This month on Contributors Corner, the power of neurodiversity at work. It’s estimated as much as 30 percent of the U.S. population may be neurodivergent—having things like autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and OCD.
Entrepreneur André Brisson, host of “The Impulsive Thinker” podcast, leads this conversation with fellow contributors Kristin Graham, Orlando Hampton, and Jeff Kaas. André discovered his ADHD and Asperger’s as an adult. Since then, he’s dedicated his life to helping neurodivergent people reach their potential.
“As someone who was recently diagnosed with ADHD, this conversation was profound for me,” says BEATS WORKING Host Mark Wright. “It made me realize all those things I thought were wrong with me are simply differences, and just like any other difference, they can be both a strength or a weakness depending on how we use them.”
What’s exciting is research now recognizes the value of neurodiversity in the workplace. It’s actually good for the bottom line, but for it to become an asset, it takes enlightened leaders who recognize and honor it.
So here’s to redeeming work for everyone—including those who haven’t always fit the mold.
Resources from the episode:
- Our contributors are on LinkedIn! Connect with André Brisson, Kristin Graham, Orlando Hampton, and Jeff Kaas.
- Listen to “Working with ADHD,” our episode with André Brisson, here.
- Listen to “Lessons From a Word Nerd. My Journey From Expedia to Amazon and Beyond,” our episode with Kristin Graham, here.
- Listen to “The Power of Authenticity,” our episode with Orlando Hampton, here.
- Listen to “Growing Your Business by Growing Your People,” our episode with Jeff Kaas, here.
- Listen to Brisson’s Tactical Breakthroughs podcast here and visit Brisson’s Tactical Breakthroughs website to learn more about him and start your ADHD transformational journey.
- Visit Kristin’s Unlock the Brain website to find video lessons to hack a better work experience and listen to her Fewer Things Better podcast here.
- Get to know more about Kaas Tailored on their website, and learn more about Jeff’s consulting company, Truth Bit Pull, and how they guide organizations through their own transformation into sustainable cultures of continuous improvement.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
[00:00:00] Mark Wright: The team’s all here, Contributors Corner. This month, we’re talking about neurodiversity in the workplace. Let’s have the panel introduce yourselves. Let’s start out with Jeff.
[00:00:10] Jeff Kaas: Hi, I’m Jeff Kaas and i have a small business in Washington state making furniture and airplane parts, and helping other people use our experiences to do good things in their place.
[00:00:21] Mark Wright: All right. Orlando
[00:00:22] Orlando Hampton: Hello everyone. Orlando Hampton. I’m the chief customer officer at Affinity, we use artificial intelligence to improve pairings, in business.
[00:00:31] Mark Wright: and
[00:00:32] Mark Wright: Kristin.
[00:00:33] Kristin Graham: Hi everybody. I am Kristin Graham. I run a company called unlock the brain, which is all about our performance and potential. And I am also the mother of two neurodiverse dudes.
[00:00:44] Mark Wright: All right. And Andre Brisson is going to be introducing us. Starting out, leading us off with this topic and Andre, the reason that I reached out to you to engage on this topic is that when I had you first on the BEATS WORKING podcast, it really opened my eyes to [00:01:00] neurodiversity, not only in the workplace, just in the world in general, long story short, you are an expert at, understanding ADHD and high achieving entrepreneurs and lo and behold, I got tested.
[00:01:11] Mark Wright: I have ADHD. I’m in the process of trying to figure out. Whether medication is something that I want to do, if it’s going to enhance my life, but I really, appreciate you, Andre, because you are proof that self examination regardless of age is something that is, a super important. So, let’s start out, Andre, before we get going, I need to have you explain who you are and what you do just for those who aren’t familiar with the man, the myth, the
[00:01:41] André Brisson: That’s the first time I heard that in a positive note. Usually it’s the other way around. But thank you. uh, Andre Brisson, also known as the impulsive thinker. Like I tell people, I’m a growth mindset, high achieving ADHD entrepreneur who’s also an engineer. So an entrepreneurial engineer is also [00:02:00] an oxymoron.
[00:02:01] André Brisson: So, I’m also identified as
[00:02:04] Mark Wright: an
[00:02:05] André Brisson: Pardon me if you get bad notes, but Asperger’s, which is also on the autism spectrum. There’s a debate out there if the term Asperger’s is used properly or not, but for me it is. so I’m on the spectrum as well, and uh, to me, I’ve always been Standing out of the outside, like out of the crowd, like I always stood out.
[00:02:25] André Brisson: Because of my uniqueness is the way I put it in. I’m not allowed to be myself and I’ve always questioned that my whole life. And then at 43, five years ago or six, depending on, see I’m an engineer, I can’t do math in my head. I was diagnosed with severe ADHD where the psychologist told me there’s no way you should have graduated engineer on time.
[00:02:46] André Brisson: There’s no way you should have successful companies. You figured a bunch of stuff out. and then the autism spectrum, diagnosis as well. Really clarified a lot of different things and we all go through the rabbit hole, of, oh [00:03:00] crap, I got ADHD. We were raised in a society that was bad because you do not fit the social norm.
[00:03:08] André Brisson: You don’t do it the way everyone else does. Therefore, you are stupid, you suck, you’re lazy, you don’t know anything. But yet I succeed and I get the results, but that’s not part of the conversation, of course. So once I got over, I think it’s the seven steps of denial, you get that, uh, or grieving process.
[00:03:29] André Brisson: And once I got over the, this is the end of the world, I do what I do best. I went head down, ass up, and researched the crap out of ADHD. After reading, honestly, within a year, 20 to 30 books on ADHD, and these are thick textbooks, almost, I figured out, wait a minute, there’s nothing wrong with me. I just, my brain is wired differently.
[00:03:53] André Brisson: It’s that simple. It’s a different wiring. So then I started looking back at the autism side and researched a bit [00:04:00] more. It’s different. I, I have emotions. I just don’t emote like everyone else does. My ADHD brain is not linear. It makes exponential curves look lazy, right? We run at one speed. It’s just the way things, it’s a difference of how our brain works.
[00:04:20] André Brisson: It’s not a moral failing. It’s just how we do things. So then I started looking back at the success, like the problems I had with my past, companies. my life, family, everything, and I can attribute those to my undiagnosed ADHD. Then I started looking at, hey, where’s my greatest successes? There must be some normal way I was following the books, but no, I wasn’t following the books on my successes.
[00:04:44] André Brisson: That’s when I got into trouble is when I was following the books or how you’re supposed to do things. Then I looked at, that was my undiagnosed ADHD that made me succeed. So what was the difference? One made me sink, one made me fly, right? Then I noticed [00:05:00] when, The symptoms or the HD went rampant, that’s when I had problems.
