Nearly everyone has a side hustle these days, but if you think they’re just about making money, you might be missing out on a chance to make your life more fulfilling.
Welcome to Sidekick Sessions, part of the WORKP2P podcast family, where we gather the team (we call them sidekicks) responsible for producing the BEATS WORKING podcast and talk with a previous guest from the show.
This month, we’ve brought back business owner and people developer Jeff Kaas to talk about developing your side hustle, and here’s a spoiler: it’s not just about money.
Our team at WORKP2P and Jeff share what they’ve turned into side hustles, why they chose them, and what they get in return. Get ready for inspiration on cultivating things that make you feel alive into your side hustle. You never know where it will lead you.
Resources from the episode:
- Connect with Jeff on LinkedIn.
- Learn more about Kaas Tailored, their commitment to developing people, and their efforts to make the workplace one of joy and learning.
- Through his consulting company, Truth Bit Pull, Jeff helps guide organizations through their own transformation into sustainable cultures of continuous improvement. Get in touch with the team here.
- Learn more about BEATS WORKING and our mission to redeem work here.
- Get to know our Sidekicks and find ways to connect with them here.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Jeff Kaas, Tamar Medford, Libby Sundgren, Alysse Bryson, Elan Olsen, and Mark Wright
JEFF KAAS 00:00
It’s a spare time we have, you know, we have the, we have the work we have to do to pay the bills and then there’s another maybe 30 or 40 hours a week available to us. And, uh, and side hustles don’t have to be alone, so we can do that with our kids, or with our friends, whatever. So, I think why matters. And our motivation really matters on a side hustle. And, um, um, when life throws us curveballs, uh, that side hustle might present itself, uh, to us in a way that we didn’t expect. Um, but if we’re always looking for how do we serve humanity, how do we love our neighbors, something for sure shows up.
MARK WRIGHT 00:35
This is the BEATS WORKING show. We’re on a mission to redeem work – the word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to Sidekick Sessions, part of the BEATS WORKING podcast family. This month, we’ve brought back business owner and people developer, Jeff Kaas, to talk about developing your side hustle. And it’s not just about money. So in Sidekick Sessions, we gather the team responsible for producing the podcast, we call them Sidekicks, and we talk with a previous guest from the show. So, side hustles. It seems just about everyone has one these days, but if you think side hustles are just about making money, you might be missing out on a chance to make your life more meaningful, and I would argue more joyful. So Jeff’s side hustles are volunteering in the community and also consulting business leaders to teach them what he’s learned about growing people, growing a business, and we would argue redeeming work. The team and I also share our side hustles which are all very different and satisfying. I’d love to hear about your side hustle and how it’s enriching your life. You can always shoot me a note at mark@beats working.show. All right, here’s Jeff Kaas and the WORKP2P sidekicks. Welcome to Sidekick Sessions for the month of November. It’s so great to have all of you here. Joining us once again is one of our regulars, Jeff Kaas from Kaas Tailored. Jeff, it’s great to have you, man.
JEFF KAAS 02:07
Thanks for having me.
MARK WRIGHT 02:08
And the rest of the sidekicks are Elan, Tamar, Libby, Alysse. So, I’d love if you guys would introduce yourselves. Uh, Tamar, why don’t you go first?
TAMAR MEDFORD 02:18
My name is Tamar Medford, and I’m the producer of the BEATS WORKING podcast.
MARK WRIGHT 02:23
Libby.
LIBBY SUNDGREN 02:24
I am Libby Sundgren, and I am a content development guru and wordsmither over here for BEATS WORKING.
MARK WRIGHT 02:32
All right, Alysse.
ALYSSE BRYSON 02:33
I, uh, I oversee all the things. I’m the bossy sidekick, I guess.
MARK WRIGHT 02:39
And Elan.
ELAN OLSEN 02:40
I am once again, Elan Olsen, and I am the creative sidekick.
MARK WRIGHT 02:45
Okay, so this is the team responsible for producing the BEATS WORKING podcast, the FAT SCIENCE podcast, which launched in November. So the topic today is creating your side hustle. And here’s the kicker. It’s not always about money. So here we go. So we’re going to talk, well, I guess it can make you money. It can bring you satisfaction. There are a lot of different reasons to have side hustles, but this is just going to be thrown out into the universe so that we can give people some inspiration when it comes to, to side hustles. I’d love to start out with you, Jeff, just in terms of, um, what, what side hustles have you cultivated over the years? And, and what, what kind of satisfaction did you get?
JEFF KAAS 03:28
Yeah. So when, when you invited me to this, I thought side hustle, I just have a hustle. Um, but, um, I think a lot of people would consider the consulting work that I do to be the side hustle. So years ago, we were trying to figure out how do we make a manufacturing business survive, um, in, in the area. And, uh, so going to Toyota and seeing, uh, how they make things was super inspiring. And so we just started sharing that, uh, knowledge because we copied them. Uh, they, they, they share with us. So, uh, the side hustle really became like, this is what we really do is help people, uh, use those principles. Not just in business, but maybe in life. And so that was the first frame of reference, but, um, my main hustle is being a dad. So all the things you do with a dad, soccer coaching and whatever that comes with that. Um, but yeah, so the side hustle for me is just really now becoming kind of my main hustle is, um, at this stage of life, um, the knowledge I have in my head is much more useful if it’s outside the four walls of my business. And so, uh, yeah, so sowing seeds, um, it, uh, you don’t get to see harvest so much, but it’s, uh, it’s good work to plant a bunch of seeds and hope like, hope like heck it works out. So yeah, that’s mine.
MARK WRIGHT 04:40
So for people who haven’t listened to your episode of the BEATS WORKING Podcast, I highly recommend it. Jeff Kaas, um, owns a manufacturing company in Mukilteo, just north of Seattle. You make industrial furniture, plain seats, uh, couches for stores like Nordstrom. Um, so, so early in the early days of your company, Jeff, I take it that that knowledge that you’re now coaching with was really necessary to just figure out the business, right? And to make it the best it could be.
