Welcome to “Sidekick Sessions,” a spinoff of the “BEATS WORKING” podcast, where we gather the team at WORKP2P and do a deep dive with a previous guest.
This month, we’re discussing work and your health with Seattle metabolic expert Dr. Emily Cooper. We spend so much of our lives at work that it makes sense to examine the positive and negative impacts of work on our health.
Dr. Cooper has studied and treated patients with metabolic dysfunction for decades. In this episode, she shares a range of advice to optimize our health at work and home.
The science of metabolism is also the focus of our brand-new podcast, “Fat Science,” featuring Dr. Cooper. It’s available right now on all platforms. There is so much conflicting information about why we get fat and how to lose weight. The goal of “Fat Science” is simply to focus on what the science says, and as we say on the show: “No diets. No agendas. Just science that makes you feel better.”
Resources from the episode:
- Listen to “Fat Science” and join the conversation here.
- Learn more about Dr. Cooper and the work she does by visiting her website.
- Dr. Cooper’s nonprofit, the Diabesity Research Institute, is on a mission to increase access to effective, science-based medical care for those suffering from or at risk for diabesity. Learn more about it here.
BEATS WORKING is a platform on a mission to redeem work – the word, the place, and the way. We believe that work is the most honorable act in the universe, and through inspiring stories and practical insights, we want to transform the way people think about work and help them discover greater fulfillment in their lives. We invite you to join us as we build community through sharing and actively demonstrating what we learn.
Stay up to date with us on Instagram (@beatsworkingshow), LinkedIn (@BEATS WORKING show), or YouTube (@BEATSWORKINGPODCAST).
If you have a show idea, feedback, or just want to connect, email host Mark Wright at mark@beatsworking.show.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Dr. Emily Cooper, Alysse Bryson, Elan Olsen, Tamar Medford, and Mark Wright
DR. EMILY COOPER 00:00
If your sleep is disrupted, for example, say you’re worried at night about the work that you didn’t get to, you’re falling behind, and so your mind is racing at night, you’re checking your emails before you go to bed, obviously your sleep quality will be reduced as well as the sleep duration. And when that happens, your metabolic hormones don’t balance correctly, and that can lead to increased stress hormones, such as cortisol, and increased hormones such as ghrelin, which makes you feel hungry, more hungry and slower. It actually affects our locomotion, which means if our ghrelin is high, we actually don’t move around as much, we want to stay more sedentary. So, the stress impact can be huge, and it can just accelerate all types of metabolic dysfunction.
MARK WRIGHT 00:50
This is the BEATS WORKING show. We’re on a mission to redeem work – the word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to Sidekick Sessions. This month, we’re talking about work and your health. You know, we spend so much of our lives at work, it just makes sense to examine the impacts it can have on us, both positive and negative. Our mission at WORKP2P is to redeem work, to make work better for everyone. So, being healthy at work and at home really aligns with that overall mission. So, our guest this month is Dr. Emily Cooper. She has studied and treated metabolic dysfunction for decades. Inside this episode, Dr. Cooper shares a range of advice to optimize our health by lowering stress, eating right, and just being good to our bodies and minds. The science of metabolism is also the focus of a brand-new podcast we’re producing featuring Dr. Cooper, her childhood friend Andrea Taylor, and me. It’s called Fat Science, and it’s available right now wherever you get your favorite podcasts. There is so much conflicting information out there about why we get fat and how to lose weight. Our goal is simply to focus on what the science says. And as we say on that podcast, Fat Science is no diets, no agendas, just science that makes you feel better. Alright, let’s get to the show. Welcome to Sidekick Sessions, a spinoff of the BEATS WORKING podcast, brought to you by the folks at WORKP2P. It’s great to have all of you here. Sidekick Sessions is when we gather the staff responsible for producing our podcast, and we bring a past guest from the show on to talk about a particular topic. And since Dr. Emily Cooper was on the BEATS WORKING podcast this past week, and one of the things that we talked about was metabolic health, I thought, hmm, you know, since work is such a big part of our lives, um, let’s talk about work and our health and as those two things relate. So, Dr. Emily Cooper from the Cooper Center for Metabolism in Seattle, it’s great to have you back on the show. Good to see you.
DR. EMILY COOPER 02:59
Good to see you guys too. Thanks for having me.
MARK WRIGHT 03:03
All right. We’ve got the team assembled too. I feel like it’s, I feel like this is a superhero show. Team has assembled from BEATS WORKING. So, uh, let’s start with Alysse Bryson and the team’s going to introduce themselves. Alysse.
ALYSSE BRYSON 03:14
Heyo! It’s the Sidekick Superheroes! That’s what it feels like, you know, with our mask icons. Uh, for those of you listening at home that can’t see anything, just go to our website, WORKP2P.com, and check out the about section, and you can see our Sidekick icons. They’re pretty cool. I got one tattooed on my ankle. I’m the Vice President of Community Development.
TAMAR MEDFORD 03:36
Hey everyone, my name’s Tamar Medford, and I am the producer of the BEATS WORKING show, and it’s so, I’m so grateful to be here today.
ELAN OLSEN 03:45
Hey guys, I’m Elan Olsen, and I am the creative sidekick for BEATS WORKING.
MARK WRIGHT 03:52
Alright, thanks for being here team, and especially Dr. Cooper. So, Dr. Cooper, in your practice you treat people for what’s called metabolic dysfunction or metabolic syndrome. Um, I’d love for you to talk about just work in general and how that relates to health because we spend so much of our, our lives at work. So, if you could take it there and just give us an overview of the impact that work can have on our health.
