Join us for an insightful discussion on the essential role of managers and business owners in nurturing a supportive environment and balancing professional and personal success. Our guests provide valuable strategies for achieving work-life balance, setting boundaries, and redefining success.
Key Takeaways:
- Importance of Care and Empathy: Understand how showing genuine care for employees during difficult times can significantly impact workplace dynamics.
- Effective Communication: Learn how clear communication and relationship-building are crucial in leadership roles and managing expectations.
- Setting Boundaries: Discover the importance of setting boundaries to prioritize personal values and family while still achieving professional success.
Guests:
-James Bryant, founder of Engineer Your Success
-André Brisson, entrepreneur and advocate for adult ADHD awareness
-Steve French, corporate career expert
Resources Mentioned:
- LinkedIn: Dr. James Bryant, André Brisson, Steve French, and Mark Wright
- Listen: ”How to Win at Work and at Home,” our episode with Dr. James Bryant
- Organization: Engineer Your Success
- The Eisenhower Matrix
- Pomodoro Timer Apps
Share Article on Social Media
Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
[00:00:00] Mark Wright: Welcome to Contributor’s Corner on the show this month, winning at work and at home. We’re talking about work life balance with Dr. James Bryant and our several other contributors, Steve French and André Brisson, Dr. James, before we get to you, I want to have the panel introduce themselves in case those who are listening are not familiar with them. So Steve, why don’t you start out?
[00:00:22] Steve French: Hey folks, Steve French. We help growing entrepreneurs double their business in three years or less and make them profitable from day one. So for us, it’s all about people, process, technology, and profit. The right people doing the right things at the right time, supported by great technology. And oh, we should actually make some money.
[00:00:38] Mark Wright: And you’re coming to us from far Eastern Canada, right?
[00:00:41] Steve French: Yes, sir. St. John’s, Newfoundland, most easterly point in North America, and the oldest city in North America.
[00:00:47] Mark Wright: Awesome. And just gorgeous. The pictures that I see from there. all right, Andre,
[00:00:52] Andre Brisson: Andre Brisson, also known as the impulsive thinker. I have an engineering company called Objective Engineering, where we do what most engineers [00:01:00] don’t do, make decisions, be creative, and solve it practically, and also have tactical breakthroughs where I help growth mindset ADHD entrepreneurs gain a vocabulary and clarity on their unique needs.
[00:01:11] Andre Brisson: , and value themselves as well.
[00:01:14] Mark Wright: and if you guys listening, have not listened to the Impulsive Thinker podcast with Andre and also an amazing newsletter that comes out with great videos, check it out, it’s good stuff. Dr. James Bryant, I’ll turn it over to you. Introduce yourself for those, who have not been familiar with you.
[00:01:28] Mark Wright: I really enjoyed our episode of BEATS WORKING that we first recorded so, uh, take it away, James.
[00:01:34] Dr James Bryant: Yeah. My name is Dr. James Bryant. I’m the founder and president of engineer, your success, a executive coaching, leadership development, and consulting company where I help engineers or people with an engineering background design and live a life where they can win at work and at home. I’m also the host of the engineer, your success podcast, where we provide these tools, tips, and techniques.
[00:01:56] Dr James Bryant: To help business owners and senior leaders [00:02:00] thrive both at work and at home. And it is my pleasure to be here talking to the group today, just about this whole concept of work life balance.
[00:02:10] Mark Wright: So James, I have to ask you specialize in dealing with sort of STEM career folks, engineering types. Engineers don’t think like the rest of us, do they? Do you?
[00:02:23] Dr James Bryant: Well, there, there are two sides to that. There is a certain segment of engineers that don’t think like, say other people may think, but the reality is, and I think you’ve heard me say this before, I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Engineers are people too. So the same issues that people deal with, engineers deal with.
[00:02:44] Dr James Bryant: So part of what I do is I’m packaging my message and my marketing and my outreach in a way in which they can hear it and see that there’s someone out there to help them achieve the life that they
[00:02:56] Mark Wright: So when we take a look at the whole idea, James, of work [00:03:00] life balance, and it feels like it’s an either or, that somebody’s going to win and somebody’s going to lose. Like either the employer is going to get the best of us or we’re going to take advantage of the employer. when you first start to consult your clients, Where do you start?
[00:03:14] Dr James Bryant: So I use a four step process that I walk clients through called the Engineer’s Blueprint for Success. But before we even get there. I ask the three questions that I say changed my life, and these are the questions that came to me. When my youngest son was born at 26 weeks in the day, he was one pound, 14 ounces.
[00:03:34] Dr James Bryant: I had a 14 month old at home. I had a wife who was concerned about her body breaking down because both children were born prematurely. So she was, down on herself. I was working 110 miles north of where I live, I had a monster commute, but I had a great job, a great situation. In fact, it was my dream job.