JEFF KAAS 05:07
Absolutely. Just survival. It was straight up survival, but, uh, I was lucky enough to hear one of our teachers say, these are principles. They’re like gravity. And I was just dumb enough to test it on everything. And people heard we were doing that and just basically showed up for tours all the time. So, uh, yeah, it was a, it was a matter of survival and, uh, um, yeah, I was 30 years old. I didn’t have an opinion about much of anything other than I really liked my bride. And, uh, so running a business, uh, was really, um, scary to me. So, uh, yeah, it was mostly luck, but sharing with others was, yeah, fits my worldview of just loving your neighbors and sharing what you know, so. It fits, uh, the missional person, uh, I guess my missional thought. I think my purpose in life is to help others. So, uh, it’s just kind of the way we show love because it would have been a lot easier just to go skiing or boating than to do the tours.
MARK WRIGHT 06:04
Well, I made the mistake of, of Googling, uh, popular side hustles, uh, just before we came on here. And there are a bazillion different ways that people are making money. Jeff, do you think when P if people are interested in, in developing a side hustle, um, is it important to identify the why at the beginning or does that matter in your opinion? Because some people do it strictly to put food on the table and get extra income every month. Other people do it for more sort of, um, you know, intellectual and, and sort of heart reasons. Do you think it’s important to identify that beforehand?
JEFF KAAS 06:39
Um, it’s great to get to think this. I think the most important thing is we, we, we don’t have that much time on the planet. And so we can either spend time watching TV or, or Netflix or social media, or we can be learning stuff and serving other people. And it feels like it’s work, like coaching soccer, as I did through, you know, the league your wife was involved in. Um, it might look like work, but I was out on a soccer field playing with, you know, boys and goofing off and. being an eighth grader or a sixth grader or a fourth grader. So, um, it’s a spare time we have, you know, we have the, we have the work we have to do to pay the bills and then there’s another maybe 30 or 40 hours a week available to us. And, uh, and side hustles don’t have to be alone. So we can do that with our kids or with our friends, whatever. So, um, it’s just, uh, I don’t, I don’t have room in my life for watching stuff. It’s, I just realized through life just, well, If I want to do these other things, I just have to cut those out. So I think why matters and our motivation really matters on a side hustle. And, um, um, when life throws us curve balls, uh, that side hustle might present itself, uh, to us in a way that we didn’t expect. Um, but if we’re always looking for how do we serve humanity? How do we love our neighbors? Something for sure shows up.
MARK WRIGHT 07:55
Yeah. And I’m guessing the consulting side hustle now is that, is that paying the bills to an extent, or is it, is it, is it lucrative financially, Jeff?
JEFF KAAS 08:04
I, I’m no longer overhead, which is kind of cool. So, so I mean, realistically, I don’t take from the company in order to, to be part of the company anymore, which is a huge blessing when I think about, um, providing, um, a workplace that can provide bright futures is I’m, I’m just a guy who has to earn a living, just like I did when I had to build a piece of furniture. So I wouldn’t say lucrative, rich, but, uh, amazing, uh, blessings, uh, had a guy this week, I was, uh, back in Boston today. Guy said, you know, after that conversation, I chose to step down as the COO. Of this really cool company because this company needs somebody different than me. And, and I go, that’s great. And so that was our conversation that caused that. I’m like, oh, shoot. Uh, I love him enough to tell him the truth. And he asked me a question and now he’s stepping down. So, uh, but I guess, uh, the point of all that is, is if we just go out and, and, uh, find that thing and go after it, um, I’ve found abundant, um, uh, yeah, abundant re, uh, return. It’s not very often financial.
MARK WRIGHT 09:10
Libby. I’d love to talk about your side hustle. Thank you, Jeff. Libby. Um, I think you’ve talked about on one of our podcasts that you lost your dad to cancer. And one of the side hustles that you do now every year is to organize a fundraiser and you, you and Alysse are both amazing when it comes to putting on live events, um, tell me about that side hustle and how did, how did that come about?
LIBBY SUNDGREN 09:32
Yeah, it’s called Celebrity Steak-Out, so it’s a steak dinner in August, um, you know, typically, I mean, it’s always the third Tuesday in August, um, and, uh, you know, it was at Morton’s for a long time, and now we’ve been partnered with John Howey for years. Um, and the, the gentleman who started it, Brad Brotherton, he owns a few, um, auto dealerships here in the Seattle area. And he has always been very big on giving back to the community. And when his dad was diagnosed with multiple myeloma, he, you know, they didn’t know what to do. So he asked us at the time I was working for a city magazine and he was an advertising partner and he asked if we could just help him do this event that benefits Fred Hutch because his dad was treated there. Um, and that was in 2010. Um, his father, um, you know, did pass away the next year, but, um, the event has happened every year since. And when I left the magazine, after I had my first son, um, you know, I still worked with Brad on the event and I still do it every year and, um, you know, it is, it, it is, the bulk of it is him. I mean, he is, he has so many great relationships. He knows so many people in the community and he really, um, you know, he does a lot of the legwork and I do a lot of the logistical and kind of back end parts of it. But, um, you know, even when it’s really stressful. Um, it’s just still feels really good, and it is just so fun. Um, we, to date, I believe we’ve raised over 1.6 million that benefits Fred Hutch. Um, and there’s really just two of us now that work on it. We do, there is a really great team that helps with the auction back end. Um, but it’s really just, uh, me helping Brad, uh, make it happen. And, I don’t know that it’s ever going to end, but it, um, never.
MARK WRIGHT 11:56
She said with a smile on her face.
LIBBY SUNDGREN 11:58
Yeah. A big smile. I know. Cause every year I think maybe this would be better. It could be better served by somebody else. You know, maybe there’s somebody else who has new ideas and new things to bring to, to the event, to, to make it bigger and better. Um, but when Brad asks me every year, I can’t say no because I am just so emotionally tied to the event and the cause and, um, and I think that’s another thing about work in general, is that even if you really love it, the stressful parts still feel okay. And, um, you know, I’m in the trenches with Brad and with these other folks who are helping and um, you know, I think the, the cause that we’re working towards feels totally worth it, so.
MARK WRIGHT 12:53
Libby, it’s just so heartwarming to hear that when my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer five years ago and we walked into the Hutch. Our heads were just spinning and we, our stomachs were sick. We had no idea what was going to happen. And, uh, it was such a blessing to have, you know, you get a team assigned to you right when you walk in the door there and it’s the, probably the best cancer center in the country. And, and it’s here and it, it benefits all of us. So hard not to get emotional. Um, you know, talking about this. Um but just know that, uh, the work that you’re doing has benefited all of us, you know, a lot of us keep that up.
