of redemption, I think that’s perfect.
MARK WRIGHT 47:20
Wow. That’s well said, Josh. I, um, am a member of the Community Development Roundtable, which is a leadership group sponsored by the Seattle Chamber of Commerce, and, uh, week and a half ago at our lunch, they said, uh, and happy birthday to Dan Evans, 98 years old. And he kind of waved and, uh, and I’ve told him this over the years that, you know, that era of politician, uh, I, I just long for again. Um, the kind of politician that reached across the aisle with other people that understood the art of compromise and integrity and there’s so much yelling and like you say, especially in politics now that that if you don’t believe my way then you’re our enemy. Yeah, we’re not going to get anywhere with that. And I really long for politicians like Dan Evans again, um, because I think we need that. And I’m, I’m hopeful that some will, some will rise up.
JOSH DUNN 48:21
Hopefully this next gen we’ll figure that out for us, Mark. But right now, it’s a little gnarly.
MARK WRIGHT 48:27
Yep, it is. Well, I love what you said when people ask you what your mission is, and that is just to be a breath of fresh air with incredible storytelling in a non-polarizing media. And I think that is exactly what we need in media today. So, Josh Dunn, it’s been such a pleasure talking with you and keep up the great work.
JOSH DUNN 48:46
Thanks, Mark. Appreciate the opportunity.
MARK WRIGHT 48:48
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P family. New episodes drop every Monday. And if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING, where we are winning the game of work.