[00:03:56] Dr James Bryant: And it was the thing that I wanted to do was the next thing on the [00:04:00] list. You know, we all have lists. And so I’m in that moment where my son is born early. We’re having issues just at home. there’s pressure at work. And so I asked myself these three questions. Do I want to win at work? My answer to that was yes.
[00:04:16] Dr James Bryant: Do I want to win at home? Of course I do. I don’t know many people that don’t want to when at home, but then I asked myself the hardest question that was for me to be honest and answer. And that is, am I winning at work and at home? And at that time I could not answer that question. Yes. And because of that, that led me on the journey to develop the process to, to use it in my life and to continue to use that.
[00:04:42] Dr James Bryant: I’ve, I’ve helped countless people Design and live a life where they are, when you got working out,
[00:04:48] Mark Wright: James, it seems like this is sort of like when we look at the political process, when our political process, which is, I’m sorry, kind of broken right now, but when it works well, it seems like [00:05:00] compromise is at the center , of the political process. Is that at the center of what you teach? Learning that there needs to be some sort of compromise for everybody to sort of get what they should get.
[00:05:12] Dr James Bryant: I wouldn’t use the word compromise, but I do talk in concepts of redesigning or redefining what success is. When I was 20 years old, success looked different than what it does at 50. When I was 20, success was, getting my degree, hanging out with my buddies, eventually finding a wife, getting a good job.
[00:05:35] Dr James Bryant: In my thirties, it was, okay, I really need to climb this career ladder. Not so much because I wanted to build wealth because that’s what I wanted to do. It was just, that’s how I define success. In, as I got into my forties, success was, Oh, whoa, wait a minute. I have kids. I have a wife. I have a career. Now I have to figure out what this success really looked like for me right now.
[00:05:55] Dr James Bryant: I cannot continue to move forward on this success that was [00:06:00] defined before because life is different. My circumstances are different. And sometimes we get caught in, we get caught in the gravity of how we’ve defined success in the past. And we don’t take the time to redefine what success looks like moving forward.
[00:06:15] Dr James Bryant: So we don’t have anywhere that we’re working towards.
[00:06:17] Mark Wright: , so James, what is the key then? Because I mean, the 64, 000 question is how do we win at work and at home?
[00:06:27] Mark Wright: I mean, it seems like if we do it right, everybody wins. If we do it wrong, somebody is going to lose.
[00:06:34] Dr James Bryant: You know, when I take people through the Angel’s Blueprint, the first step is focused on what matters most. So we’ll go through this process to really determine what matters to you at this stage in life. Not what used to matter to you. But what matters right now, after you have defined that, and we go through several processes to help you define that, then we take a look at how you’re actually investing your time.
[00:06:59] Dr James Bryant: So [00:07:00] are you investing your time in those areas that you say matter most to you? And many times there’s a gap. And when we see that gap and become aware of that gap, then the next step is. Well, we need to close that gap. But what I really want you to do is envision what life will look like if that gap was closed.
[00:07:18] Dr James Bryant: So imagine coming home for dinner, being there with your kids. Imagine being able to prepare well for the meetings that you have at work. It just depends on where , you have defined , the, where that gap is at. Then we design a plan to close that gap. And the last part is executing that plan. And so it’s not so much, Compromise.
[00:07:38] Dr James Bryant: And it’s not rocket science, right? Even though I’m working with engineers and working with people with a STEM background, it’s not rocket science. It is a, I would call a basic equation that we keep reusing over and over and over again, but it works.
[00:07:51] Mark Wright: Wow. So by defining it, then we sort of do a time inventory to see if the walk equals the talk. And that’s really cool. [00:08:00] Andre, I’d love to, to, I mean, you’ve lived the engineering life for a long time. You’ve grown a company, you’re an entrepreneur. what’s your reaction? What’s your perspective on all this?
[00:08:09] Andre Brisson: , well, I don’t live the engineering life. I’m definitely the cowboy outcast in this world. but the one thing I was going to say, like, if you don’t write it, you can’t define it, if it’s in your head. Like , that’s reality. Once it only becomes real when it’s out of your head and on paper, even verbally, if you share it with someone.
[00:08:27] Andre Brisson: So, for some reason the universe will take care of it. If you surround yourself with the right people, that, yeah, the, defining part makes a lot of sense to me. And I think that’s applicable to anyone, be the entrepreneur, a corporate. Working in a corporate world or government, the goal is being written down.
[00:08:46] Andre Brisson: And I think with, to James point too, a lot of people don’t have clarity on what’s important to them. Because I don’t think they look internally enough to see what’s important to me because society has trained me that what I think is [00:09:00] important, if it’s not important for other people, it’s not important to me.