LIBBY SUNDGREN 13:37
It is. And, you know, I think one of the things we talk about when we talk about Fred Hutch is that, you know, they are saving lives and the research that they’re doing is going to save millions of lives in the future. But even for the people who are not going to, you know, survive their diagnosis. Fred Hutch can give them time and that’s time to be with their families or their friends, just doing the things that make them the happiest and give them a full life. And, um, you know, that’s just so invaluable.
MARK WRIGHT 14:17
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. And you, you’re not drawing a paycheck. I take it for, for, for all that.
LIBBY SUNDGREN 14:22
I do get a nominal fee. It used to be built into my job, but since I left, I do take a very, very small fee.
MARK WRIGHT 14:32
I’m sure you’re, you’re worth every, every dollar.
LIBBY SUNDGREN 14:35
He gets the steepest discounts in the business. So,
MARK WRIGHT 14:38
the friends and family discount, I love it. I’d love to bring in, uh, Tamar right now because the, you know, Tamar started a side hustle a while back and because she did, she’s now the producer of, of several podcasts that we all work on together. Tamar, I’d love to, you know, you and I have shared stories, uh, of your past work and, um, uh, it was challenging being in the corporate world for you. Love to, to know how that transition happened for you when you develop a side hustle that turned into your main hustle.
TAMAR MEDFORD 15:12
Absolutely. Yeah. I’d been in corporate for, you know, 20 plus years and I wasn’t satisfied. You know, I’d go to bed Sundays, anxious and, you know emails blasting and, and I just didn’t want to do it anymore. And at that point I was probably about seven years sober and starting to build a life again. And I just thought, you know, there’s no way that my higher power allowed me to get through 22 years of addiction to do nothing with it. I’m not meant to be in the corporate world forever. And so I started thinking, you know, what, what is something I could do because that’s all I knew is, you know, corporate running a shop, uh, running a sales team, being outside sales kind of thing. And so I didn’t think I had the skills, but the reality is, is many people in recovery, they’re go getters. You know, I’ve heard a lot of people say they love to hire people in recovery because they have some, like, we have something to prove. And so I decided in 2019, I had just started listening to podcasts. I went to an event. And one of the women there was like, you know, what’s your story and why aren’t you drinking? And so I said, oh, I’ve been sober for seven years now. And she’s like, you should share your story. She’s like, you have a voice. You have a story. You need to share that with the world and help other people because just because you think your story isn’t relevant, right? Doesn’t mean that more people can relate because I didn’t go through treatment. I never went to jail. So I really thought that, you know, in the, in the big, grand scheme of things, my story wasn’t that relevant, but it turns out a lot of people can probably relate to my version of, you know, alcoholism than others. And so I started a podcast in 2019. I learned how to do it by myself. I taught myself how to build a website. And then the pandemic hit. I couldn’t travel anymore, and that’s what my podcast was about originally, and I was encouraged to get more into the recovery space, so I took a, uh, neuroscience program to be a practitioner, started coaching, and then I, a friend of mine, actually, she was a fellow coach, and she said, why are you still in the corporate world? And I said, well, you know, I, I’m going to take a three month leave of absence. I’ll kind of test the business out, see if I like it. And then if it works out well, I’ll, I’ll make the jump. And she goes, Tamar, when you quit drinking, did you keep a bottle of vodka in the cupboard just in case you wanted to go back? I was like, that was like a friendly slap in the face. And I’m like, no, I did not. And the next day, which happened to me by birthday, I gave my notice. And I quit my job and so for two years, I basically taught myself how to grow a business. I self published two books. I changed my podcast a few times. Uh, that’s also how I met Alysse, um, from the Sober Curator. So I built all these friendships and that have opened all these doors for me to eventually coming and working. You know, with you guys that WORKP2P. And I never thought in a million years that I would be producing podcasts and building websites and doing the creative stuff that my dad actually raised me to do. And I remember when I quit my job, my dad who had always worried about me and said I’d done stupid things was like, I’m not really surprised, and I’m so proud of you. And that’s one of the first times I heard that from him. And since then, my mission with my side hustle, and I still, I still write, I still do things on the side and have a podcast has been, I want to help people create a life so good for themselves that they never want to go back to their old way of living. And that is my mission every single day, by sharing my story, creating podcasts and helping other people. Create their podcasts and stuff.
MARK WRIGHT 18:58
That is an amazing story Tamar. And, and for the record, you and I spend more time together now with our spouses. As the producer of, of our, our podcasts. That is such a great story. So if people want to check out your podcast, the one that you and Lane have, what is it called again?
TAMAR MEDFORD 19:18
It’s called Laughing Without Liquor.
MARK WRIGHT 19:20
Did you ever think Tamar when you first sort of started this side hustle and just tinkering with stuff. Did you ever think that it would lead to the point that you and I often will look at each other and say I can’t believe we’re getting paid for this.
TAMAR MEDFORD 19:34
No, not at all. But I did know and I had faith that if I just followed my you know, my purpose that eventually something would come of it. And I really had to lean on my faith because that, you know, there was some times in the two years before I started with WORKP2P that I thought, oh my gosh, like I’m going to have to get a job again. Like I can’t sustain this. But I knew it was all for a reason and I didn’t give up because I knew it would be worth it and it has been worth it, so.
MARK WRIGHT 20:06
That is so inspiring. The commitment that you have to make life so much better that people don’t want to go back. I love that. That is so cool. Well, you mentioned Alysse. Alysse, do you want to talk about the Sober Curator as your side hustle? You’ve got I think several, but what, what would you like to, to talk about?
ALYSSE BRYSON 20:22
Oh, sure. I can. Thanks, Mark. Um, I always feel funny calling it a side hustle though, cause I always feel like side hustle implies you’re making money and I’m not making money on it, although you guys, I get posted. I get paid to post on Instagram like $25 a month. So,
MARK WRIGHT 20:43
No way.