[00:05:04] André Brisson: Emotional dysregulation took over. When I had my systems and processes in place, and they were a way of managing my quote unquote symptoms, I hate to use the word symptoms, I like to say differences, I was able to hone my skills and my abilities in a controlled environment, that I, my own controlled environment, in the way I work best.
[00:05:26] André Brisson: And I was succeeding like there’s no tomorrow. So when I noticed there was a difference in how the brain works. So I’ve simplified ADHD brain. It’s an executive functioning difference. We do not plan. We do not remember things effectively as well as everyone else. It’s just a difference. Sometimes you don’t want me to remember stuff so I can get the things, certain things done quicker.
[00:05:49] André Brisson: My lack of being able to see or plan too much makes me able to work right now and not worry about a plan. So that’s one. The other one is time [00:06:00] blindness. The ADHD brain is blind to time. Our time horizon is very short. So time horizon is how far Can you see in the future and still be planned and organized? I’m a week. Do you see you want to meet in two weeks mark? No problem. Let’s do it. That is 100 years away I’ll agree to it right now. Like I can barely control the next five seven days. I can see those seven days But beyond that it’s might as well say it’s forever So that’s why I need extra support to make sure I don’t get myself in those troubles so it’s almost like a I can see time right now, but not very far.
[00:06:34] André Brisson: So that’s a difference. And then the other difference is the ADHD brain has a difference in inhibition. When they say, Andre, you have no filter. You’re right. I physically don’t. My prefrontal cortex works differently. Some would say it doesn’t work as well. I don’t think it doesn’t work as well.
[00:06:54] André Brisson: The prefrontal cortex does not filter my impulses as quickly as other [00:07:00] brains, but at the same time too, sometimes I need that in certain situations to make things progress and work. Does it get me into a lot of trouble at times? Yep, but I could always attribute back because it usually means I don’t care.
[00:07:14] André Brisson: or want to do too much about it. So those three things is ADHD simplified. And notice I didn’t get into dopamine or all this neurotransmitter fancy stuff, but if we just harness those three things, and that’s not a shot at you, Kristen, that was not a shot at you, If you can just worry about those three, then you’re going to manage the symptoms.
[00:07:34] André Brisson: So when you, when these things aren’t controlled, then they become problematic. But it’s like everyone, like even like Jeff, I don’t know you Orlando, but Jeff, Kristinand Mark, I’ve always said every strength can become a weakness. But that’s because your strength has been overutilized or underutilized and that becomes a strength.
[00:07:51] André Brisson: So, that’s why I see with the ADHD brain, even the autistic brain, it’s just the differences. If we’re utilizing them properly, it’s our [00:08:00] strengths and if not, they become quote unquote symptoms or weaknesses. And that’s the one thing about ADHD, my idea just went way, I saw something else and I just got distracted, but it’ll come back.
[00:08:11] André Brisson: And I’m okay admitting that stuff now, but before I try to come up with excuses or be worried about people, oh you just don’t know what you’re doing because you blah blah blah, but whatever, you guys babble on, you can go in your own corner and I’m gonna have my own fun here. But that’s, to me that’s ADHD simplified.
[00:08:26] André Brisson: But now with that, knowing that, let’s go to the ADHD structure. Again, another simplified system and it’s all about mental energy management. I’ve always set up my systems so I can save mental energy, routines, habits. So the first thing is picture a triangle. The top one is environment control. Okay. We’re easily distractible, especially when we’re bored. We’re not interested, easily distractible. So I got an ADHD safe office here. I got whiteboards. I don’t have a lot of stuff that didn’t distract me. Only what I’m working on here is [00:09:00] on my desk. BEATS WORKING. That’s environment control. I got different areas to work that tells my brain this is a creative space, this is a workspace, this is living space.
[00:09:09] André Brisson: When I go in there my whole brain shifts and I can transition because the ADHD brain has a challenge from transitioning from one thing to another. It can’t do it quickly. It needs time to figure it out. So we’ve got the environment control. Now we’ve got HABITS. Create the habits so you don’t have to think anymore or it overrides your triggers. So my habits coming in the morning, get the coffee, come to run my computer. I do things in a certain order so that when I’m ready to work, it’s telling my brain you’re about ready to work and go. So in the old days I smoked and I didn’t realize that was actually my transition system to go from one task to another.
[00:09:49] André Brisson: Get it done? Andre, you gotta get done so you can have that cigarette. All right, cool, go have the cigarette, come back. I can get into it again. Then I quit smoking. Then I work 20 hours straight [00:10:00] without stopping. I never had that smoke break to break the routine. So now I have to replace that habit with something else.
[00:10:07] André Brisson: Now it’s coffee or go, uh, walk or whatnot. So those are habits to create. And then the last part are rules, rules that I follow, that I created. I will not start something until I get something done. I will not answer phone calls two o’clock. After 2 p. m. on Friday afternoons from clients because they’re want to ruin my weekend because they were lazy all week So I control my emotional dysregulation by refusing to answer the phone call after 2 on Friday I do not reply to emails till Monday morning because if I see their email Friday afternoon I might stew and then say things my filtered brain will not let me stop.
[00:10:47] Mark Wright: Ha ha ha
[00:10:49] André Brisson: So those are some examples So we have that structure then and you’re really managing The weak, what could potentially be a weakness. and I’m open and honest about this. Like for me, if I’m going out [00:11:00] the door at the end of the day or during the day, and I’m not saying goodbye to everyone, it’s not that I’m pissed off or ignoring everyone.
[00:11:07] André Brisson: Do not stop me and say, Hey, do you have a minute? Can I talk to you about this? No, because I’m already late. I’m late. So I’m beelining out. So those are the rules. If you see me do that, please do not. Ask me unless someone’s dying, right? Stuff like this. So those are the rules we have in place and they change.
[00:11:27] André Brisson: And the one last model on my ramble here, Mark, if you don’t mind, it’s really opened my eyes. I was driving down the 401, what, everyone else would call it interstate Canada, we call it the 401. And I was listening to this podcast and this guy was Dr. William Dodson. He basically figured out, he goes, everyone in the world has an importance based nervous system.
[00:11:52] André Brisson: So if it’s important to someone else, to something or to them, they can find the motivation to get the work done or [00:12:00] do something. Even if it doesn’t interest them. Now the ADHD brain is an interest based nervous system. I paused it and I had to pull over on the side of 401. It just went click, click, click, click.
[00:12:12] André Brisson: So the next part is, for the ADHD brain to really get engaged and motivated, It has to be interesting, challenging, or competitive, novel, urgent, and related to anything that you’re passionate about. So if you, and if, if you say, Mark, can you do this because it’s important for me? I will really have to focus hard to focus on that task.