[00:09:02] Andre Brisson: And to think that way is selfish. And I’m okay with the term selfish, it can have negative connotations and positives. So sometimes my selfish needs If it fulfills me, brings me energy, that energy is shared with everyone in a positive way. Therefore, everyone else will be fulfilled. So, you know, 42 years later, I finally figured out it’s time for me to be, I’m important, what I want to do is important.
[00:09:29] Andre Brisson: And then that helps, that helped me get to where I am now, where I’m not doing everything with my family, my kids. I’m not doing everything for work. But I’m still fulfilled and I’m finding a better balance. It’s not 50 50. I don’t care what anyone says. You can’t do 50 50. And I really like what James said at that time, like at 26 versus 46, everything changes.
[00:09:52] Andre Brisson: So this month I have to do more work because of the current situation. Still having, being [00:10:00] cognizant and present when I am home, but next month I’m going to increase , my home life. Or my personal life and then reduce the work. So , it’s always in flux, but me knowing what’s important to me first and writing down my goals, like when this Tempest, Second Life Tempest occurred a few months ago, I wrote down what I wanted to see at the end, how I’m going to attack it.
[00:10:23] Andre Brisson: And that brings clarity to it. So, and I like the term the engineer’s blueprint about what matters most.
[00:10:29] Dr James Bryant: And so Andre, what I, will say is, and you’re probably doing this, but if you’re not, make sure you’re communicating and communicating often at home. And at work, because as these things shift and change, one of the things that happens, some of the private clients that I work with, they think that their spouse is a mind reader and they’re making these changes and you’re doing these things, but they’re not communicating what’s actually going on.
[00:10:55] Dr James Bryant: And what I found that’s worked for me is to be able to communicate, Hey, [00:11:00] honey, here are the things that are going on. I have these projects that are coming over the next month. I’m going to be pretty. Tax. I’m going to be pretty tapped out, but then the following month we’ll be able to do X. So one that helps to kind of strengthen communication, but it also helps.
[00:11:15] Dr James Bryant: It puts in a piece of accountability for you because my kids are going to keep me accountable. My wife is going to keep me accountable. The boys are going to come in and say, Hey, hey, dad, you said that you were going to have more time to do X. You know what’s going on?
[00:11:31] Andre Brisson: Yeah, and I do that even with my kids. It’s, we’re going through a rough patch. I’m not going to be around, but let’s make sure when I am home, they have to interrupt me. And even with my team, I’m telling it. And plus the key point here is I’m saying this is temporary. This is, I don’t want this forever and kind of lay it out plan, but communication is key.
[00:11:49] Andre Brisson: I just never realized I did it. So thanks.
[00:11:51] Mark Wright: Steve, I’d love to bring you in. You worked at a really high level in the corporate world. And think it’s probably hardest in the corporate [00:12:00] structure to, to live that work life balance because it just feels like the larger the company, the less they actually care in terms of a, as opposed to a mom and pop business where everybody knows everybody and they kind of care about everybody else.
[00:12:12] Mark Wright: What was your experience like, Steve, when you worked in, big corporations in Canada,
[00:12:16] Steve French: Yeah,
[00:12:17] Steve French: it, um,
[00:12:18] Mark Wright: that balance?
[00:12:19] Steve French: yeah, you’re bang on it. You’re always pulled between a bunch of different masters, your bosses. And, when I finished my corporate career, I mean, this was 20 years ago, uh, we were a publicly traded company and there was always that, you know, we were always beholden to the next quarterly result.
[00:12:36] Steve French: And so all too often it was just these knee jerk reactions all over the place. But to pull on a thread that James talked about, the preparation and really figuring out what’s actually important and writing it down is the most important thing. And then one other thing that was amazingly impactful for me, uh, it’s kind of, trite, [00:13:00] but, uh, you know, the complete idiots, books, there’s one called the complete idiots guide to managing your time, by Jeff Davidson. And I’ve been a student of success my entire career, and one of the key pillars for us is that every problem that we’re going through, somebody else has figured it out. We are not unique little snowflakes. What we need to do is figure out what the issue is, who’s figured it out already, read the book, listen to the podcast. Make a phone call, et cetera, et cetera. So anyway, Jeff, talked about, a super powerful, question and process called the dynamic bargain. And this is something that I espouse. I’ve been using it for probably 25 years now. And the dynamic bargain is a super powerful question. So if you ask yourself this at the beginning, middle, and end of the day, you’ll stay on track and the work life balance becomes a lot easier.
[00:13:55] Steve French: And basically the dynamic bargain question is, uh, what will it [00:14:00] take for me to leave work on time today? and be happy with my progress. And if you take a minute to unpack that, I mean, super powerful on so many levels, but first one is you’re leaving work on time so that you’re not burning the candle at 12 ends and you’re not, pissing off your spouse and your kids and making promises that you’re not keeping.