ALYSSE BRYSON 20:44
Yeah, so that makes me, I think, an official influencer. Um, I’m just hoping not to make so much that I have to claim it on my taxes. Um, no. Uh the Sober Curator is a passion project. So like Tamar, I identify as a person in long term recovery and, um, I’ve had kind of a front row seat at seeing the recovery community come online and recover out loud. When I got sober back in 2006, um, there were not a lot of options. Social media was just getting started. And quite honestly, the book section at Barnes and Noble for self help was relatively small. And so even as a woman in her early thirties, um, a Caucasian woman in her early thirties, I would go to that aisle and I could not find myself and that was really frustrating. So imagine how people with any kind of diversity background must have felt. So I’ve had this front row seat over the last 17 plus years at seeing all this content come online around the community, the recovery community, and people recovering out loud. Whether it’s Facebook groups, Instagram groups, TikTok, uh, Pinterest, uh, the Quitlet genre has completely exploded. Everybody and their brother has a memoir now. Um, we’re trying to make addiction fiction a thing at the Sober Curator. Um, but with my media background, working for a newspaper and magazine and television, I had come up with this idea before the pandemic of, of a sober magazine or a sober resource that, that really catered to people that have already chosen recovery as a lifestyle. There’s lots of tools out there now for the sober curious or people that need to get sober, whether it’s treatment or any other way. Um, but there’s not a lot of stuff that really targets people that, you know, so you’re sober now, what, that you’re, you’ve made the life decision. You’re five years in your 10 years in what keeps you in, right? Cause people have this assumption that the longer you do it, the easier it gets. And I, I’m here to tell you, that’s not been my experience, right? Um, because I have this forgetter in me that thinks, hmm, I would be different now. I’m so much more mature, right? Which I mean, you’re laughing. I know I’m not more mature. Um, but I, you know, those, those thoughts happen. And so I had come up with this idea of, of doing some kind of a resource, but I mean, time, right? Like I I’m a busy gal on the go and definitely before the pandemic, like it was hard to keep up with me on social media. You know, I’m just ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. I’m all over the city doing all the things because I love lifestyle. That is my jam. I worked at a lifestyle magazine. I worked on lifestyle TV shows like I love life. Um, I just happened to like doing it sober. And one of the things I really wanted to show the world and encourage people is that, that you can have fun in longterm recovery. Um, you know, I never wake up hungover on a Saturday and it is awesome, right? I pay my bills every month and it is thrilling even all these years later to pay my, I don’t even put things on automated payments cause I just like paying my bills. I know that sounds weird, but I do. And when I leave Target and I haven’t stolen something high five to me, right? So, um, I wanted, I wanted to show the world that life is great in recovery, even the little things, right? And, and there’s so much coming online. And as a busy gal, I was like, there’s so many books now and there’s so many podcasts and there’s so many TV shows and movies that have it as part of the storyline. How do I know what the good stuff is? Because I don’t, I don’t have time to do all the searching necessarily. Um, and, but I also don’t like, I didn’t, I don’t like like, um, what is it when you, people that leave opinions on things, what’s that website? Yelp. Like, a sober Yelp. But here’s the thing I don’t like about Yelp. Why do I care about opinions of people I don’t know, right? Because if I don’t like them or their moral compass, then I’m definitely not going to care what they think about anything. So then it was like, I don’t know. And then the pandemic hit. And, you know, we were given the gift of time and that completely stopped me in my tracks. You know, my son and I were very, being very cautious, um, because we’re both high risk people. And, um, so, you know, for the first couple of months of the pandemic, like most people, I was baking bread and working on craft projects. But then when I realized this isn’t going to be over in three weeks, right? Or even three months. I was like, what can I do now that I can look back at however long this period of time is and feel proud about how I spent the time? And kind of going back to what Jeff was saying at the beginning, I do love to consume TV shows and books and podcasts and all of that and scroll. I love, I love to go for a long scroll. Some people like to go for a long stroll on the beach. I like to go for a long scroll on my phone, but how do I look back and feel really good about the time? And so that, so in July of 2020, I decided to take a week off work. I grabbed my laptop and my dogs, I head down to my parents house. And I was like, I’m just going to figure this out. I’m going to, I had learned, I had taught myself how to build a website. Um, because I wanted to showcase all the events that Libby and I had done over the years and I wanted kind of an online portfolio. So I knew just enough to be dangerous, but I also knew that if this was going to be some ultimate resource, as great as my taste is, and let’s be clear, I have amazing taste, it can’t just be through my lens, right? It needs to be through the lens of a lot of different people with a lot of different lengths of recovery, a lot of different pathways to recovery. Um, and so I knew that I was going to need a village, but I also am funding this whole thing myself, which means it’s, you know, not a lot of money going in. And so I had to be scrappy. And as a single mom, a young single mom, scrappy is my middle name. It should be, actually. I might think about getting that changed. At least Scrappy Bryson has a knife string. And, uh, so, you know, I did what I could the best with my resources. I taught myself a few things. And then I just, I am very much an attraction, not promotion person. So I’m like, I believe in this project. People are going to find it, and if they believe in it, they’re going to want to join me. And so in 2020, in it, we launched in September of 2020, no, August of 2020. Um, there were 4 of us, uh, including my sister. And now in 2023, uh, there are over 30 of us, uh, around the country. Uh, one in Canada. Thank you Tamar and one in Mexico. And, um, the site has really grown and you guys, something really cool happened a couple of weeks ago. I had just touched down in New York, um, to actually meet a bunch of people that I have met in the online sober community online. Um, one of them, uh, that I’ve become very good friends with was starring in an Off-Broadway production. And I was recruiting every sober person I had met on the East Coast. Come meet me in New York. Let’s support this woman in her show, right? Um, and. Uh, I had just landed. I, I, it was too early to check in to my hotel room. I was trying not to fall asleep in public and, um, I was walking down the street trying to get some fresh air and I have this jacket where I have the sober curator kind of embroidered, like a, a nod to Laverne and Shirley. And, um, uh, and I was walking by someone, and they stopped me, and they said, like, the website, and they pointed at the sober curator on my jacket. And I was like, I was completely like, am I hallucinating? Now, I hadn’t had sleep in 48 hours, so maybe, maybe I’m making this up. I don’t think I am, though. Um, because normally when I wear that jacket, if somebody says something, it’s usually like, what is that? Right? Um, but I’ve never had somebody let alone in New York City be like, I know, I know that site. I love it. And then they were gone just as quickly as they appeared. And I was like, you know, but I have been looking for a sign of what is this thing supposed to be? It’s three years old. I either need to double down or I need to shut it down. But I’m not ready to shut it down yet. You know, I still think it can be something. And so what I love, it’s, it’s created this space for people that want to share their stories, that want to recover out loud, whether they want to write or they want to produce podcasts or they like YouTube videos, um, or they like reviewing things. I love shining a light on sober business owners. Um, and, and I’ll tell you how I get paid in this thing. I have made a little money here and there going and speaking in front of large companies like Primera has brought me in a couple different times to talk about rethinking drinking in the workplace and that’s been great. But where I get paid is when I get the phone call that says, I want to be a sober curator. And I’m like, great, let’s, let’s, let’s talk about what, what that could look like. And she’s like, well, it’s important to me because you’re a part of my story. And I’m like, how is that possible? This is our first time meeting. She’s like, well, you didn’t know it. but I had been listening to this podcast that’s not yours for months while I was still drinking. And, and then you were a special guest on their podcast and you talked about how much fun you’re having in recovery. And I thought, well, if she can have fun, so can I, and I have a year now, and I want to give back. And that’s how I get paid.