[00:12:37] André Brisson: It’s not that, well, I guess I don’t care, but in the end, it’s not that I don’t, ultimately don’t care as I could do it. It’s just, my brain’s having a hard time. Kicking in to get the motivation to go. Now, if you say, I can’t, Andre, can you do this, I bet you can’t do in four days or two hours. Okay, all right, now you just, kind of tricked it in. But as long as we need those five [00:13:00] things for us to go, and that’s where we can easily get into hyper focus. And the hyper focus for the ADHD brain is, It’s a lock in. I will not hear people. I will not, I can just go in and I can do, pump out two days worth of work in four, and it’s been measured, but I’m not trying to brag or anything.
[00:13:20] André Brisson: If I can get in that hyper focus, I’m in. I can’t hear the word around me. I’ve had my wife actually in my ear saying, hello, hello, hello, and she was really mad at me because I was ignoring her, but I actually got locked into something I was really interested in. Right? So once I got the diagnosis and she started underStanding when you’re in hyper focus mode, I learned this with my oldest is yell upstairs, Hey, it’s dinner time. Now they kind of, now the brain goes, Whoa, something happened. She didn’t hear it. The brain just kind of went, Whoa, I’m out. Now you repeat in five more minutes, dinner time. Now I hear it. Or she heard it. So it’s almost you gotta go, hey, hello, Andre, you there? [00:14:00] And then to get out. Challenge though is once I’m out, it’ll take me another hour to get back in.
[00:14:05] André Brisson: So it can get frustrating that way.
[00:14:08] Mark Wright: what I think is interesting is that I’m hearing that a lot of times there’s judgment by other people who don’t underDand that person with the ADHD brain or that neurodiverse brain. And there’s also Your ability now as an entrepreneur, you can structure the environment of the workplace in a way that respects neurodiversity and also how other people respond to you as a neurodiverse person.
[00:14:34] Mark Wright: They underDand you better because you’ve opened those doors of communication. I want to follow up on that stuff in just a sec, but first I’d love, Kristen, for you just a reaction as someone who’s had a lot of experience with neurodiversity. What’s your reaction to what Andre just
[00:14:50] Mark Wright: said?
[00:14:51] Kristin Graham: It’s just so illuminating and important. The examples that he gives are so illustrative of how [00:15:00] those differences can actually be very complementary. And so for me, I’m a journalist and a researcher and I was in corporate America. And when my oldest was getting diagnosed on the autism spectrum, at the same time in my corporate world, I was an executive at a large global company.
[00:15:20] Kristin Graham: And I’m learning about the autism spectrum from photocopied pieces of paper 20 years ago, because there’s so much ignorance in terms of the abilities. It’s just kind of this list of deficiencies or, it was a couple of decades ago. And around this time, I got put in charge of recruiting for this large global company.
[00:15:43] Kristin Graham: And as I was learning and I had a five year old and a three year old at the time, the three year old who would go on to be ADHD diagnosed, but at the time was literally just crawling my walls like Spider Man, the more I learned about these human brains that I had a focus group of at home, [00:16:00] the more I saw it.
[00:16:03] Kristin Graham: Unravel within the workplace and to see that amplification, especially on a global scale, when you put in gender diversity, when you put in cultural norms, and I think there’s a study out recently from Deloitte that really talks about when you have teams with neurodivergent professionals, there’s Research that shows it’s 30 percent more productive than teams that don’t have them.
[00:16:29] Kristin Graham: It really becomes this competitive advantage when you start to expand this skillset that Andre was talking about. And so it took my personal circumDances to look up and say, wait a minute, this is working here with these grown humans as well. So everything that he was saying just rings all the bells that I kind of learned
[00:16:48] Kristin Graham: on the
[00:16:48] Kristin Graham: fly.
[00:16:48] André Brisson: So going back to the cultural norms, that’s the challenge and actually the issue. Cultural norm is I’m supposed to have a lot of friends and I’m supposed to be making, they get along with everyone. But I got really good [00:17:00] tight group, small group and there’s nothing wrong. Like I’m teaching my kids, we got teachers telling them they have to have more friends and I’m telling the teachers, no, they don’t need more friends, they got a core group.
[00:17:08] André Brisson: Group. The core group is I’m supposed to do things in a certain way, in a certain order, in this logical reasoning. Well, that logical reasoning to me doesn’t work. It takes too long. I can do it this way. I’ve always gotten in trouble for how I did things, not necessarily, never for the, because I always got the result, but how I did it was always the problem, right? Get raised with that, and you’re told you’re crappy, you don’t know what you’re doing, but yet you know you’re getting the results, and you’re getting good marks, but you’re still, you still suck? That’s going to screw with your mental health. Case in point, like I had a big meltdown, you know, mental break in 42, 43.
[00:17:43] André Brisson: I was not pleasant to be around, but 40 some years of this, if, someone’s, you know, you’re going to blow. And society’s saying that I’m getting really angry as well as that angry people are bad people. Like, but no one asks them, why are they angry? Why are you [00:18:00] angry? There’s a reason. Emotions are there for a reason.
[00:18:03] André Brisson: And for me on the autistic spectrum side and the ADHD, for having these explosions, I got a lot of patients, but it comes to a boiling point where it just goes. And, and that, and that’s a problem. Trying to fit in social norms that doesn’t fit our norms, and then you’re frowned upon for not doing what’s expected. Yet you do it right?
[00:18:23] Mark Wright: yeah, the way that everybody else does it. Orlando, you’ve managed people for a long, long time. You worked in call centers for a long time. What’s been your experience when it comes to neurodiversity in the workplace?
[00:18:35] Orlando Hampton: I just want to say, for. Just reacting to what Andrea said here. I’m a firm believer in that a problem well defined, uh, is a problem half solved. and I think the way that Andre has defined this, uh, is exceptional, in terms of, enlightening and bringing attention to it and helping [00:19:00] You know, one of the things, I think about, you know, when it comes to management is, I’m in technology and, ultimately technology, its purpose, is to augment humans.
[00:19:11] Orlando Hampton: it’s an assist. for humans. And what happens is before that technology exists, we rely on, kind of human ingenuity, right? So if you were a accountant, or some kind of finance professional, 100 years ago, you could just assume that this person had some kind of mathematical ability. Uh, but at some point, technology came in.
[00:19:37] Orlando Hampton: Calculators came in. Spreadsheets came in. and now, you would never actually judge. Uh, an accountant based on how good they work without spreadsheets, right? It just wouldn’t even be considered. Uh, and in fact, if an accountant said that they do not use technology, that they would almost immediately be disqualified from, thinking about using them.