[00:14:23] Steve French: So you’re walking out on time. So that’s, the first one. And then the second one is to feel happy about your progress. And what ends up happening is you get really, really crystal clear. Here are the two things. Here are the five things. Here are the three things I want to get done today. And then it becomes a system of self reinforcement. And so, you know, back in the corporate world, it was easy when I was walking out of my office building and hopping into my car. It’s also super important when I’m an entrepreneur and I’m working here
[00:14:51] Steve French: in my house, When I walk out of my office, that’s the threshold.
[00:14:56] Steve French: So what’s, it going to take for me to leave work on time and [00:15:00] feel happy about my progress and not feel that draw after supper.
[00:15:04] Steve French: Oh, I’ll just go in for a minute. And all of a sudden that’s one 30 in the morning,
[00:15:07] Steve French: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Here’s the most important part of this with the dynamic bargain. When you get crystal clear on what it is that you’re going to do that day to make you feel happy, inevitably. Interruptions come and a client calls, one of the kids calls, whatever, and you get these requests that come and I’m a recovering yes a holic and I want to say yes, we all want to say yes.
[00:15:33] Steve French: I think that’s kind of the default mode for most people. And what happens is, We call it the dynamic bargain because say you’ve got three things and Andre gives me a call and says, Steve, I’d like your help with this. Absolutely, Andre, let’s talk about what do you need? And then I can make an assessment.
[00:15:50] Steve French: I’ve got my three things for the day and Andre’s request is coming in on top of that. Is it more important than one of my three? Absolutely. If it [00:16:00] is great, Andre, I’ll be happy to help you with that, but it’s dynamic for a reason. Something’s got to fall off the bottom.
[00:16:07] Dr James Bryant: Yep.
[00:16:07] Steve French: Here’s the other scenario. If it’s not as important as the three, I can just say to Andre, you know what, I’m really slammed today, but I’ll tell you what, I’ve got a opening at 10 o’clock on Thursday.
[00:16:17] Steve French: How about that? Nine times out of 10, when people are calling us asking for our help, they’re not expecting us to drop everything. They’re not expecting us to just blow up our day. They’re just trying to get something off of their own list.
[00:16:30] Steve French: and they’re reaching out for help. It doesn’t need to be done immediately. So with that dynamic bargain and with that, with that power comes the ability to not get through the end of your day and go, how was your day today? , I was really busy. Right.
[00:16:48] Steve French: So anyway, that’s, been kind of my, secret superpower.
[00:16:51] Mark Wright: Wow. That sounds really cool, Andre.
[00:16:54] Andre Brisson: Yeah, and that’s one thing I learned with clients, usually they call to find out when you’re available, not necessarily now.
[00:16:59] Mark Wright: . [00:17:00] That’s really interesting. James, any, comments on that before we
[00:17:03] Dr James Bryant: yeah, what happens is that psychologically at times we think that people need us now and they want us now. So there is a predisposition for us to want to say yes to want to do that. That’s why it’s. Very important to be able to focus on what’s important for that day, whether you’re using that dynamic question, whether you’re looking at what’s important now, it, you have to be able , to define that.
[00:17:26] Dr James Bryant: Input boundaries around that. Now people sometime mistake boundaries, as something that can’t be crossed. No boundaries can be crossed. You just need to build a bridge to cross them. The boundary is there for a reason for protection. And when you want something to cross. You put the bridge down, you let people, you let the issue or the thing through, but if you think about it as, I think one time I was, having a discussion with someone and I was able to, in the middle of my career, after I was answered these three questions, I said, I built a mold.[00:18:00]
[00:18:00] Dr James Bryant: Around time with my family. I really structured everything around my ability to be flexible and present with them. Does that mean that I didn’t stay late? Didn’t travel? No, I traveled. There were times that I stayed late, but I was much more in control of that because I built that moat around it and started thinking about controlled access to my time versus unfettered access to my time.
[00:18:29] Andre Brisson: Like, James, what you were saying earlier about how it’s, you feel important. that’s why you want to respond. That’s what I realized a long time ago with my fetish or sorry, not my, my addiction to emails, it’s all the ego. I felt important by replying right away. It was all about me, not about the client.
[00:18:50] Andre Brisson: Like Steve said, they’re dumping it on you so it’s not on their plate anymore. And I needed to feel important. That was a self confidence thing. And then once I kind of said, no, this is all, this is me [00:19:00] problem. And I was able to separate and I like that bridge concept around the moat. Um, but that’s a drawbridge.
[00:19:06] Andre Brisson: You can lower it and raise
[00:19:08] Dr James Bryant: You can lower and raise it you lower to raise it as required and here’s the lie That many of us grew up hearing and some of us actually believed and that is I am doing all of this for them. I’m doing all of this for you. I am working these long hours. I’m making all of this money. I’m spending absolutely no time with you.