MARK WRIGHT 30:02
Oh my gosh. Alysse, that’s amazing. What an amazing story. And, um, I just encourage anybody listening, if you haven’t checked out the Sober Curator, I’ve spent some time there and it’s just, I’m just floored at the quality of the content, Alysse, and the diversity of voices. And, uh, and it is such a great site. That’s such a great story, my friend. I love that.
ALYSSE BRYSON 30:26
Thank you.
MARK WRIGHT 30:27
Well, Jeff has been taking notes. We’re going to get to Jeff in just a moment. Just a minute. But I want to talk to Elan about her side hustle. Um, Elan is probably one of the younger, cooler people that we know at WORKP2P. Um, I’m saying that as the only gray haired guy here, but Elan has so many cool interests. Um, so what do you want to talk about Elan in terms of your side hustles?
ELAN OLSEN 30:47
Thanks. Well, the, level of altruism is going to drop significantly, um, when I talk about my side hustles. Um, they’ve all been entirely self serving, so. Um, but my relationship with the side hustle has really shifted since I started working. And I was thinking about it leading up to this podcast, um, since I began working, I’ve never had one job at a time. I’ve always had two or more. Um, and when that started it was, you know, out of a certain necessity. I paid for my associate’s degree myself. That was the deal with my grandpa. If I paid for my AA, he would pay for my bachelor’s. Thank you, Henry Graytricks. There’s your plug. Um, so I needed to have I have three jobs in order to pay for my classes. Um, and through college that was kind of similar, um, always just needed to have the income in order to eat, pay rent, pay for classes, those kinds of things. Um, now my relationship with the side hustle has really shifted into a place of play and about exploring creativity and about what I like. Um, so my most current side hustle is Buffaloe Pro, and that’s Buffalo spelled with an E on the end. Um, my father and I run this business. It’s a lighting business, predominantly for live music events. Um in the Seattle area, but we also do weddings and corporate events and golf courses and your baby’s birthday and all those things halloween is also a fun one. Um but that’s been such a great experience. I do get paid for it. Not a ton of money It doesn’t take any edges off for me financially, but I get to play around with lights. I get to be super creative. I get exposed to incredible Um, musical artists in the Seattle area. Um, for free, I get to watch free acts, which is cool. I’ve met some incredible, um, venue owners and legacy acts in the Seattle area. And I get to work with my dad who don’t tell him, but he’s pretty cool and fun to hang out with. So, um, you know, while it’s not a place of necessity, it is serving my life in a way that I get to learn a lot about myself, I get to learn a lot about my dad, I get to learn a lot about music and what I like, I get to participate, and that has been beneficial for the bands that I’m in. I get to meet venue owners and things like that, and I look really cool when I perform because we’ve got lights and a smoke machine and all that stuff. Um, I mean, other side hustles that exist in my life, you know, I, I hate cooking. I really just don’t like it. So in order to hack my way into liking it, I created a website where I got to play around and be creative with formatting recipes, things like that. So other side hustles in my life have I’ve been to serve a more play aspect now. Um, and I do think kind of the zeitgeist of my generation is the side hustle life, I think, millennials and a lot of people in my age bracket, um, also have never had just one job at a time. So, interesting to think about. But, yes, I’m not saving the world like Libby or, you know, getting paid by people being completely impacted and moved like Alysse and Tamar. So, um. It has been a self reflective journey, for sure.
MARK WRIGHT 34:30
But I think what, what it speaks to, Elan, is that you are probably one of the more complete human beings that, that I’ve ever met. You are not a one dimensional, one lane, like, I’m climbing my way up the corporate ladder. You, you’re a beekeeper, you’re a singer in a band, you, you, you do this lighting business with your with your dad, Alysse.
ALYSSE BRYSON 34:50
I also want to add Elan is being humble. She also does quite a bit of volunteer work, um, with the youth and, um, and I, and she’s very dedicated to that. And I know that that pays her in different ways. So, she’s got a lot of layers that one.
MARK WRIGHT 35:07
That’s really cool. I love it. I love it. You know, we were just, uh, recording an episode of Contributors Corner, um, yesterday, and it was really interesting. And our boss, Dan Rogers said something because the, the episode of Contributors Corner was how to turn your vision into your mission. And we had some amazing contributors, um, talk about that process, but the thing that really stuck out to me is Dan said, you have to achieve excellence first in whatever it is. Because your passion might be, oh, I’m a, I want to be a hairstylist, but if you’re crappy at cutting hair and you leave people with shorter hair on one side than the other, it doesn’t matter what your passion, that passion will not, uh, get to the point of serving the world because people are going to run when they see your scissors. And it just, it made me think that in all of these stories. Each of you achieved excellence in an area, and, and because you did, it allowed you to take that excellence and express it in a new way, in that side hustle that benefits other people and it also is fulfilling to yourself. Um, Jeff, what are, what are some thoughts that, that you’ve, uh, that you’ve gathered as you’ve been listening to some of these side hustle stories?
JEFF KAAS 36:23
Well, I’m over here crying, so that’s really nice. Thanks for recording that. Hope you cut it. Um, well, the learning part, right? So in, in all the stories, I can just hear, oh, I, I was inspired to learn and, uh, in some way through pain, uh, you know, um, getting to a moment where, uh, considering sobriety, that’s, that’s a moment in life that. Um, and I, I, I’m around a few people who are friends of Bill and I agree, they’re like amazing people. Um, I’m a Christian, I go to church and the first time I went to a AA meeting with a friend, I’m like, called the pastor guy. I’m like, hey, the church is down the street. They’re confessing. They’re repenting. They’re begging each other just to love each other. So, um, so inspired by these stories, but the, the learning part just, uh, to me really stands out as, um, if, if our motivation was just to make money in our side hustle. Um, I don’t, I don’t think we’ll find our knitting. I don’t think we’ll find our, our mission, but if we go after something that we have passion around and, uh, I don’t disagree with Dan, you know, develop some form of excellence and an excellence might be just, I really suck at this, but I plan to get better at it. Um, I think it becomes super interesting. Um, yeah, so the learning is what stood out in my note taking.