DR. EMILY COOPER 04:18
We do. We spend so much time at work and it’s really important to consider it as kind of a second home and the environment at the workplace, whether it’s a remote office or a commercial office space could really be introducing certain things that might actually wear our health, wear down our health. And so, especially the metabolism. And so, it’s good to be aware of some of those things. Um, but having, you know, we always talk about work life balance and that is really important, the work life balance. And so hopefully people that are, you know, getting to work feel ready for work when they get there because they’re rested, and they have that balance in their lives. It’s particularly hard for some people such as single parents, um, you know, who are managing kids at home and then traveling to work and things come up. So, so I think work life balance and then focusing on the environment. Uh, the office space, whether it’s a home office or commercial office space, does a lot to really protect your metabolic health.
MARK WRIGHT 05:22
So, let’s talk a little bit more about just the idea that if, if things are going poorly at work, Dr. Cooper, what kind of impacts can that have on your health?
DR. EMILY COOPER 05:30
Well, yeah, you know, if your sleep is disrupted, for example, say you’re worried at night about the work that you didn’t get to, you’re falling behind and so your mind is racing at night, you’re checking your emails before you go to bed. You’re obviously your sleep quality will be reduced as well as the sleep duration. And when that happens, your metabolic hormones don’t balance correctly. And that can lead to increased stress hormones such as cortisol and increased hormones such as ghrelin, which makes you feel hungry, more hungry and slower. It actually affects our locomotion, which means if our ghrelin is high, we actually don’t move around as much. We want to stay more sedentary. So, it, the stress impact can be huge and it can just accelerate all types of metabolic dysfunction, whether it’s your inflammation markers or it’s your, it’s your, um, ghrelin levels, your leptin levels, things that your blood sugar, your insulin, um, even your cholesterol actually can be affected.
MARK WRIGHT 06:33
So, it seems like Dr. Cooper, that there’s not really like two versions of ourself, our work version and our home version. It’s actually one version of who we are that has to navigate these two spaces, right? And what, what happens in one area of our life does have a, can have a big impact on, on other areas, right?
DR. EMILY COOPER 06:51
It’s so true. It really is. And that’s why it’s great if you’re in a work environment where that’s kind of appreciated and celebrated, I think that workspaces and companies have come far since we were hit with COVID and the pandemic. I think it really made us reevaluate the way we mix our, our life responsibilities and our work responsibilities and led to more flexibility in general in the workspace, which I think has actually helped to some extent, but it’s introduced some new stressors as well.
MARK WRIGHT 07:24
Um, I’d like to bring Alysse into the conversation now. Alysse, I know that, uh, I mean, you are a super hard worker, um, and you had, uh, kind of a health scare not too many years ago because you just had, I guess, your head down buried in work and, and just worked so hard that your body kind of said, time out. Are you, are you comfortable kind of sharing with us what happened?
ALYSSE BRYSON 07:47
Sure I am. I’ve had a handful of health scares, but I think I know the one you’re talking about. So, uh, you mentioned single parenting, so I am and have been a single parent my entire adult life. And, uh, I was very much a workaholic in a past career. Um, I, I, I am also a person that identifies as being in long term recovery from alcohol and substance use disorder. And so, it’s very normal for people, um, that are dealing with that, for their addictions to transfer over into things like work, shopping. You name it. And so, for me, um, my identity and my persona got very wrapped up in the job that I had. And I was working very long hours, going to lots of events. I had a very long commute. On top of that, I’m, I was also doing a lot of volunteer work and oh, by the way, I’m parenting too. And so that left me at the age of 40, um, with, uh, having an emergency heart surgery. Um, and unfortunately it happened the week before Libby’s wedding. And so, I did not get to attend her wedding either. Um, and so that was a real eye opener. Um, for me, that was definitely a point in which I realized that I had to take a look at very seriously figuring out how to have a work life balance. And I was not able to figure it out at, at the job where I was experiencing that. So, I left and in the places I’ve been since I have been able to, for the most part, I still, I still do have a tendency to slip into workaholism. You know, I grew up, both my parents were really hard workers. My mom was a schoolteacher. My dad was an accountant, and they were at school. I mean, they were at school and at work all the time. And so that is what I grew up watching and modeling. Like. If you’re a hard worker, um, that’s a good thing. And, and I love to work actually, especially the kinds of things that I work on. And so, it can be a little bit of a slippery slope for me.
MARK WRIGHT 09:50
And we should mention Libby is part of the, uh, WORKP2P team here, but is not on this episode. Um, but, but I’d love to ask you, Alysse, was your body giving you warning signs before that, or did you just have this attitude of just, you know, I, I had a coworker one time who told me, you know, I can sleep when I’m dead and just had this just really hardcore attitude. Did your body give you any, any sort of warning?
ALYSSE BRYSON 10:17
You know, it’s interesting that you say that, Mark, because it did. I didn’t realize it at the time, but, you know, hindsight being 20/20, when I look back at the things I was experiencing, um, my gums were bleeding excessively, and I thought that was weird. I just chalked it up to I’m not flossing well enough, right? Um, I started getting winded at silly things like making the bed. Um, but then other times I could work out and be totally fine. So, I was getting winded at unexpected times. And then I very specifically remember there being a night when I googled forgetting to breathe because that is what I felt like I was experiencing. Like I would just all the sudden start gasping for air as if I had forgotten to breathe, which we know is not possible. Um, and so that was, that was a really, that was, that was very scary. And then I actually started experiencing anginas leading up to my heart surgery. I think that word, I cannot say that word and keep a straight face. I’m so sorry.
MARK WRIGHT 11:19
Pain in the chest. We could just call it, call it that.
ALYSSE BRYSON 11:22
Pain in the chest. And, um, I didn’t, I didn’t know, you know, I thought I was having like panic attacks. I didn’t know what it was. Um, and they were progressively getting, becoming more frequent and getting worse.