[00:19:33] Dr James Bryant: I’m not investing any emotional time with you, but I’m doing it all for you. Although I never see you, I’m doing it all for you. I mean, I’m being facetious as I’m saying it’s, that dogmatically, but that is a flat out lie. You are doing it for yourself. And when you learn to accept that you are doing those things for yourself, then you will have the strength and the will to make changes.
[00:19:59] Dr James Bryant: If [00:20:00] you’re always putting it on someone else, you will never make the change,
[00:20:04] Andre Brisson: So I agree. I just want to clarify to the listeners here is we’re not saying that we’re all selfish. A lot of, people fall into that trap. There’s something that happened that occurred for it. You know, some would have consciously do that and justify that from a narcissist point of view. But, you know, a lot of the ADHD entrepreneurs I work with, it’s just what was ingrained in past trauma to get in there.
[00:20:26] Andre Brisson: Like for me, it was, I never felt special as a kid. So when I started getting consulting clients, I was feeling special and I remember I, what you just said, that’s why I told my wife and my kids, I’m doing this all for you. I’m working hard to have more success. And in the end it was a lie because it was fulfilling my, what my brain set up to protect me from the past.
[00:20:46] Dr James Bryant: Yeah, and I would agree with you. I’m not trying to say that, those people were selfish. I was that person in the past So it wasn’t that I was so much selfish. I just was unaware and I was You know, I was putting it on, [00:21:00] putting my behavior on other people. I was , putting on how I would pursue success on others.
[00:21:07] Dr James Bryant: I’m doing this for you, not for me. But when I change that to say, I’m doing this for me, then I’m able to see, okay, I’m able to make a more of an adjustment to say, okay, I’m doing it for me, but I also want to spend time with my family. And guess what? That’s for me too. It’s going to be for me. We think that because there are things that we find enjoyment in that that’s selfish or there’s something wrong, we typically do most things out of self interest.
[00:21:35] Dr James Bryant: Either it’s going to be good to us or it makes us feel good to do it. And so there’s nothing wrong with those things making them feel good. I spend time with my family. Yes, they get a benefit, but guess what? I get a benefit too.
[00:21:49] Mark Wright: And sometimes, James, I think it comes down to who we are more afraid of letting down. And I think, when I think back to some scenarios, I’m up on our family farm a hundred miles north of [00:22:00] Seattle, and I get a call on the weekend, Hey, we need you to come in and anchor the news tonight. So and so is sick. And I’m at like a family get together, a birthday party or whatever.
[00:22:09] Mark Wright: , and then I’m thinking, Oh, you know, and I’m afraid of letting my bosses down. I’m afraid of what that may mean the next time my contract comes up for renewal. And it seems like our families sometimes end up taking the brunt of it because the repercussions aren’t quite as scary because the fear is a different kind of fear.
[00:22:29] Mark Wright: , anyway, that’s just sort of me thinking out loud,
[00:22:32] Dr James Bryant: But what I’d add to that, Mark, is it reminds me of when people are dating, right? So when people are dating, you have the issues you’re going with, the girl you’re dating has the issues she’s going with. And when you get together, you leave all of that behind. And you’re having just a great time when you get married.
[00:22:51] Dr James Bryant: Now, all, everything comes together and you’re dealing with that. But there’s a phenomenon that I’ve kind of been able to observe. [00:23:00] And that is, you’re not afraid of, in the beginning, of letting your family down, because you think your family thinks like you. You think your family is going to be able to accept and forgive and do.
[00:23:13] Dr James Bryant: They’re going to understand. Even if you never properly communicate it, there’s an assumption That they’re going to understand what’s going on. And that is a place where we break down as well, which I go back to. We need to constantly communicate what our intentions are in what our plans and what we’re doing, because that communication can help.
[00:23:33] Mark Wright: Andre.
[00:23:33] Andre Brisson: What you’re saying, Mark, is spot on, and what James is saying too, though, like, to Mark’s point, society trained us that we need to sacrifice ourselves and family so we can succeed. Like, that was just, that was ingrained, whatever the boss says, you got to do it, drop everything, it’s the only way you’re going to move forward.
[00:23:52] Andre Brisson: And to James point about the family, French Canadian Catholic background, I think the other assumption is, no [00:24:00] matter what happens, the family will always have your back, is what we were raised. at everyone’s expense. So it’s a very, it’s a, it’s the way we were raised. It’s the way society set up and we got to break that mold of thinking and then bring it back with ourselves to what matters most.
[00:24:19] Andre Brisson: And then like Mark’s scenario, I want to spend time with my family. So I might get, I am I, is it worth the risk to get fired? And I get my contract renewed. It’s a very tough situation to be put in. And that’s where sometimes that challenge is, it’s not the person who’s making these decisions. It’s society and the norms around like Steve, like in your corporate world, you’re talking publicly traded.