MARK WRIGHT 37:39
Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool. One thing that I’ve been able to develop as a side hustle when I was a journalist in television for three and a half decades, um, I would emcee fundraising events for a lot of nonprofits. So you name a nonprofit in the Seattle area, I probably, I probably emceed a fundraising lunch or a dinner for them. Um, and I never charged for that for three and a half decades because there, there could be a, you know, a perceived conflict of interest if I ever had to cover. On the news, uh that non profit so I just never wanted to get into that, into that area of possible conflict. Now that i’m out of television i’ve started charging to do that and it’s turned into a nice side income as i’m getting closer, you know to retirement and it just made me think that you know all those years of just saying yes, because it was the right thing to do, are paying dividends now? In ways that I didn’t expect and I was a little reluctant to start saying, well, here’s my fee. Um, because it’s, it’s not cheap. It’s, it’s, it’s because I only have so much time in a week and I have a wife and I care about her. Um, but I’ve been really surprised at how many of these nonprofit leaders say, oh, that’s fine. You’re totally worth it. You’re worth every penny. And they don’t even bat an eye. Yeah. And it’s just, it really is. It really surprised me because I was reluctant. I was reluctant to, uh, to ask, ask for that money. One thing I’d like to explore, Jeff, is that with the BEATS WORKING podcast, we’re getting close to about 50 episodes now, and I’ve interviewed so many amazing entrepreneurs like yourself. And it really seems to me that all entrepreneurs who become really successful have all really tried to figure out who they are first, and, until they figure out that, there’s really no step two after that, because that sets the table, I think, for understanding the rest of the world and how you’re going to play into that. If you would address that, Jeff, knowing, I think, I think it was, was it Aristotle that said, knowing yourself is the first step toward wisdom? One of the great philosophers said that. But, but what’s your take on that, Jeff?
JEFF KAAS 39:48
I wonder it’s the people that you, that you are getting to talk to who survived not knowing themselves and burning out. So like, so yeah, there’s a lot of people. So I’m 56 years old and I would describe, and I’m not an entrepreneur. Uh, my dad was the one who started the company. And so I, I really don’t fit that category so much, but, uh, um, I admire them, um, but survival is kind of a thing. Like, so it’s, it’s super easy, especially, uh, when you have a little bit of success in business, um, to really lose our way. Um, so for me, I think that, you know, I just, uh, it has been the thing that has, uh, uh, honed, honed my skills and caused me to have to learn about myself. Um, and I, I for sure would not be alive if I wasn’t a Christian, if I didn’t have, you know, people around me who are willing to put up with a lot of failure along the way. Um, so I just wonder if it’s the audience you get to talk to who, you know, um, it’s really great to talk to a successful business person at age 30, um, when one survives and is still doing it and still growing and learning, uh, a little later in life. It’s a different story, not a better story, just a different story. So I just wonder if it’s the selection that you’re, you’re getting to know. Um, cause I’m still like literally today, I’m still trying to figure out who am I becoming and I’m learning more about myself now than I ever have before, because I’m, I’m even more, uh, diligent about asking that question to make sure that the next 10 years or 20 years of life, if I have it, um, are really spent investing in, in the ways I’m supposed to and when I say supposed to just that’s kind of faith thing, but I would say I’m more uh extreme in my search for myself today than ever before which is yeah kind of weird to do that.
MARK WRIGHT 41:36
That is that’s that’s really insightful Jeff. Um Elan when you what I think is so cool about your story Elan is that you are you’re trying a ton of things and I think one of the things that I see all these really successful entrepreneurs do is that they realize in terms of how they spend their time, they have to narrow their focus as they get older, and they have to start getting that stuff off their plate that maybe they’re not so good at, or maybe they don’t enjoy. Um, but I, I love the idea of, of sampling and experiencing. I’d love to ask the rest of the group, you know, as, as on your journeys, you know, how does experimentation and finding out what, what lights those fires, how important is that in your lives?
TAMAR MEDFORD 42:18
I would say very, it’s, I think a lot of people don’t start a side hustle, say, or don’t take a chance and do something because we’re afraid to fail. I mean, I, I’ve failed so much in my life, but today I don’t look at that as failure. I look at that as opportunity because I sure know what, mostly, I sure know what not to do because of my life experience. And I think you know, when we learn to get out of our comfort zone and do something that really scares the crap out of us and we experience the joy of, you know, maybe learning a lesson from it, or even accomplishing what we set out to do. I think that starts to give us the confidence and the courage to do more and more of that. And I think we as humans kind of almost need that the validation or the reassurance that, hey, we can try new things and they might not always work out. But when they do, that gives us a confidence to continue to build on that and do more and more and more, right? And then if it doesn’t work out, you kind of get to a point where you’re like, that’s okay. I’m going to try something else.
MARK WRIGHT 43:29
You know, what I think is really interesting. Everyone on this call, except for Jeff works at work, WORKP2P. And if you had asked me a year ago that I would be working for a guy who wants to redeem work and that’s his mission and, and started to fill in the blanks of, of what that actually would be like, I still wake up every day and can’t believe that, that we’re all doing this together and this is such a huge, uh, leap of faith, but I think all of us in our own place in life, we’re comfortable with the idea, um, of trusting friends, trusting the universe, God, call it what, what is best for you. But I feel like we’re all on this crazy, wild, amazing journey, not by accident, but because we’re open to the idea that life is uncertain and let’s take every amazing opportunity as it comes. Any thoughts?