MARK WRIGHT 11:33
Dr. Cooper, any thoughts?
DR. EMILY COOPER 11:35
Yeah. I mean, all of those symptoms are really alarming, and you could see that if you’re a workaholic, you sort of just have tunnel vision and drown out all those input signals that something’s wrong and just stay focused on your work and I can definitely see that is not, that’s like a perfect storm about to happen.
ALYSSE BRYSON 11:55
There was one moment that I’m not proud of, but at this point, um, I had been to see a cardiologist. We had this stress test, and the heart echo was scheduled, and he’d given me nitroglycerin, and told me that if I, uh, was experiencing these symptoms that I should take one, and if they didn’t go away immediately, that I should take a second one and call 9-1-1. So, the way I process that information is if I took it and it worked, that I could just go about my business. I didn’t realize if I took it even once that I was, I should have called him and told him, hey, I’ve taken this. And so, between the time he gave me the prescription and the time I went in for my stress test, I took it 16 times. Um, and one of those times I can very specifically remember I was at work, it happened and I kind of lost a little bit of the use of my arms and Libby had to come in and help me open up the, the, the pills and help me put it on my tongue, and then it worked, and I went right back to work. I mean, that’s, I went right back to work. It, it’s, I look back now, and I don’t even know who that person was. Um, but it was, you know, that seemed very normal for me at the time.
MARK WRIGHT 12:59
Dr. Cooper, what does nitroglycerin do when, when people have heart problems?
DR. EMILY COOPER 13:03
It quickly dilates the arteries to supply more blood flow to the heart muscle to give it more oxygen. So, um,
MARK WRIGHT 13:11
I remember my grandfather used to take, take those and put them under his tongue and he eventually died of a massive heart attack.
DR. EMILY COOPER 13:16
Yeah. It’s not a good sign.
MARK WRIGHT 13:17
We’ve come a long way since, since then. But Dr. Cooper, when you, when you see patients who are clearly sort of worn out from their jobs, well, how do you get people back on track?
DR. EMILY COOPER 13:28
It’s tough. It really is. I mean, I think people bring a lot of it on themselves and that’s one thing I’ve noticed, especially you would think that switching to the remote work that so many people have been doing, you would think that would actually improve the work life balance, but for a lot of our patients, it’s been the opposite and they just don’t know when to stop working now. So, and they just sit at their desk and work all day longer hours than they were working before because they’re no longer commuting and breaking up their day that way. So, I think it’s just reminding them. It’s, you know, you have to set timers to take a break. You need to take breaks to hydrate, get nourished. You need to really make, set better boundaries at work as well, because I think a lot of, unfortunately, sometimes employers don’t realize this, and so then their expectations go up about what kind of work product you can, you can put out. And so, um, just being honest with yourself about that balance, I think is important, whether you’re working at home or, or in an office space.
MARK WRIGHT 14:36
So, Alysse, I’d like to know, how are things going now, health wise?
ALYSSE BRYSON 14:39
Not great, again. Uh, my blood pressure has spiked. Um, so, well, I’m a new patient of Dr. Cooper’s office. And, uh, a couple weeks ago, they encouraged me to start tracking my blood pressure morning and night. So, I pulled out the trusty old machine, dusted it off, and was really surprised that the first day that I took it, my blood pressure was 220 over 113. And, um, so I ended up doing a couple of ER visits and, um, I’m getting it back under control. Um, I had an appointment yesterday with a cardiologist and it, um, there was a, a real lack of bedside manner. I don’t know any other way to put it. Um, I did not feel heard. Um, and so long story short. I’m going to get a new cardiologist. I felt very judged and unheard and that they just wanted to throw more medication at the problem, uh, and, and, and not get to the root of why it was happening.
MARK WRIGHT 15:42
I’d like to bring in Elan at this point. Elan, can you give me an idea of just, I’d love to hear your perspective on what you do to, to stay healthy, to stay balanced and to keep work in its proper perspective. You’ve got some incredible, uh, sort of outside work hobbies that I think would probably do your health well. You’re a beekeeper and you’re also in a band. Uh, so give me, but I’d love your perspective on this. How do you balance work and health?
ELAN OLSEN 16:10
I actually find balancing work and prioritizing my health really difficult just because all the other things and you know, it’s easy for me to say well, I’m taking care of my mental health with music and with beekeeping and with my animals, and I’ve got a lot of really fulfilling relationships. I have got a great community. I’m a spiritual person but when it comes to my physical being this vessel my soul lives in, I really don’t prioritize it and I find myself using work as a really convenient excuse not to prioritize it because other people experience that. So I work in a place that I’m very free to say I need to check my energy, my nutrition, my hydration. I’m very invited to share those kind of internal checks with my coworkers, my bosses, and my community. It’s very welcomed and it’s very taken care of and heard in that space. But, you know, talking to other people, a lot of people don’t experience that kind of freedom in their workspace. And so, it’s really easy for me to use that in social situations as a reason why I’m not prioritizing my health. And in terms of physical activity, I’m just not a gym person. In my past, I’ve been a flying trapeze artist, and without that in my life currently, I just I’m a potato. So, I wouldn’t, it’s getting really, really real. My biggest struggle is food. I try and even hack myself into being more productive around food, but I hate the time and energy it takes around preparing food. I get tired of food. It’s not that I’m actively restricting, I just literally would rather do anything else than cook. I’ve started a website where I put recipes to try and motivate myself. I grew 50 percent of my food this year in my own backyard trying to hack myself into it keeping bees is another way of doing that. So, I would love to hear your thoughts, Dr. Cooper, around, making food a priority in a way that isn’t so draining to my psyche and my soul. And um, I, even if there’s resources that you have on like meal plans that are super scheduled because I’m a very check the box kind of person, you know, things like that.