[00:19:59] Orlando Hampton: Right. And [00:20:00] so what was once viewed as, Hey, the only way you can be in this field is if you were like, it can calculate things in your mind very quickly. technology comes along and suddenly like that, that, that whole point is somewhat moot. And so that is, this is what I think about a lot when I think about neurodiversity, because I’ll say something neurodiversity is really kind of the secret sauce For why all of us are out here pounding the table and screaming that diversity, works in management or, on executive teams.
[00:20:33] Orlando Hampton: Right. And what we’re really saying is when you say, Hey, your management team has no African Americans, your management team has no women. What we’re really saying is you’re losing the perspective, of those people. You don’t have the perspectives that they’re bringing. We’re really saying that their way of thinking, their view, their The neurodiversity, if you will, is missing, from this, but we just group it in these large categories, right?
[00:20:58] Orlando Hampton: So [00:21:00] realistically, when you say, if I, I have this debate, a lot just in circles, but like, You know, if you look at like these, higher education, if you look at like the Ivy League institutions, and there’s a debate on like, the number of, African American students, I actually have something that’s somewhat controversial, and that is that if you are admitting African American students, who the only thing they have in common with African Americans is that they are African American, But there are other experiences, right?
[00:21:29] Orlando Hampton: They went to private schools, their parents are wealthy, they’ve had tutors their entire life. I don’t actually think you’re achieving the diversity that you believe you’re achieving, because they look different. and what you’re missing there is frankly, neurodiversity. It’s, kind of the, the hidden ingredient, for what all of us are pounding the table for.
[00:21:47] Orlando Hampton: So I, I think this is an incredibly important discussion. And, I think about this a lot, uh, when I’m looking at employees and thinking about management teams is not just diversity of like how people look, [00:22:00] but really it’s the diversity of how people think that is the secret sauce that actually drives the
[00:22:05] André Brisson: And to me, that’s what this is all about. Like, okay, the topic right now is neurodiversity. We’re talking about brain, but to me it’s always been from a childhood. Why can’t I not just be me and be that different? So it’s not like you said, black, Hispanic, it’s. Different. Why can’t people just be different?
[00:22:23] André Brisson: And we all do different things uniquely. And why can’t we be respected for that? Who cares the how? We just did it because that’s what was requested. I got on my whiteboard here. At first I wrote down, people get along with me, respect differences. And I knew that was wrong. But then four weeks later, I was talking to someone and my brain went boom back to that.
[00:22:44] André Brisson: And I changed respect to value. So people will get along when they value differences. I can respect a lot of people but not value them, but if we value the differences, then we should have no problems getting along, but we get egos, we get, [00:23:00] societal history in the way, but like Orlando, I really like how you said, you kept using the word different, different, different, different, and like Mark, like you tell me, like when I communicate about neurodiversity, I really try not to use the labels.
[00:23:14] André Brisson: ADHD, Autism, and that because, you know, some people say labels are disabling, but it all depends on what you do with that label. I’m using it as an underStanding and clarity for me. So what to do, I don’t use it as an excuse, but what the label does is is underDand clarity and I help people get vocabulary about their differences.
[00:23:35] André Brisson: So that when I’m communicating to people, I say, Oh, I’m sorry, it’s my hand, you see that? No, no, no, no, sorry. I have a working memory challenge. So I can’t remember everything. So I’ll write it down. I’m sorry. I’m not very interested in this. It’s going to take me a little harder to get engaged. So when we start using these types of different words, you’re not making an excuse.
[00:23:56] André Brisson: You’re explaining now the why rather than using the [00:24:00] labels that everyone judges. I get accused all the time of being heartless on the job site. Why am I heartless? Because I make decisions, rational decisions, that not everyone’s happy with. But in the end, we got to come up with a solution so the project can, the construction can restart. But they feel, they think I’m heartless because I made this call without, I don’t know, You know, sometimes he wants you to soften up. Like I’m really against making negative comments in a positive way. Like if, you know, if you messed up, I’m not going to sugar coat that. We can all come out all kumbaya stuff.
[00:24:37] André Brisson: But then someone pointed out was my autistic brain actually helps me remove all emotions out of a decision. So I’m almost a hundred percent rational. So it’s not, I care that people are going to be upset in my, you know, but I make the right decisions. I get complimented. It’s the right decision, but how I delivered it was.
[00:24:57] André Brisson: So when I got that clarity, I’m like, Oh [00:25:00] my God, that’s why I, don’t get any emotions into certain things and I can do that. But that’s a brain, that’s my brain thing. I care. Don’t get me wrong. I know it’s going to upset people. I feel bad it upsets them. But in the end, I had a problem to solve.
[00:25:14] Mark Wright: Jeff, I’d like to bring you in now. What’s, what’s your perspective on all this? You manage a lot of people. You’ve done that for a lot of years and, just would love your perspective on what’s, been said so far.
[00:25:26] Jeff Kaas: Well, I’m thrilled that you crashed at 42 and then I got to meet you afterwards, , because , this, even as you, you talk about, hey, these three tools, , the structure that you have, , I need those too. , and so I’ve already been blessed by just hearing your story again, Andre. , I love the concept of having a language to talk about our differences rather than labels And Orlando, your point about the diversity of experiences, yeah.
[00:25:49] Jeff Kaas: , when. We as a community can actually start celebrating and just saying, Hey, I’m really great at this, not so great at that. , then I think that we can, , I don’t know, more fulfill the idea of what [00:26:00] humans ought to be, I guess, in my, my worldview. So, yeah, this goes back. Uh, I know I have a kind of a , weird world worldview, uh, but, uh, the idea that we’re knitted in the womb by a creator who loved us and didn’t fuck up. So, , Andre, , clearly you were knitted in the womb to be you. And, , I I’m so thankful that I get to know you, but I also get to know more about you. And then it definitely opens my eyes to other people around me.
[00:26:26] Jeff Kaas: , we have a couple of folks that have been added that are clearly, , blessed with this skillset , and, , they’re teaching us so much about, , human. And it turns out it’s been super great for our business. So, yeah, so I’m really here as a student, so nothing more to add than that.
[00:26:43] Mark Wright: I mean, how many employers would love that employee who gets so focused, they lose track of time and is 30 percent more productive than the bozos
[00:26:51] Jeff Kaas: yeah,
[00:26:52] Mark Wright: I mean,
[00:26:53] Jeff Kaas: yeah, yeah,
[00:26:54] Mark Wright: wow, that’s, a weakness. , the idea of, of giving vocabulary and giving [00:27:00] language, I’d like to explore a little bit. more, Andre, because I’m, kind of a baby in this, area.