[00:24:42] Andre Brisson: That definitely that mindset is sacrificial for everything else, but for them, but not for you.
[00:24:49] Steve French: There’s a power that comes in seeing how things can be handled better. And so much of, what I experienced at Strategic Coach, which is [00:25:00] how, you know, we made this connection here is experiencing, . A problem. B. A potential resolution. And C.
[00:25:08] Andre Brisson: Then that gives you the confidence to actually take action in a different way moving forward. So, you know, James and Andre and Mark, all of you gave examples of how certain expectations When they’re, uh, when they’re out of harmony with one another, that’s when we need to communicate at our best, right?
[00:25:27] Andre Brisson: And oftentimes, that’s where either as entrepreneurs and, you know, leaders, we either step back or, we’re not there as our true authentic selves. That’s where having those guidelines and those examples of here’s the situation, here’s the pattern, here’s how you can handle that in a different way that’s more impactful for everybody. Assuming that everybody else knows, especially our spouses, especially our key like right hand people, all too often we just expect them to know [00:26:00] They don’t know everything that we’re thinking. They come to understand the patterns, and they come to understand, Okay, I’m seeing this, and I’m seeing this, and I’m seeing this, and here’s how you handled it before. But, You need to talk about it. You need to communicate it.
[00:26:12] Mark Wright: I’d love the group to start. Thinking of a story where you drew boundaries, because I think this is a really important part of this equation. I used to go back and talk to young broadcasting students at my alma mater at Washington State University at the Murrow College, and I would always tell them when you get your first jobs out of college.
[00:26:31] Mark Wright: Make sure you sit down with yourself and ask, what is important? Like, what’s important to me? And then draw those boundaries. Because I remember as a young reporter in Spokane, my news director came to me and said, Hey, we have a weekend anchor position open and we’d like to give it to you. And this was, this would have been a huge break.
[00:26:49] Mark Wright: I was just an everyday reporter running around every day covering stories, but this would have been my, my, my foray into anchoring, which pays a lot better and is a lot [00:27:00] more stable. And I said, my wife is a school teacher and she works weekdays. And if I’m working on the weekends, we’re really not going to see each other.
[00:27:08] Mark Wright: And I said, I would love the job, but I’m going to have to pass. And she looked at me like I had two heads and she said, are you serious? I said, yeah, yeah, I’m serious. And she said, she said, well, okay, but you just need to know that. Your career is not going to go very fast at this rate. And , I was just like, well, okay.
[00:27:29] Mark Wright: So, about four or five months later, a morning anchor job came open and, uh, it was weekdays. And, she came to me and said, do you want the job? And I said, yeah. And I tell that story to broadcast these students to, to say that if you don’t draw the boundaries, they will get drawn for you.
[00:27:44] Dr James Bryant: Yes.
[00:27:46] Mark Wright: and you have to live with the consequences. Sometimes your decision will cost you, but at least, like you said at the very outset, James, when you make the distinction of what’s important, then you know what to do next. It’s not [00:28:00] like a big struggle or mystery. Right. I’d love some, boundary drawing stories , to get the drama amped up.
[00:28:07] Andre Brisson: I just thought, I like your analysis, like if you don’t set your boundaries, not analysis, Analogy. The boundaries are set for you, but I think it’s a fence is set up for you. Then you’re fenced in
[00:28:18] Dr James Bryant: Yeah.
[00:28:19] Andre Brisson: others. Oh,
[00:28:25] Dr James Bryant: when I asked myself those three questions, I started going through this process and determining what was important to me. So that meant that I started working more offsite and I wasn’t going up to Washington, DC and I wasn’t in the office.
[00:28:38] Dr James Bryant: As often, and they were, they had the flexibility to allow me to do that. But as time went on, there were opportunities for promotions for me to, go up to that next level to manage the whole group. And they are like, okay, James, we have this position. We would love for you to apply and do that. We think [00:29:00] you’re perfect for it.
[00:29:01] Dr James Bryant: Here’s the thing you’ll have to be in DC every day. And I said, Hmm, no, thank you. And they’re like, what do you mean? No, thank you. It’s like, no, no, thank you. Well, you and your wife talked about moving up here at one time and you were so ambitious. And so what happened to your ambition? And my response was, I’m still very ambitious.
[00:29:24] Dr James Bryant: It’s just that my priorities have changed. So now it’s really important for me to be able to provide value to you as my employer. And to be there for my family. So, let me ask you a question. Are you displeased with the value that you’re getting right now from me? No, actually we want to promote you. Well, if you’re fine with what you’re getting, I’m fine with what I’m giving.