ALYSSE BRYSON 44:24
Well, yes, I’ll, I’ll jump in. I, a couple of different thoughts that I have. Number one, um, getting older is awesome. It gets a bad wrap, but I’m just going to speak from my own personal experience. I am at 48. I am the most comfortable in my skin that I have ever been, even though it’s a little bit wrinkly. It’s a little bit squishy, right? Like I would give anything to be this comfortable in my skin back when I was 20, but that’s not how it works, right? It’s just not, it’s, it’s, you learn from life experience. And in my experience, as much as I love to win, and if you know me, you know, I love to win. I’m a little competitive, right? And I love all great things happening where I learn is from my mistakes, where I learn is from my failures. Um, that’s where the growth really happens. And then the big life things, you know, sobriety was a big one, right? And I didn’t get sober because everything was going great, right? I didn’t. Um, but I’ve also had other life things. I had emergency heart surgery at the age of 40. My son was diagnosed with Crohn’s disease. Um, I, I’ve had cancer. And, and, and it’s, even, and I deal with depression. And I, I’ve, my whole, for as long as I can remember, I’ve dealt with suicidal thoughts. So it’s weird to be, have this brain that like, wants to kill itself, but also desperately wants to live. But the older I get, the more I realize that I don’t have as much time as I think I have, and, and I want to make it count. I want to feel good at the end, whenever that is, that I did everything I could to make a difference and make other people’s lives better in whatever that looks like. Um, and we work in a space now where we really get to figure out what that looks like. And it’s sometimes weird. It’s sometimes super uncomfortable, right? When, you know, Dan is always focused on awesome for fun and for free, no strings attached. And I’m like, what are you doing? We need to make money. Don’t you want to make more money? He’s like, you’re focused on the wrong things, Alysse. And I’m like, am I, you know, but I’m also, I’ve been a salesperson for 25 years that loves reaching goals and, and knowing exactly what the box is that I I’m supposed to check. And so now it’s this abstract, I don’t even know what it is. And so I’m like, how do I know, how do I know if we’re doing a good job, if there’s not something to measure it against? And it’s like, well, how do you feel? You know, how are you showing up? And it’s like, oh, I feel, I feel pretty goodmost of the time, you know, I feel pretty good most of the time. And when I don’t, I also have a circle of people that I can talk to, whether it’s work or professional. And for me, those lines blurred a long time ago. Like, I, I, I become, like, work, I don’t turn off or on, I don’t, I don’t understand Monday through Friday 9 to 5, it’s not a language that I speak, I haven’t spoken it in a very long time, it doesn’t matter to me, you know, like, if I’m supposed to be available and of service, whether it’s professionally or personally, I just, I just am, unless I’m asleep. Unless I’m asleep. And I, I like sleeping a lot for the record. I like sleeping a lot.
MARK WRIGHT 47:37
Elan.
ELAN OLSEN 47:38
Alysse, I love everything that you just said. And I feel like if I could like wrap it all up in a bow, what I think I heard you say is that curiosity takes a lot of courage. And I think that’s what I’ve learned through the side hustle experience is, you know, being deeply curious is scary, and taking steps to satisfy your curiosity is scary, and I know we always cry when Jeff is here, so I won’t do that, but um, I, yeah, I, I just think that’s such a powerful lesson to learn, and I think everyone on this call is deeply curious, and I think that leads to redeeming work.
LIBBY SUNDGREN 48:24
And Alysse, you know, the, you really are somebody who is of service to, to everyone around you and not to be too morbid, but you know, when my dad died, the church was completely packed. I mean, just full of people and, you know, both he and my mom worked in healthcare. I’m from a small town, so they knew a lot of people. They just knew a lot of people. They were involved in our church and they just, but it really resonated with me, how many lives he had touched in some way, like how many people he had served. And you know, funerals will probably, funeral parties that is, will look different, you know, in 40 years. Um, but I, you know, part of, for me, you know, part of a side hustle is like who, how many lives am I going to be able to touch? And how many people, even if they’re not physically there, how many people are going to think like, oh, they did this great thing for me one time and you know, they were the best. Um, and, you know, leaving that kind of impact is, even if it’s 10 people, you know, it doesn’t need to be a church full of hundreds of people, but, um, having a real, you know, valuable impact on people is, is important as a side hustle.
ALYSSE BRYSON 50:03
Well, and I’ll just add, um, Libby is, already knows she’s in charge of my Celebration of Life party, and you guys, it’s gonna be off the chain. It is gonna be off the chain, and I don’t, I hope it’s standing room only, but it is gonna be off the chain. There’s gonna be a candy bar, there’s gonna be a photo booth, and when you get your picture, I’m surprised, gonna be in it. No, I don’t know. But, um, you know, it’s interesting you say that, Libby, because I would be not honest if I didn’t think about that day and who shows up at that day, like how, and I don’t ever need to know all the lives that I touch. I don’t, it’s probably, I don’t, it’s probably best that I don’t cause my ego will just get bigger, right? But like, I just want to know that I did. I just want to know that I did in a meaningful way.
MARK WRIGHT 50:48
That’s amazing. Well, um, I think we should probably start to wrap things up and I’d like to just sort of end our time together with just asking you all for just a nugget of wisdom, just a bit of advice for that person listening, who maybe hasn’t really explored a side hustle at this point, or maybe has only looked at side hustles in terms of the money they can bring, or maybe they haven’t, but I would love to just ask for a little bit of parting wisdom. Uh, Tamar, do you have, what, what advice would you give that person out there when it comes to, to side hustles?
TAMAR MEDFORD 51:26
So I think a lot of us seek out our purpose in life after something traumatic or awful has happened that has been life changing, but it doesn’t have to be that way. I mean, we can seek out our purpose at any moment and I would encourage people listening that if you know, start that seeking process, find out what it is you really love, what you’re good at, and go for it, you know, and let that kind of be your, your North Star, because when you have a purpose in life, that gives you, and this is science, intrinsic, internal motivation to keep going, right? Because as we all know, everybody’s really good at starting things. We’re not always good at finishing something. But when you have purpose in everything you do, every decision you make is like, does this align with my purpose? Chances are you’re going to finish it. And chances are you’re going to do well. So I would start there. Seek out your purpose.
MARK WRIGHT 52:26
Libby.
LIBBY SUNDGREN 52:27
You know, I, I am a little bit of a scaredy cat, so I don’t know that I would have been brave enough to find my side hustle if it hadn’t come to me in my work. Um, but you know, the amount of real joy it has brought me in a couple of gray hairs, probably, but, um, not as many as you, but I’m getting there, you know, the amount of real, just joy it has brought me, I am so, so grateful to it.