[00:27:06] Mark Wright: And I’m a little bit lost about how I describe how my brain is functioning. And sometimes like , it’s a little embarrassing to be giving a speech or to be hosting a podcast and completely lose your train of thought. And so I, I do have my notepad, , next to me, but well, what’s your best advice and, Kristen, if you want to jump in here too, , how That leads to underStanding to the people around us.
[00:27:31] André Brisson: Well, a lot of times, first, underDand how you work best and well. Like, a lot of it, yes, I got the brain part, the ADHD stuff, but I, , I like a lot of details and facts ahead of time. I like to learn, all right? So with the ADHD, once I can get locked into hyper focus, then my learning and fact finding goes through the roof.
[00:27:51] André Brisson: It’s fantastic. It’s just, what do you like to do best? What are you passionate for? I know that’s an overused term, but what tasks or [00:28:00] things gives you energy? Is really , what it is. Is it positive energy? Like for me, I, , I’m 49 now and I just kind of figured out what I actually am. I’m not an engineer.
[00:28:10] André Brisson: I’m just an entrepreneur with a specialty in engineering and I think I accidentally fell into it. At the time, it was interesting. It was very tangible stuff. I got to learn a lot, but in the end, I guide. I’m a guide. I’m not a coach because coach can make a bad team good because they set up the goals and get them rah, rah, rah.
[00:28:30] André Brisson: I’m not. If you want to get there, you set the goal, I’ll guide you and get you there. But that person needs a certain amount of energy. They need to be interested as well. I can’t provide , that interest. That’s a subtle difference for me. And what I never noticed was I always guided my clients and my engineering team to be better.
[00:28:50] André Brisson: Because they provide me a scope of work of what they wanted to achieve. So that’s their skill set and worked on. And there’s a lot of different assessments and whatnot. [00:29:00] Personality tests, I don’t completely agree because you basically tell that what you think you are, and it tells you that’s what you are.
[00:29:05] André Brisson: And you’re like, woo! That’s cool, but there’s some good information in there and , personality can change if you want it, but getting clarity on what you’re good at and want and then how your brain works, like even the Neurotypical brains, they’re all different on their own front. The only reason they’re called neurotypical is because they kind of gel and that’s what societies agree that’s the norm, right?
[00:29:34] André Brisson: In the old, you know, in the old tribal days they were not the norm. You required the ADHD brain to be the hunter and protector of the village. Like, that’s what they say. ADHD brains are hunters in a farmer’s world now. Like, like to me, if I’m gonna plant a carrot in a seed, I’m gonna dig it up in three days, see if it started growing. Right? Farmer can plant it. They got other stuff to do. They can wait months, and they wait, and they harvest later. I can’t do [00:30:00] that. , that’s painful for me. So, that’s where the difference is, and we gotta find. Because of my brain’s difference, To society, I gotta find different ways to make it work.
[00:30:09] André Brisson: Entrepreneurship is one of them. But at the same time, it’s fine following that. What am I here to do and what am I enjoying to do? And not be ashamed that the way I’m doing it, people won’t underDand. So let me get to the point. I tried to convince so many people never want to underDand. That’s a waste of energy.
[00:30:25] André Brisson: I just stopped. I go on. I’m finding better people. Better be around. And then when you surround with people there, they help guide you. Be the weirdo. Awesome. Have fun.
[00:30:36] Mark Wright: Kristen, we’ve talked about, , how the research says that neurodiverse people are actually a net positive in the workplace. I’m just thinking though, of that neurodiverse person trying to navigate that job interview, trying to navigate that promotion, trying to navigate just daily life within a company.
[00:30:52] Mark Wright: Do you have any thoughts on
[00:30:53] Mark Wright: that?
[00:30:54] Kristin Graham: I have so many thoughts on that, and I think it goes back to academia, [00:31:00] where it is our structured academia is the law of averages. The classroom gets rewarded on the overall performance. So outliers become disruptors. And as Andre said earlier, then that just becomes , we’re punishing something we see as a personality instead of brain mapping.
[00:31:18] Kristin Graham: And then that carried into a professional settings and career settings. And so one of the things that a lot of companies are now doing is celebrating and actively recruiting those differences. So Microsoft was a leader in that space pretty early on. I’m up at the Seattle area. So definitely want to give them a shout out.
[00:31:39] Kristin Graham: They have created a neurodiverse recruiting program that they started officially in 2015. They clearly had neurodiverse employees before then. And then a lot of other companies followed JP Morgan, SAP, Hilton, EY. But to answer your question, Mark, one of the things that Microsoft did is they do a four day Interview [00:32:00] process.
[00:32:00] Kristin Graham: Starting first with conversations, like minded peers, explaining, as Orlando said, a problem well defined is half solved. And then on the final day, then that’s more of the official interview. When my son was 17 and interviewing for his job at a grocery store, He was fortunate that the grocery store manager had experience with neurodiverse.
[00:32:22] Kristin Graham: So if he was talking a little differently, she’d say, thank you for that. And here’s the question I needed you to answer. So I think I’m going to use that secret sauce component is in the managers and leadership. I think the competitive advantage is going to come to the companies who. Educate those people leaders on how to move boulders out of the way and focus on those who can differentiate instead of follow the rules.
[00:32:52] Kristin Graham: I don’t want Andre in my 8am meeting. If he is in the middle of a focus thing, go do your thing. I [00:33:00] don’t want to reward him because we all showed up at the same time like good little people and sat around and listened to some update that was not interesting, competitive, or passionate, or any of that. Let him go.
[00:33:11] Kristin Graham: And so we need to stop seeing conformity as a Dandard for success in the workplace. And I have some other thoughts on words, but I’m going to pause
[00:33:19] Kristin Graham: there. And
[00:33:20] Mark Wright: That’s like a mic drop statement. Conformity. Not seeing that
[00:33:24] André Brisson: Yeah. I need an EpiPen for that word. I was so anti conformist when I was out of the womb. If it makes no sense to me to do it that way, I just refuse to. But Chris has got a good point. Like you can, it’s all fine. You can hire them. Like in a way, Google and Microsoft, they have the perfect environment for , neuro diverse brains.
[00:33:42] André Brisson: If you’re talking about technology and coding, that’s ideal. But if you start dealing with other. Types of companies, retail even. It’s not well known or understood how, like, I can’t, eye contact for me is very tough. To maintain eye contact, [00:34:00] if I’m maintaining eye contact a long time, I must be very, very pissed. Like, but it’s hard for me to just lock on to one thing. I fidget, like I’m, I’ve been, that’s why I dropped my fidget ball. Like for me to engage, I need to, I’m hyperactive. I got to keep moving and I don’t apologize as long as it’s not distracting other people. I think there’s, I gotta be respectful of that, but the managers need to underDand the differences, like Kristinsaid, and allow it.