DR. EMILY COOPER 18:59
Yeah. Well, it’s interesting to hear you because I’m thinking, well, if you were my patient, I would actually kind of get you straightened out and try to get you straightened out. But, um, yeah, I, I really feel like nutrition is our core foundation and it really is the only way that we can have the energy, reach our full potential, really. And so I’m always kind of like, well, yes, let’s come up with a plan so that someone like this who really is not, you know, has like a low food appetite and low food interest, how can you get on track because once you are on track, that interest will actually develop. It’ll spark it. So, a lot of times when we get really off track with our food, we do lose our hunger and our interest in food. It’s like part of it, part of that cycle. But once you start, I would set timers to eat at specific times, whether you want to or not. So, you have to be a little harder on yourself. Like you actually have to like, say, okay, this isn’t something negotiable. I’ve, this, I have to do this for my health. It’s the core foundation of my health. So, whether I’m hungry or not, what are some things that I could eat? And it’s not a time to think about complicated recipes and all that at all. It’s just like, keep it so simple. Packaged foods are fine. You know, food delivery is fine. Anything that sounds good, like sounds palatable. That’s what you want to start with and then, you know, figure out a few different snacks that sound like, oh, I could, I could eat that even if I’m not that hungry, a few different meals that are simple to access and just start getting on a pattern where you’re getting into that rhythm of meals and snacks throughout the day. And usually within three weeks, you’re going to wake up hungry and you’re going to think about, oh, I want, this is what I want. Not like there’s nothing that sounds good, but something that actually you’re craving. And those food, food cues will develop from just getting into a more established pattern. But dietitians are great for this kind of thing too. We, we actually have a dietitian in our clinic who’s been fabulous for patients who have this type of a situation going on. And most dietitians are very good at making suggestions and practical ideas, you know, for people that have like time limitations or appetite issues or medication side effects that inhibit their eating. So that’s kind of what you need. You need like to um, you know, medical, nutritional rehab to get back on track, um, and get those hormones to rebalance and all your food cues to kick back in.
ELAN OLSEN 21:42
So, what I’m hearing though is I’m not weird. You’ve experienced this before.
DR. EMILY COOPER 21:48
I have. Now the other interesting thing, there is an interesting other thing that could be going on. Some people, just genetically have an excess of some of the hormones the satiety hormones in their body and If they’re really high It is hard to have an appetite it is and so we actually do some measurements of those types of hormones but we still give the same advice even if you’re not hungry you still do have to do that, you know regular pattern of meals and snacks and because also then you want to bring your best to your workplace, your best to your home life, and it’s just not possible if you’re not fueled. Um, one reason that you’re not exercising is because you’re not fueled adequately, so you have no desire to go, you know, spend a bunch of energy. You don’t have that energy surplus that people have when they’re bounding out of bed and saying, oh, I just feel like going for a run, you know? So, first step, nutrition, rehab, and for at least a month of consistent eating, and then check in with yourself and see, oh, now do I have the energy to maybe be a little bit more physically active?
ELAN OLSEN 23:01
That’s really good. Thank you.
MARK WRIGHT 23:03
So as a patient of Dr. Cooper’s, I can kind of give the backstory to, um, you know, Dr. Cooper recommends scheduled eating so that your brain feels safe. When our brain feels like it’s not getting enough calories, that’s when our metabolism gets out of whack and then you start storing calories, uh, more than you should because your brain’s afraid it’s not going to get enough food. So that whole idea of scheduled eating, Dr. Cooper, explain if you would just what types of food. Uh, how many times a day, just, just a basic schedule that Elan could, could take away.
DR. EMILY COOPER 23:36
Yeah. And it’s, um, it’s the same, it kind of comes out of sports nutrition. Um, for example, the Olympic training center has a, a motto, never get hungry, never get thirsty for athletes. And that actually works also for non-athletes. It’s just staying ahead of your needs. And so, one way to do it would be. As soon as you wake up within, at least within an hour, that first hour, as soon as you can have a meal and people, some people like you might think, oh, that’s the last thing I wanted to. So even if you started out where you make that a snack at first. Um, that’s okay. And then a few hours later, have, eat again. And that would be a meal. Maybe if you started with a snack, it’d be a meal later, or if you start with a meal, it would be a snack and meals and snacks are just very based on size basically. But I tried to keep it very simple. So, what it is, is a combination of what’s called intuitive eating and mechanical eating. And the intuitive part is you can eat anything you want within certain parameters and the mechanical part is the parameters. So that the parameters are there just based on whether you’re hungry or not. And that has to do with the frequency of eating. Setting those timers so that all throughout the day, every few hours you’re eating something. And if it was a meal three hours ago, now it’s a snack and you just alternate that until it’s bedtime and you start that process within an hour of waking in the morning. So that’s the mechanical portion. And then also within that mechanical portion is the food groups. So, making sure that your meals contain carbohydrates in the form of starches, fats, and protein. So, all of those, they’re called macronutrients to make, create a balanced meal. And that’s for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And then the snacks to try to also balance those a little bit, if you can, you don’t have to hit all three food groups, but trying to get carbs for energy plus something with protein or fat for the snacks. And so that’s really the mechanical part. And the intuitive part is what you’re going to consume within those parameters. Then that’s up to you. And we do recommend avoiding chemical additives in the food supply. So having your garden is nice, you know, so you could eat real food. But, um, but again, when you don’t have much appetite or you’re kind of not really, you’re kind of turned off by cooking. It is good to just get some prepacket, pre-prepared foods that are pretty healthy, um, brands and things like that, that can fill in the gaps. And it’s okay even to eat energy bars, trail mix packs, things that are just really readily available.