[00:29:45] Dr James Bryant: And I’m also fine with the situation that I have now, at home. And that, was it. Very similar to what you said, Mark. Three months later, They came back and said, Hey, we’re going to give you the promotion anyway. You don’t have to come up here every day. and so I was able [00:30:00] to kind of craft this whole, when I talk about winning at work and at home and making those hard decisions, that was a hard decision for me from the standpoint, from a career perspective.
[00:30:10] Dr James Bryant: But it was an easy decision to make because I had already defined what was really important to me. And so once you have it written down, once you know what’s important, you can start building your blueprint. You can start building your playbook for what you want to do so that you can live the life that you want.
[00:30:27] Dr James Bryant: And when your situation and circumstances change. Guess what? You start rewriting the playbook because now there may be certain different things that are important to you. So my, my boys are, one’s will be a senior in high school next year. The other’s ninth going to 10th grade. So three years from now, they’re both going to be off in college.
[00:30:48] Dr James Bryant: And my wife and I are going to be here like, Uh, okay. What do we want to do now? So I’m looking forward to both of us sitting down to redefine what does success [00:31:00] look like at this next stage of life?
[00:31:02] Mark Wright: That’s awesome. Steve.
[00:31:03] Steve French: I actually have a question, James, just to follow up on
[00:31:06] Steve French: that. When they presented you with the opportunity and you politely declined and then they pulled the, well, what happened to you? Why are you different? Did that fracture that relationship? Because I
[00:31:18] Steve French: mean, that’s, yeah.
[00:31:19] Dr James Bryant: it did not fracture the relationship primarily because. What’s the best way for me to say it, Steve? It didn’t fracture the relationship from my side. I wasn’t offended by it. I understood the question. I understood their desire, but for me, it was, this is what’s important to me and I’m not going to be upset.
[00:31:39] Dr James Bryant: I’m going to be amicable. I’m going to communicate with you. I’m going to continue to build this bridge. I’m going to continue to invest in this relationship because at the time They didn’t have a lot of people working off site. So this was way before COVID, right? So there wasn’t a lot of people working off site.
[00:31:56] Dr James Bryant: So , I looked at working off site as a privilege [00:32:00] and not a right. And so they knew where I was at, all times, my calendar, they like, I took all of the extra precautions to make sure that they understood that. And probably over communicated. If you, if those of you that are listening, you will hear me say, communicate, communicate, communicate, over communicated and to the degree where it didn’t fracture the relationship.
[00:32:23] Steve French: hmm. I think there’s a, an interesting common element in both Mark’s story and James and your story where, you know, you both were able to see the opportunity and then politely say no. And those people that were on the other side of the table, both of them came back to you and said, it. We still appreciate you.
[00:32:42] Steve French: We still value you. Here’s maybe a different way. And then they kind of got creative and said, okay, James doesn’t want to go to DC and Mark doesn’t want to work on weekends. Well, okay, let’s try and figure out a different way. And because you had handled yourselves well through that communication process, it [00:33:00] hadn’t, impacted that relationship going forward.
[00:33:04] Mark Wright: And I think, how do you fault someone who honestly says, I love my family? I mean,
[00:33:12] Mark Wright: what’s,
[00:33:13] Dr James Bryant: are people, listen, there are people that are, that will do that because we all, Think differently. And we all see the world differently. I am pretty, a happy go lucky person. I’m usually going to in fact, you know, there are people that will say half glass full, half glass empty. I’m happy to have a glass.
[00:33:31] Dr James Bryant: I’m not even thinking about whether it’s full or empty. I’m just happy to have a glass that it exists. The glass exists. I’m happy. And I’ve had people, Mark, who We’re upset with my happy disposition. Like I’m too joyful. There’s something wrong with me because I’m always happy. And so I’ve had to learn how to navigate that.
[00:33:50] Dr James Bryant: And so when you say, how could somebody fault someone for loving their family? It’s because they’re looking through the world, looking at the world through their own lens. And [00:34:00] if their lens is you’re supposed to like Andre had talked about earlier, society says you put everything aside for work. You work the long hours, you do all of these things.
[00:34:12] Dr James Bryant: You give , your blood, sweat, and tears to, Organization. And when they see somebody that’s not doing that, they don’t know, it’s like something’s wrong.
[00:34:22] Mark Wright: Andre, I wanted to go back to something that you touched on earlier, and that, that is self honesty. when you really started getting honest with yourself, and I, I remember, From our episode of BEATS WORKING with you, Andre, when you discovered that, you know, once you realized you had ADHD, you saw that one of the ways you dealt with it was just by piling on busy ness, was to just load up your work schedule so that your ADHD brain can function.
[00:34:46] Mark Wright: Could never
[00:34:47] Mark Wright: just sit there. Yeah. Yeah. The undiagnosed. and I’m just wondering that, I mean, you’ve lived through this really cool, era now of self discovery and self honesty, and you can call them the baloney on yourself [00:35:00] when that happens, but there must have been a breaking point when you were just piling on the work, your family’s thinking, what in the world, Andre, you’re gone all the time.