[00:34:27] André Brisson: To beat and not have these conformance rules. Everyone shows up at eight. Yeah. Andre’s in. He’s fixing the problem that we’ve been looking at for years, but we’ll just leave him beat that. That’s the right thing. And especially on the au the autistic, , employees, they got a lot of unique mannerisms. That helps regulate themselves.
[00:34:47] André Brisson: Like even I have ’em. And if you see that you can’t, you gotta stop judging or saying, oh, they’re not interested. Actually, if I’m fidgeting or doing something like that, repetitive, I’m either soothing myself [00:35:00] to deal with something or I’m soothing myself so I can get more locked in. Right? I start. Long time ago, instead of judging people and their behaviors, like I say, I’ve been a student of human behavior since I was a small child.
[00:35:13] André Brisson: And I started asking why are they reacting that way? Not judging them on their reactions, but why did they react? Oh, that person upset. My biggest one is why did that one person say the same thing to this person while this other, and no reaction, and another person said the same thing to that same person and it was an explosion.
[00:35:33] André Brisson: Why the difference? You know, now I’m starting to see, if they’re, if you got a little bit of fidgeting, who cares? If they’re having a conversation, we gotta stop this judgment. Is that, I guess my, the short of my story is, is the judgment.
[00:35:46] Kristin Graham: that’s what inclusion is, right? I want to go back to what Orlando said. This really is the root of diversity and not putting a broad brush saying, Oh, well, they’re neurodiverse. So we need to all manage them one way, just as it’s like, Oh, well, it’s a [00:36:00] woman in the workplace. So they can’t handle finance or it’s an African American.
[00:36:04] Kristin Graham: We need to just have more space for the lived experiences and appreciation that there’s differences without always having to underDand. Every element of it because respect and value don’t have to come from a depth of underStanding. They have to come from space for the differences to
[00:36:20] Kristin Graham: just have oxygen.
[00:36:21] André Brisson: And here, I’m gonna give a cheat sheet for managers and leaders out there, both, , ADHD and autism. If you see one person with ADHD or autism, you’ve seen one person with that ADHD or autism. It’s not a textbook here blah blah blah blah blah. Everyone’s unique and different. So my impulsivity is a lot higher than others.
[00:36:43] André Brisson: My hyperactivity is a lot higher than others. But my motion regulation is actually not too bad once I’ve got my system. So it’s all different. You can’t Broad stroke, all neurodiverse people. You got to look at the differences. And you know what, if we would run companies with neurodivergent people [00:37:00] in mind, you’d have a better, efficient, successful company, because that means we’re concentrating on the uniqueness and making things more efficient rather than following rules that’s been around for 200 years. Yeah, that’s my
[00:37:10] Orlando Hampton: Yeah, I love that. I love that. I love that. What Andre says is so right because it fits into this whole idea around all of us are so much more than one thing. , and by the way, this is why stereotypes just fall apart very quickly if you ever think about them, right? Are Mark and I the same because we’re both men?
[00:37:32] Orlando Hampton: Are Mark and I completely different because we are of different races? , are Mark and I the same again because we both play golf, right? So if you just put all these things together and you the minute you hear someone start saying You know all women are like this Right. Oh, you already know that the statement is wrong as soon as you hear it You know because the one thing for sure is that all women Don’t actually share all these other characteristics in common.
[00:37:56] Orlando Hampton: Some are mothers, some are not mothers, some are different people. [00:38:00] Some, , work in science, some work in healthcare. There’s all kinds of different things. So you can’t just group people in that way. I actually think, I mean, one of the things here, and I think about this from a business perspective is that this is an incredible time.
[00:38:12] Orlando Hampton: , to be alive, , from like, , a business perspective, because there’s an opportunity here to find the talent, , that has been hidden by brains that function differently. And this is like a key thing, uh, in the business world is like finding the talent, right? So, you know, my mother is an incredible writer.
[00:38:32] Orlando Hampton: My mother also cannot type. So suddenly, , the world lost an incredible writer. It was like, Hey, there’s an incredible writer that existed, but this woman can’t type. Well, guess what? Voice to text. Suddenly my mother is an incredible writer again. Right. And so the world is filled with people in these situations right now.
[00:38:52] Orlando Hampton: Right. It’s that, you know, and we have, we’ve tapped all of these places where we expect to get the talent from. Now we have to go to the [00:39:00] other places, uh, and these are brains that are simply functioning differently. And can we get to those places and still find this incredible talent? And so to me, that, that’s like, that’s the main thing I do as like an executive is really try to uncover, , these pockets of hidden talent.
[00:39:17] Orlando Hampton: Uh, and when you can do that, uh, it’s a huge advantage for you in the business world.
[00:39:28] Mark Wright: and you’ve been in the business of developing people for decades now, , as you look through the lens of neurodiversity and you guys are always trying to figure out a better process, right?
[00:39:38] Mark Wright: Because a better process leads to more fulfilled employees, more profit. , through that lens, Jeff. In your business, I’d love just your thoughts on that, because it seems like you’ve been a student of looking at and perceiving the individuality of your people for decades now.
[00:39:56] Jeff Kaas: I’m seeing it differently as a result of this conversation. So I [00:40:00] appreciate the question, which is awesome, which I kind of expected. , so a couple of thoughts. Number one, it’s this idea of conformity being the de facto policy in the world. It’s like, Oh, my brain is going to explode three times today on that one.
[00:40:12] Jeff Kaas: And we’re facing these conversations today. Cause if we organize the business around really. Oh, hey, Andre, , he’s gonna fidget over there and then the other person’s like, he’s distracting to me. Will you stop him from fidgeting? So there’s this, my brain is like, okay, what do you do with that?
[00:40:26] Jeff Kaas: Other than to say conformity is, not necessarily the goal. , so the production system, the beauty, beautiful thing about a production system is, , I think it might fit into the structure that Andre mentioned. So, environmental control. So you’ll see organizations that embrace, , the Toyota production system.
[00:40:43] Jeff Kaas: Things are usually very, very, very well organized. When you Dand in an environment where it’s not distracting, it actually removes some of the seven wastes. So, , As you described all this stuff, I think you described me in some level. So maybe I need to go to the testing with you, Mark.
[00:40:59] Jeff Kaas: , [00:41:00] rules. Uh, I call them policies. I have a shit ton of policies to keep me from screwing up. , I don’t call them rules, but, , and then the habits for sure, a huge part of our system. , basically we think if we set in a habit in place, we liberate the human beings to be themselves. , and then there’s an additional policy we have is we actually encourage people.