MARK WRIGHT 26:29
That’s awesome advice and something I’ve learned from Dr. Cooper is that carbs are not bad. In fact, your brain uses a ton of energy in the form of glucose, which comes from carbs. So, as you’re eating those little snacks throughout the day, having carbs in those snacks is so important. Isn’t it, Dr. Cooper?
DR. EMILY COOPER 26:47
It really is. And it really makes your thinking faster. It makes, if you, if you are trying to do something physical, it gives you more physical energy as well. Yeah, it helps your mood. Helps your, it helps your mood also stabilize so that you’re not, you know, there’s a reason for that term hangry. And most of that is just, you know, disturbances of blood sugar regulation due to not eating regularly.
MARK WRIGHT 27:12
Oh, just ask my wife about that. I do suffer from that. I’d love to bring Tamar into the picture here. Tamar, what thoughts do you have in terms of this whole topic?
TAMAR MEDFORD 27:22
So many thoughts because I, too, live in long term recovery. And so, I tend to do everything to excess including work and you know, I actually had a situation probably about six years ago now, where I was the culture of the company was always everybody took pride on how late they stayed. And of course, I’m an early bird, so I would come in early instead. But it was always a competition, so you always felt that it was required that you work these really long hours and you keep your head down and because I’m already you know a bit of a perfectionist and I’m a workaholic, I took it to the extreme now, of course to instead of eating a well, well balanced diet because I was a chronic yo yo dieter at the time I would have you know, my cup of coffee in the morning and then have two Red Bulls In the morning, and right after that, when I got to work, because I’d want to keep that energy up, right? And I, I like to joke around. I like to keep things light. So, I feel like that also kind of, you know, the alcohol used to do that for me. And then the Red Bulls did that for me. And It got so bad to, you know, one day I’m sitting there and all of a sudden my left arm went completely numb. I had sharp pains in my chest and my coworkers like, are you okay? So, they drove me to emergency thinking I was having a heart attack, but it was actually stress. And it was because I was depriving myself of the calories I needed in a day and consuming an excessive amount of caffeine, sometimes even more than that. And so, I think for myself, I’ve completely gone off the diets now. I still struggle with the, you know, the mindset of like, oh, I’m, I’m having too much. I’m eating too many meals because I will wake up, you know, 5:30. And usually I’ll actually have a little bit of work time before I go up and I bring my partner a coffee. And I don’t often I’m going to eat within that first hour because I feel like if I have something, then I’m going to have a second breakfast. So, I’m like a hobbit, right? I’m having second Z’s and double lunch and double dinner kind of thing. And because my days can get quite long because I’m up so early, I feel like I’m overdoing it. And it’s difficult sometimes to get that out of your head, right? Because I mean, during the day when I’m just working, working, working, I often forget about eating entirely. Like I’ll, and I’ve never had a problem where I’ve just not wanted food. That’s not me. I have the, the genetics and the desire to eat yummy food, but you know, there’s, there’s times I’ll just, I’ll let it slide because it’s okay. I’m not having as many calories throughout the day. So that’s okay. And I really, I’m working to get rid of that mindset now.
DR. EMILY COOPER 30:05
That’s great to get rid of it because, um, it’s just a game that you’re kind of, that you end up playing with your brain and you can’t outsmart it. So, anything you’re doing where you’re feeling like, oh, it’s good. I didn’t get as many calories. Well, the next time you eat, it’s going to make you eat twice as many.
TAMAR MEDFORD 30:23
And I do have a question for you, Dr. Cooper. So. I will, you know, a few days a week, I’ll go to the gym now because what I’ve realized is when I go to the gym in the morning, I feel so much more energized during the day and I feel good, but the one thing that I’m not good at is actually consuming something before I go because you hear it everywhere, right? It’s like, oh, it’s good to exercise while you’re fasting. And I, I, you know, now hearing from you, I know that that’s not ideal, but what are some of those things that I could have in the morning, that will be good for my workout. Because I do like doing them in the morning.
DR. EMILY COOPER 31:00
And are they like how soon after you wake up? Do you go?
TAMAR MEDFORD 31:05
Oh about 15-20 minutes I’ll get up and get ready and I’m out the door.
DR. EMILY COOPER 31:09
Yeah, and so that situation is tough because there’s really not enough time to consume something and have that end up like in your muscles for energy, but it does keep the stress hormones lower. If you consume something, then during the exercise itself, your stress hormones will be lower and your heart rate will be a little bit lower at a higher workload, there’s something called cardiac drift that occurs where if you’re not fueled in an exercise session, your heart rate just keeps going up, up, up, even though you’re not working any harder technically. And so, um, but the thing that you could do would be to think about your snack before bed as being your pre workout fuel. So, you have your, your dinner, and what time is your dinner typically?
TAMAR MEDFORD 31:58
Usually around 5:30/6.
DR. EMILY COOPER 31:59
So that’s really early, um, because then can you imagine it’s been 12 hours, you know, between your last food and then your, your exercise potentially. But um, if you add a PM snack, that’s pretty hearty. Like almost a little mini dinner again, that would, would be a good idea. Um, because then as you go into the workout, you’re, you’re better fueled going into it and you could do something. How long is the workout?
TAMAR MEDFORD 32:32
Usually about 45 minutes.