MARK WRIGHT 53:05
Alysse, how about you?
ALYSSE BRYSON 53:07
Well, I’ve got two quotes that are kind of my mantras. Well, three, well, a lot, but I’m just going to go with three. So the first one is you make a hundred, you met, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don’t take. Um, which is ironic cause I’m not even that sporty, but I do love the Sonics. So there’s that bring them back. Uh, number two, my other quote is when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. Um, and I’ve, I, I didn’t get that until I got that, if that makes sense. And then, um, my theme song of my life, which will be played at my celebration of life is, uh, by Chumbawamba, Tub Thumping. I get knocked down, but I get up again. You ain’t never going to keep me down. And that’s it. Like, just keep getting back up, you know, so far, everybody on this call has survived 100 percent of their bad days. So, do the thing you don’t think you can do. I’m working on a book right now. I didn’t, I dropped out of college. I don’t, you know, like, I, I, I’ve been telling myself, I can’t do that. Well, why not? Why can’t I do it? I can try and maybe it’ll fail. And maybe I’ll never be a New York Times bestseller, but I definitely won’t be if I don’t try. So just do, do the hard things.
MARK WRIGHT 54:20
That’s awesome. Elan, how about you?
ELAN OLSEN 54:24
I would say that life in general is just so exciting. I think it’s It’s easy to forget sometimes, with the news being bad, and your grandpa’s bad, and you know, you just, you get flooded with bad a lot, and I just see the side hustle as a reminder that there’s so many fun, exciting, joyful things to try in life. And the more you try, the more you know about yourself, the more you know what you definitely don’t like. I don’t know, I just think it’s such a good way of exploring your own identity through just figuring out what creative outlets you can go through. So, my advice would be don’t forget how exciting an opportunity full life is.
MARK WRIGHT 55:20
That kind of reminds me, Alysse, if your mother is pretty talented when it comes to sewing and the fact that she’s made hundreds and hundreds of quilts and given them away. I mean, there’s an example of taking a skill and having a side hustle that literally warms people. I just love that. I love that.
ALYSSE BRYSON 55:36
I love, I love that I’ve become my parents and I never thought I would say that, uh, but I, I am who I am today be very much because of my parents and the morals that they instilled in me.
MARK WRIGHT 55:49
Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. Libby, how about you?
LIBBY SUNDGREN 55:52
Well, you know, I’m not. I’m a little risk averse. Uh, this might shock you, but I’m not somebody who likes to do scary things. I don’t like to jump on trampolines, really. Don’t ski, because it scares me to go down a fast hill. My only lesson I ever took, he just yelled pizza, pizza at me as I tore down the mountain. So, haven’t been back since. Um, so I, you know, I don’t know that I ever would have taken a risk or found my side hustle if it hadn’t been, you know, through my work and, and given to me as part of, you know, started as a job. Um, but I have been really lucky to surround myself with people who are not risk averse and they are very brave and they are, you know, they’ve really encouraged me as I took that on in many different ways. Um, you know, my boss, Alysse is one, my husband is one. I think a lot of the folks on our team fit that profile, my friends. Um, so if you’re feeling a little cautious, just get a, get a boost from the people around you who aren’t because I think that that can really, um, you know, help kind of quell those fears or any of those, you know, moments of self doubt that you might have. Um, because it feels good when you do.
MARK WRIGHT 57:22
That’s awesome. Well, I’ll, I’ll jump in here and then we’ll end with Jeff because I love how Jeff is able to summarize so well, uh, our time together, but I think if I had to give advice to a younger Mark, um, I would say do a self inventory and be brutally honest with yourself and it’s never too late to do that and just identify that stuff in your life that’s not serving you and get rid of it. And just be ruthless about getting rid of it. And then I think the other thing would be just to pay close attention to the things that light you up, that make you just feel joy. And also pay attention to that stuff that you’re really good at. And oftentimes there’s a great intersection there and to be able to use that stuff. I was just talking, you know, with Dan the other day about, you know, I spent 35 years in TV news and it was enjoyable. It was rewarding, but it didn’t fill my soul. And this job fills my soul. Um, and, and it was, it’s only been made possible because I achieved a level of excellence in broadcasting and in doing those skills that allowed me to translate that to this new platform that is absolutely the most fulfilling, amazing work that I’ve ever been able to do in my whole life. So Jeff, what about you? Why don’t you close this out?
JEFF KAAS 58:38
Well, I think all the advice you guys gave is awesome. And, um, it makes me really happy to know that Dan has had such a big impact on all your lives. And cause I know the other side is how big of an impact you’ve had on his life. So each of you, so it’s so cool to be like this outsider, not an actual sidekick, but just a welcomed weirdo who got invited today. Um, but, uh, yeah, so it’s so good to get to know you all better. So yeah, you can cut that all out, but really I feel blessed by this time together, um, and I always look forward to our time together. I feel like it’s all about me. Like you’re just here to let me feel good and learn. So, um, so the question and the answer to me, I think if we pursue what we love and what we truly are gifted at, we will feel a sense of flow. And in, in the body of work that I’ve spent time, uh, doing it’s, uh, that’s the discovery that Toyota kind of came up with is, hey, when you build stuff together and flow, it feels good and it’s faster, better, cheaper, who cares? Um, I know when I stick to my knitting, the things that I’m, you know, what I’m really good at, and if I choose to use that knitting to love other people. Um, something magic happens. Like the things that I’ve experienced in my life, I could never write down, could never set a goal, could never imagine this moment. Um, except when Dan called and said, hey, will you? I’m like, I trust you, Dan. I know you’re up to something good. Frankly, I don’t understand it, but I know you, I know you love me, right? So I know he loves us, right? And I know that we’re trying to figure out something that could be very awesome for, for society. And at the end of it, we’re just going to be smarter, better people that could be more useful to some other thing if it doesn’t work out. So, yeah. So as I say, pursue love, uh, with those gifts and you’ll get a state of flow. And, uh, yeah, then the money will happen.
MARK WRIGHT 01:00:26
That’s awesome. Jeff, it’s always good to spend time with you. Elan, Tamar, Libby, Alysse, love working with you guys. This has been a, just a rich time getting to know you all a little bit better and just exploring the side hustle because it’s so much more than just about money. So thanks for the time today, you all. And, uh, see you all soon. I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P family. New episodes drop every Monday. And if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING, where we are winning the game of work.