[00:41:18] Jeff Kaas: Discover your gifting and get great at using them and pair with people who have different gifting. That’s been policy for us for about 10 years. , so this really fits really, really well. , but I think where I’m, , not troubled, but I’m trying to think of, okay, Hey, the world’s just set up for the average.
[00:41:33] Jeff Kaas: So the neurotypical people fit in the bell curve and, , this world we live in now we can educate everybody based on their actual needs. So I’m thinking about the societal ramifications of the fact that. , we educate to an average, we preach to an average, we, , almost all the systems are set up to average people, which means nobody.
[00:41:54] Jeff Kaas: So there is a opportunity for society now to actually educate and, [00:42:00] uh, live in a way that’s unique to us. So yeah, a little bit hopeful as a result of that.
[00:42:05] Mark Wright: Gosh, I, my head’s about to explode as well, because as I think about my life experience, I was that kid who never shut up. I was that kid who could never pay
[00:42:14] André Brisson: And you’re on the microphone
[00:42:15] Mark Wright: I was that kid. I know, and I was that kid who
[00:42:20] Mark Wright: was just all, all over the place. And I just thank God that I failed in hotel management to the point where I had to change my major in college , and start doing this.
[00:42:31] Mark Wright: And I thank God that I found. A living that allowed me to be distracted by something new every five minutes. And that was rewarded
[00:42:40] André Brisson: that’s why one of the reasons it never challenged you. , that’s the negativity about the ADHD. You have to have a shitstorm to be diagnosed with ADHD, right? You were in an environment,
[00:42:51] Mark Wright: just super introspective.
[00:42:53] André Brisson: you’re in an environment that supported your ADHD, a lot of it, right?
[00:42:56] Mark Wright: Yeah. And that I’m just lucky that I was able to have a job. I’m just [00:43:00] thinking if I joined, , Ernst Young or a big accounting firm, I would have driven people absolutely nuts and I would have been fired in six months. I have no doubt about it. Mark never shuts up. He’s always walking around.
[00:43:12] Mark Wright: He’s never at his cubicle. Oh my God. That’s why I love these conversations, you guys, because even with the experience, the life experience that we all have such deep, rich experience, we’re learning new perspectives about all this stuff.
[00:43:28] André Brisson: ask yourself or even ask the person why are they doing that or why? There’s a reason behind it. If you get that clarity behind the why, , like people are even noticing here since there’s been a lot more. If I start to scratch my knee in a certain way, I’m starting to get agitated. Then people are figuring out their own nervous system.
[00:43:47] André Brisson: Or even my assiDant Sarah, she’ll say, she’ll actually stop someone from talking because she knows I’m in a zone trying to figure something out. She’ll say, no, no, not yet. Just let him process this out, right? [00:44:00] But that’s all because of communication, but having people around me that actually value the differences. And they see the value. Like here, here’s another pillar. Everyone, when things went wrong and people couldn’t think straight, that’s when they, people wanted me around. They want me around during that time. But once everything’s calm and cool, now I become a pest again. Get away, go away.
[00:44:21] Mark Wright: Kristen, as a mom, I’m guessing you have a different perspective on all this stuff because you have the protect feeling of protection, wanting your boys to, , succeed in the world and, and to be valued for the humans that they are.
[00:44:36] Kristin Graham: for sure. I think you kind of bring that the humanity into the leadership, but at the same time, I love how Andre said it too. You still have the same Dandards of it It’s just, you allow a wider canvas. And what I think has been fascinating and Orlando said it earlier, We’re in a unique time and COVID brought a larger window that allowed [00:45:00] more inclusivity because there was an equalizer.
[00:45:03] Kristin Graham: We got out of the forced back to back meetings, the water coolers, the eye contact, and we all had kind of this. Flatter platform where we had to communicate and exchange ideas and so with that introverts and different individuals who might have had a more muted voice in a traditional fishbowl all of a sudden were able to contribute differently and to put forward their work and see it acknowledged when the clock went time.
[00:45:32] Kristin Graham: away from nine to five and went into an extended workday and asynchronous, all of a sudden these talents that before were either minimized or hidden really became a core contributor and it really has forced a reckoning with we, the differences are what make us faster on a lot of levels. There was a reason there was a huge double tap into diversity work, which is still needed and [00:46:00] still, a core area.
[00:46:01] Kristin Graham: But to your question about being the mom, one of the things I’ve said to both of my boys, who are now young men, is the world isn’t going to bend to you. So there’s still going to be those components. However, so we’ve worked on handshakes and eye contacts and all the social norms just for the initial exchanges.
[00:46:20] Kristin Graham: But as Andre said earlier, my younger son was always kicked out of the class. And was punished for that. And I remember him calling me one time and I was on a business trip in Europe. And he said, I got in trouble for talking again. And I said, well, be sure to tell them that your mother gets paid to talk for a living.
[00:46:36] Kristin Graham: And what they are doing is just trying to put somebody into a box. And that’s when I knew that was school wasn’t for him. And I would say the same, we can outgrow jobs, but maybe not necessarily the company. We should be able to try on different things. until something better fits us. There’s not one job for one person and change I think is going to be, ,
[00:46:58] Kristin Graham: the new job
[00:46:59] Kristin Graham: description.
[00:46:59] André Brisson: [00:47:00] the people have to take ownership if that’s not the place to move and find it, right? To go on your point, Chris, I remember I told my grade five teacher, I was going to the principal’s office all the time because I was bored, I was distracted. And then she finally asked, why do you keep distracting the class?
[00:47:12] André Brisson: I said, because you’re boring. It’s not interesting. Like, I don’t know. I wasn’t trying to be arrogant. It was just a valid truth. Like, if you make it more interesting, I’d be more engaged. But I got my work done quick. So Let me go.
[00:47:26] Kristin Graham: me go and grow.
[00:47:28] Orlando Hampton: , if you learn to push back, , also just on things that you don’t do well, , if there’s a traditional thing that, , you don’t do well, there’s a natural inclination to like lean in. , I used this myself , when I was a kid, , I was the kid who had the messy desk. You know, my grades were pretty good, but like when it was time for that desk inspection, I was always in trouble, right?
[00:47:50] Orlando Hampton: Anytime there was a parent teacher conference, parents went in, Orlando’s a great kid, parents pop that desk open, I’m in trouble when I get home. And at [00:48:00] home, I had the messy room. Right. And, , my mother, you know, was like, always on me about it. You know, house is very neat, but my room, , danger zone.
[00:48:09] Orlando Hampton: And for years I battled with that. I tried to like make myself be neater, be more organized. And, you know, one day one of my colleagues said, Hey, Orlando. Just get an assiDant, get someone else who’s in charge of that. You’re not good at it. Put someone else in charge of it. And I was able to do that. And I’m telling you, it freed me.