DR. EMILY COOPER 32:33
Yeah. So, I mean, you could even drink a little bit of a sports drink during it instead of water. And that would also keep the stress hormones from acting up. And the other thing we’re trying to do by doing that is to prevent, again, the hunger signals from increasing, not because we’re worried you’re going to be hungry, but those signals broadcast to the body that you might be in a famine and they start to slow down your metabolism for the whole rest of the day. So if you consume a sports drink, it will help prevent your ghrelin, that hunger hormone from the stomach from increasing and it will help prevent your leptin, which is a beneficial security signal from your body fat and it will help prevent that from decreasing. So ultimately just doing the little things, the PM snack the night before and a sports drink during for the really early morning workout would improve the metabolic kind of consequences of that workout. So that’s, that’s, uh, we always advise our, our patients if possible, to wait to do the workout until you’ve eaten twice for the day, but sometimes you just can’t because you want to get that early morning in.
TAMAR MEDFORD 33:40
That’s amazing. Thank you.
MARK WRIGHT 33:41
I want to throw something out to the group as, as the only guy in the call. And I, I don’t think this is out of line because it just seems so, so obvious, but all of the women in my life, when I think back to my mom and when I look at what my wife does, the women in my life have all put the needs of other people first, and then if there’s time left over, they’ll do something for themselves, and I’ve heard a couple of us on the call here talk about, you know, well, I just, you know, I, I just kind of, I, I’m working, I’m helping other people, I’m doing this, I’m doing that. Dr. Cooper, do you see that as, as sort of a cultural thing that that women have to really deliberately take control of this stuff because their natural inclination is to serve other people before taking care of themselves.
DR. EMILY COOPER 34:26
You know, it’s so funny that you mentioned that because that was part of what I was thinking about with workplace health, um, especially for women leaders and, uh, women on teams. And the reason is there’s a biologic difference. So that’s what’s so interesting. And you’ve probably heard of the hormone oxytocin, and that is kind of nicknamed the intimacy hormone. But what’s really interesting is males and females have different reasons, different, uh, triggers for oxytocin production. They’re not, it’s not always the same. Um, but for women, Oxytocin levels increase when people trust them. So not women trusting others, but others trusting them. So, when they’re in a position where others trust them with something important, then what that woman’s oxytocin level increases. And oxytocin is a beneficial hormone. It’s beneficial for metabolism. It’s a feel-good hormone. It helps our social connectedness. And so, I was thinking of that too. Um, and so I think that is one way that women end up in that situation, which isn’t always good for them, where they’re willing to do things for others and they try, you know, they’re very nurturing. And they put themselves in that position where others can trust them a lot. And so, it does lead to other not healthy things too for women sometimes, codependency, um, enabling things like that. And so, women have to check themselves and see if that’s really what they’re doing is trying to drive up their oxytocin level by, by sacrificing their own needs all the time. And so, I think about that because it is, oxytocin is an important player in metabolism too. And sometimes we do want people’s oxytocin levels to increase, but there are healthier ways sometimes to do it. But being on a team environment at a work, you know, a work environment, having a good team where there’s really a lot of trust in their mutual trust back and forth, that does help solve a, oxytocin, especially for women on those teams. I think having an environment where you work that is very health friendly is the key, you know, where it’s okay to, to take a nutrition break as Elan was saying, you know, take a nutrition break. Um, it’s okay if you eat at your desk, some companies, you know, have rules, don’t eat at your desk or, you know, none of these nutrition breaks or don’t eat that food around customers or something. Um, but being very food permissive and, um, you know, to hydrate and nourish and all of that and to work as a team and to say no to your coworkers if you’re overloaded, you know, the communication. I think all of that is just part of that healthy environment.
MARK WRIGHT 37:23
So, I want to talk about the podcast that’s coming up featuring Dr. Emily Cooper and her childhood friend, Andrea Taylor, and I’m on the podcast as well. But before we get to the podcast, I just want to throw this out. I’ve been a patient of Dr. Cooper’s for 10 years. I have metabolic syndrome. I was in terrible shape 10 years ago. I was heavy. I had bad cholesterol, high blood sugar, high blood pressure. It was just really awful. Um, this last set of labs that we did at Dr. Cooper’s, she looked at my stress hormone. And said, Mark, your stress hormone has not been this low in, I think, a decade. And, and I think what’s the only thing that’s changed in the last year, and that is taking this job at WORKP2P. I started at the first of the year. So, it’s, it’s not just talk. This is literally measurable when, when we examine the human body and everything that’s going on the way that Dr. Cooper does with, with that feedback loop and the metabolism, you can actually measure the good and bad hormones and the good and bad indicators in our bodies. And I’m just so grateful for you, Dr. Cooper, that, that we’re starting to see on paper the results of, of this amazing lifestyle change.
DR. EMILY COOPER 38:37
It really has been a really healthy change, making that shift that you did. And it says a lot for WORKP2P that it provides an environment that is healthy for the employees and for the team.
MARK WRIGHT 38:50
So, Alysse, do you want to announce the big news in terms of what the new podcast is since you’re sort of our overarching leader of all this good stuff?
ALYSSE BRYSON 38:59
Well, I just love listening in on this conversation of you redeeming work, Mark. I mean, that’s, that’s what you’re talking about right now is that you have been actively redeeming work. Um, we are so excited to be launching Fat Science with Dr. Emily Cooper on November 13th. Available everywhere you get podcasts.
MARK WRIGHT 39:23
So Fat Science, Dr. Emily Cooper, we’re going to be breaking down the science of metabolism, the science of why we get fat. So, give us, give us a little bit of background on, you’ve been doing this for decades now. You’ve been treating metabolic dysfunction, metabolic syndrome. Um, Emily, there is so much, pardon the expression crap out there when it comes to nutrition and dieting and weight loss. It’s, it’s just it’s ridiculous. My, my instagram feed every day is telling me oh, you just have to fast this way and do this and do that. So, give us give us the background of what, what Fat Science is all about and, and the value that we’re going to get from it.