[00:48:29] Orlando Hampton: And you know, I became like, when people meet me now, people don’t think, wow, guys completely disorganized. But the people who know me are like, thank God that he has these people around them. , so that he knows when to show up and be there on time. And so, you know, sometimes you have to lean in. To the things you do well.
[00:48:47] Orlando Hampton: And if you don’t do something well, regardless of the issue, right, regardless of the challenge with it, it’s okay to say, fine, that’s not my thing. And I’m not going to focus on it. Right. Let somebody else do that. You need somebody to come out here and shake [00:49:00] hands and kiss babies. Somebody else would be perfect for
[00:49:02] Orlando Hampton: that.
[00:49:07] André Brisson: don’t rely on me to finish. And that’s why I got staff.
[00:49:10] Orlando Hampton: Love it.
[00:49:11] Mark Wright: Well, as we start to wrap things up, , Andre, I’d love to ask you Your podcast is such a great platform to discuss all of these ideas and it’s really a platform for learning for so many people. What’s the most surprising thing that you’ve come aKaas in your podcast episodes and all the different people , that you’ve interviewed on the idea of ADHD and
[00:49:36] André Brisson: What I fought as a kid to justify and explain that I was right, the way I was doing it was right. I was right. I just couldn’t explain it. I had a true self. I knew how I worked well and how I did things and I wasn’t disrespectful, but the world told me I was wrong. And with that podcast, it just got validation and confirmation.
[00:49:58] André Brisson: The reasons I was [00:50:00] doing it, even though I didn’t underDand it, was working for my ADHD brain and the autism. So, you know, in there in the end is have faith in what you think is right, that you know is best for you. And if you got naysayers around you, you got to change the environment. We’re, the thing is the brain’s there to protect you.
[00:50:19] André Brisson: That’s, that was the biggest thing. It’s there to protect you, even if it’s in a negative environment or a positive environment, it’s there to protect you. So if you want to get out of a negative environment and go to a positive, your brain’s going. I’m comfortable here. I know how to fight this fight. But why do you want to go over there where I don’t have to fight?
[00:50:35] André Brisson: Because I don’t know that. So I’ll try to talk you down. And we just got to get over those and go where we think it’s right. And if we have to leave people behind, so be it. That means they’re not the people for you. They may love you, they may like you, but if they don’t want to support you so you can get better, I’m sorry, screw them, kick them out, go forward, because in the end, if you can’t take care of yourself, you can’t take care of no one around you.
[00:50:58] Mark Wright: That’s awesome. [00:51:00] As we wrap things up, I’d love to just have each of you talk about what your big takeaway. There’s been so much wisdom shared today. Orlando, what, your big takeaway from our discussion?
[00:51:10] Orlando Hampton: So many things. This was, just a fascinating and illuminating discussion, on all fronts. , I think the big thing that I’m taking away from this is that, , we tend to, categorize things as strengths and weaknesses. And I think in many cases, what we are really categorizing are simply differences.
[00:51:31] Orlando Hampton: They’re not strengths, , they’re not weaknesses. They aren’t like, , something holding you back, and they aren’t necessarily a superpower. They’re just differences. And once you can learn to appreciate, , the differences, , that people bring to the table, you’ll realize that difference, , is a game changer, , because differences bring you different perspectives.
[00:51:52] Orlando Hampton: Uh, and you won’t make the mistakes, , that you’re likely to make, , if you have different perspectives, that you’re bringing into a discussion. So , [00:52:00] I’m so touched by many of the things I need to, uh, get into Andre’s podcast, uh,, history and, and go through the library and listen to some, , because there’s so many good learnings here.
[00:52:11] Orlando Hampton: So, that’s it for me. That was really good.
[00:52:14] Mark Wright: Kristen, what about you?
[00:52:15] Kristin Graham: I think I would sum it up to say double down on what makes you different because that’s the most you part of you.
[00:52:23] André Brisson: I don’t say that often, but Amen.
[00:52:27] Mark Wright: I love it. And Jeff, what about you? What’s, been the takeaway , from your perspective today?
[00:52:33] Jeff Kaas: , actually I’m feeling emotive, emotional about Andre having to go through life and you too, Mark, with not knowing this, like having one moment of life where you’re like, there’s something wrong with me. , and yet thankful that you, Have, , gone through a struggle so that you can share this with the world.
[00:52:50] Jeff Kaas: Cause there’s hundreds and hundreds of people I know, like just going through people I know who don’t know they’re awesome and they feel weird because the world is designed for [00:53:00] average. So yeah. . So thank you. Yeah. Really great.
[00:53:04] Mark Wright: And, , I need to give some props to my boss, Dan Rogers, the creator of this podcast. He’s Actually said in meetings that we’ve had when someone suggested We should have Mark do that. And he said, and he shut it down. No, no, no, no, no. Let’s not have Mark do that. He’s not going to enjoy that. And he’s probably not going to do very well at it.
[00:53:26] Mark Wright: Let’s have somebody else do that. And I just think there’s such value in having an enlightened. Boss having an enlightened manager who knows the different abilities of, of their staff, and has the courage to say that out loud in a way that honors them and doesn’t, make fun of them.
[00:53:44] Mark Wright: I think that’s, I’m so lucky to have, a boss like that. Andre, I love how you have taken what was perceived as a weakness and turned it into a strength. You’ve created this podcast. You’ve really become a thought leader in this space. [00:54:00] And I really am grateful to you. And I know so many others are Andre that you care about making the world better through underStanding.
[00:54:07] Mark Wright: So, , I’m going to give you the
[00:54:09] André Brisson: Oh, thanks. Like Jeff kind of said, like, yeah, we did go through quite a lot, like myself, but in a way, I don’t, regret it. It was, it’s still a battle. It’s been, it was difficult, but if it wasn’t for that experience, I wouldn’t be able to do what I’m doing now. So I see that as a gift at the same time, hard earned.
[00:54:27] André Brisson: , but that’s why I help high achieving grant growth, mind, mindset, ADHD entrepreneurs, underDand themselves better, give themselves permission to be them and give them a vocabulary. So they can just work within their special abilities and rock the world and, uh, and create a community that we’re all equally messed up according to the other people, but we feel supported.
[00:54:48] André Brisson: So thanks for having this opportunity to share the story. And, anyone who wants to reach out to me, come on out. I’m willing to talk to anyone.
[00:54:56] Mark Wright: We’ll put links in the show notes, , to all of you, but, Andre Brisson, [00:55:00] Orlando Hampton, KristinGraham, Jeff Koss, so great to spend time with you. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I’m inspired once again, you guys, I look forward to the next edition of Contributor’s Corner. Thanks so much.