DR. EMILY COOPER 40:03
Yeah, there’s no shortage of advice out there before, before we came on here. I overheard another podcast, and it was the guest on was just saying so many things in detail about this biohacking that people are doing now trying to trick their bodies in all these different ways. And it’s really taking people the wrong direction. So, our goal with Fat Science is to really stick to the science behind metabolism and how it works and why people, some people store extra body fat and why people, some people, are prone to diabetes and what we really need to think about when, when we’re seeing these things, that these are symptoms of underlying metabolic dysfunction and what does that mean? And so, we’re just trying to break down the science and dispel a lot of the myths out there to give people some hope that there’s really, there are things that can be done to help restore better metabolic balance.
MARK WRIGHT 41:01
Yeah, and you know, you’ve, you’ve treated Olympic athletes. You had some of the most sophisticated equipment in the country at your clinic before any other doctors had it in their offices and athletes found out about you. You’ve treated people with anorexia nervosa. You’ve treated people who are so overweight that they can’t conceive, that they’ve stopped ovulating. So, this is, this is really a spectrum, isn’t it? In terms of how metabolic dysfunction shows up in people.
DR. EMILY COOPER 41:27
It really is. And it’s not only people with a high body weight that have metabolic dysfunction. People can have a low body weight or what’s considered a normal body weight and still have metabolic dysfunction that affects other things, not necessarily causing them to store extra fat, but it could cause disruption of normal blood sugar regulation and cause things like severe hypoglycemia, low blood sugar reactions, or as you said, failure to ovulate for women and low testosterone levels for men. And that can happen really at any weight because being weight prone is a genetic kind of predisposition and having metabolic dysfunction can be a genetic predisposition also, but they don’t always go together. So, we look at each person regardless of their body weight and try to look at what their metabolic system is doing and look for areas that may explain some of the, the problems that they’re having with their health. And if we see those, then it’s regardless of their body weight, it’s important to address those concerns.
MARK WRIGHT 42:33
Yeah. And we’ve talked about, we’ve already recorded four episodes and one of the episodes deals with, um, diet damage. So, you know, if, if anyone’s dieted in their lifetime, their brain remembers that, right?
DR. EMILY COOPER 42:46
It really does. And especially again, if you have certain genetics, if you have genetics that puts you at risk for abnormal body fat storage, for example, every time you’ve gone on a diet, it’s reinforcing a sense of famine in your body, whether it’s really true or not. And your body interprets that as a reason to just store more fat. So, In particular, some people get away with it if they don’t have the genetics, they can get away with it. But most of our patients have had a long history of dieting or under fueling just for decades before they come to see us. And that’s why we really enjoy when we see the kids, you know, early on and we can break that cycle within the family tree and the family structure.
MARK WRIGHT 43:34
I feel like we would be remiss if we didn’t talk a little bit about your friend, Andrea Taylor. The two of you grew up in the same neighborhood just outside New York City when you were little. Um, uh, it’s hard to explain. It’s hard to explain Andrea in, in just a few words, but she is the most colorful, flamboyant, interesting, hilarious person I think I’ve met in a very long time and she’s, she’s, we, we learned the other day that she was put on a diet starting at the age of eight. And has struggled her entire life, uh, with weight and metabolic dysfunction and, and she’s a patient of yours and is now, um, her health is redeemed. It’s just, it’s just unbelievable. When, when people ask you about Andrea, uh, Dr. Cooper, what, what do you say?
DR. EMILY COOPER 44:21
You know, I say a lot of the things you just said, and she’s really brilliant. And when I, I first reached out to Andrea over a decade ago, when I was trying to talk about metabolism and talking about the true cause of obesity and things like that, and why diets are so terrible. I mean, it might’ve been about 15 years ago. I reached out to Andrea mainly because she’s so good at her messaging and communication and I thought she might be able to help me because I was having terrible experiences where doctors were literally hanging up on me and yelling at me and I had some really terrible uh, encounters. And so, I told Andrea, this is too important to me to mess it up. What am I doing wrong? And the first thing she said to me after she listened to me go on and on, she said, no one wants to hear an angry doctor. First of all. So, so Andrea really gave me a language to discuss this without pushing those buttons as much, uh, with people who are sensitive about the topic. And so, I really am grateful to her for, for showing me the light there. And she’s always been very positive. And here’s a person who has grown up with this, you know, has dealt with this. And yet she, she’s really an inspiration to me because she’s more positive than I am about it and she’s more kind in her communication. And so, um, I’ve learned a lot from her and, um, I think, yeah, she’s very funny and brilliant. And she really can relate to others who are going through the same struggles that she has been.
MARK WRIGHT 46:01
I’d forgotten that she played such an instrumental role in how you sort of communicate to the outside world. But yeah, Andrea worked in marketing for some major, major corporations at a very high level. So, she is really good, really good at messaging and she’s just fun to be around. So Fat Science, the podcast…
ALYSSE BRYSON 46:20
November 13th.
MARK WRIGHT 46:23
Does the team have any metabolic questions before we let this expert go?
ELAN OLSEN 46:28
So many, but they’re very loaded. So, I think we’ll have to offline some of these questions I have, Dr. Cooper. But thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
MARK WRIGHT 46:43
Before we go, Dr. Cooper, I have to ask you about sleep. I think in the American work ethic, uh, people think it’s a badge of honor to go to bed really late, to get up really early, and to sacrifice sleep. Tell us why sleep is so important to health and metabolism in terms of our body weight.
DR. EMILY COOPER 47:03
Well, sleep’s where we really regenerate, and waste products are removed from our brain, and it’s flushed with new energy, um, so that we can, actually start the next day at a good place. Um, and it’s so important to be rested in terms of the sleep cycle. The deep slow wave sleep is very important for your metabolism. So, it’s that where you’re really in a deep sleep, not so much the dream state, but before you go and jump into a dream state, there’s a deep sleep period where your ghrelin and your leptin and other metabolic hormones really do their balancing act. And that whole process starts around midnight. And if you’re not asleep by midnight. It automatically will be thrown off balance and the same thing happens if you sleep less than seven and a half hours. Then you’re not doing as well the next day metabolically as if you had slept for seven and a half or more hours and achieved that deep sleep.
MARK WRIGHT 48:04
So, a stressed out, sleep deprived body is likely going to start storing fat, right?
DR. EMILY COOPER 48:11
If, especially if you’re genetically prone. You know, of course, as I said, there’s people that are not and they can do these behaviors and still not be prone to storing extra body fat. And they’ve actually done experiments with some people who are genetically what we call weight resistant, where it’s hard for them to actually gain extra weight. And they’ve tried to overfeed them and do everything they could think of to make them gain weight and they did not. They gained muscle, so, and these studies have been done for a long time repeated first in the prison system, uh, with male inmates, and then they did another one recently in Canada. But they’ve, you know, where they just force you to eat this huge buffet constantly and not move, and they measure all these things. So, there’s a real difference from person to person, but if you’re genetically prone, which really is probably over half our population, then that lack of sleep, It, it could start putting pounds on body fat on for sure. If you’re not genetically prone to the weight effect, it might be harder for you to tell it’s doing something because it most likely instead of putting the weight on, it will throw your hormone cycles off, testosterone or estrogen cycles, and it might throw your blood sugar regulation off.
MARK WRIGHT 49:30
All right, team. This has been super fun. Sidekick sessions. I’d love to hear one final statement from each of the team members. It could be inspiration. It could be what you learned today. Um, so, uh, Tamar, why don’t you start?
TAMAR MEDFORD 49:46
I feel like with this team that, you know, Mark, you mentioned it earlier, is that this is the first time I’ve actually had a position with a company where I’m kind of living out my purpose, you know, and the coworkers, I mean, you know, we work so well together. And like Elan said, right, there’s we have the freedom to be able to do those breaks to nourish ourselves. I mean, we all love cookies, um, for sure here, but there’s that trust. And there’s that I feel it’s just such a good culture, you know, within our group here that you know, when you’re living out your purpose, it’s a lot easier to be internally motivated to make the right choices when it comes to your health. And I feel like we get that here because never have I been so motivated to actually start to structure my day. You know, when I go to bed, when I wake up, what I eat during the day, then I have working here because there’s not the added stress that comes with a lot of corporate jobs. So, I would just say for people listening, if you’re stuck somewhere that you’re not happy, find somewhere that you love do what you love.
MARK WRIGHT 50:55
That’s awesome. Alysse. How about you?
ALYSSE BRYSON 50:58
I think what I love. Dr. Cooper is how much I am learning by working with you working with you on the podcast, working with you on this other training that we’re doing, as well as becoming a new patient, and it’s nice that I feel like I have finally landed in a place of care where I’m really being heard, and I’m not being judged, and that it’s a safe space, um, and I really feel very optimistic and hopeful about my future.
DR. EMILY COOPER 51:28
It’s wonderful to hear.
MARK WRIGHT 51:30
Elan.
ELAN OLSEN 51:31
Well, I’ve been thinking this whole time, how could I trick you into telling me that having one Big Mac a day was good for my health? But I think I’ll have to get you next time on that one. Um…
DR. EMILY COOPER 51:40
It’s better than not having anything.
ELAN OLSEN 51:45
You all heard it. It’s recorded. Um, I just, after having this conversation, I’m feeling in a very reflective place. I am feeling like I think I need help to address issues around food. I’m a very sleepy person, so you can’t get me there because I will sleep. But in terms of food and food restriction because of time and not wanting to do it, you know, rather than gaining weight, you know, I can get, it’s easier to get away with those kinds of behaviors when it’s not related to like a crisis, you know? So, I just, I’m, I’m thinking of the things in my past that have led me to this pattern, this routine that I’m in around food and yeah, I, um, I really appreciate, um, you helping me get to that space, so thank you.
MARK WRIGHT 52:42
I guess the thing that I’m sort of left with is that, and I’ve, I’ve had the benefit of knowing Dr. Cooper for 10 years now, and I learn something every time we have an appointment and even between appointments, but I think the biggest thing for me is that all of this stuff is not some sort of hack. So, if those of you listening, you know, be really careful with what you consume on your Instagram reel or your Facebook feed, most people who are giving this advice don’t have the credentials and don’t have the research to back it up that Dr. Cooper has done for decades now, both clinically and also research about, about metabolism. So, I feel like, um, I’m learning more than I ever have. And, and the message that I would have to, to people listening is you just have to start loving yourself, your body. You’ve got to give it enough sleep. You’ve got to give it the right food. You have to take care of it because we literally become what we eat and, and how we treat our bodies. And I feel like, I feel like the, you know, the podcast, Dr. Cooper, Fat Science is going to be such a bright light for people in, in such a, a fear based. You know, society that makes billions of dollars on yo yo diets. So um, I feel like we’re super lucky that we all came together here at WORKP2P and uh, we’re going to be doing some really fun work together and meaningful work. So um, Sidekicks, love you guys. Thanks for all your support and Dr. Cooper, we’ll talk soon.
DR. EMILY COOPER 54:16
That sounds great. Thanks Mark. Thanks everyone.
MARK WRIGHT 54:19
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P family. New episodes drop every Monday. And if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING, where we are winning the game of work.