[00:35:07] Mark Wright: And you’re going a hundred miles an hour that talk about just. The idea of how important self honesty is.
[00:35:16] Andre Brisson: There’s no self growth or self awareness without brutal honesty with yourself. A lot of people claim they do it, they see it, but usually it’s just, Oh, I know I’m doing it, but I’m aware of it, therefore it’s justification to keep going. and what I ended up doing when I first started my first company was actually the mirror check.
[00:35:36] Andre Brisson: I discovered, go in front of the mirror, lock your eye gaze to yourself and lie. Say a complete lie.
[00:35:48] Mark Wright: This is awesome.
[00:35:49] Andre Brisson: You will not be able to maintain eye contact. You can’t even lie to yourself. So I started doing, I looked in the mirror. I said, I could be [00:36:00] arrogant and very difficult because it’s the right. I could not keep my eye gaze.
[00:36:05] Andre Brisson: So I’m okay with being that person. I couldn’t keep my eye gaze. And then that’s where I kind of discovered, wait a minute, these are things that are not truly me. And I had to own up to it. But the thing was, this was a pattern of behavior I wasn’t happy with.
[00:36:20] Dr James Bryant: Yeah.
[00:36:21] Andre Brisson: I could have just stopped there and justify it and come up with any medical, psychological reasoning for it and use it as an excuse.
[00:36:29] Andre Brisson: My next question was, why? Why am I this way? Then I started looking back to triggers. What would trigger me? What triggered that trigger? What triggered that trigger? What triggered that trigger? To the point where I got early warning systems. But that was the mirror check. So once I started getting real and true with myself, and I could not lie to myself, then I got some severe self awareness.
[00:36:52] Andre Brisson: So this was on my pre diagnosed days as well, and then when I did get the diagnosis, I did it again. But now it was [00:37:00] more a sense of, I learned to play this character, and I think that’s what everyone in the world does. What Google ends up doing is they develop a character to fit in. ADHD, brain, autism, no matter what, who you are, we all fall into a pattern and Facebook and Instagram is really bad for this.
[00:37:15] Andre Brisson: You want to conform, therefore you create a character so you’re appreciated. And I start to shed that by doing the mirror check. I was, well, is this Andre’s old character’s goal or what’s important to him? Or is it Andre that’s coming out finally? Is that his true, matters and goals? I don’t know if that kind of answers your question.
[00:37:35] Andre Brisson: I
[00:37:35] Mark Wright: Yeah. no, it did. It really does.
[00:37:38] Dr James Bryant: I, I take my clients through a similar process, Andre, although I haven’t had the look in the mirror to see if you can lie, but I,
[00:37:44] Dr James Bryant: call it
[00:37:45] Andre Brisson: I test, I challenge all of you to do it.
[00:37:47] Mark Wright: I,
[00:37:49] Dr James Bryant: I, call it mirror moments where you see yourself for who you are, not who you project to be, because there’s a certain projection. that we make, but when you’re faced with the reality of your choices and [00:38:00] we’re talking through those choices and okay, so your family is important to you, but you did this.
[00:38:05] Dr James Bryant: Okay. All right. How does that line up? Let’s start really looking at your actions to see yourself for what you’re actually doing and for who you are, not for the projection. That you have or that you want. And that’s it. Once you do that, you develop that sense of awareness. And once you have awareness, that’s when you can actually take hold of something and decide to do something with it.
[00:38:27] Dr James Bryant: But when you’re not aware, it’s very difficult to grasp it.
[00:38:30] Andre Brisson: yeah, if you can’t see it, you can’t do anything about it. And Mark, just to answer your other question, which I think I did not, my family knew that I needed to be on the road a lot and out, so they kind of accepted it. I think I got fortunate, the wife I do and the kids, they accepted it. So now the transition now is I am more at home and more cognizant.
[00:38:50] Andre Brisson: So that’s. Reinforcing and building up a brand new relationship as well. So I think I’m not really happy the amount of [00:39:00] travel I did because I wasn’t present when I was home. I know that, but now if I need to travel, cause I just, that’s a need that’s important to me to move. But when I’m home now, I’m present.
[00:39:12] Andre Brisson: I’ll, I’m , not a hundred percent. I could easily say I’m 75 to 80 percent present as much as I can for my kids and for my wife. And they’ve noticed a change as well. And that was just a flick of the switch in the head to say I’m going to be present.
[00:39:26] Mark Wright: think we’re really onto something there and I want to go back to what Steve was talking about in the dynamic bargain. I think , we’re really hitting on something here. And that is time with our families. Unless it’s quality time really doesn’t matter. And going back to what Steve was saying in the dynamic bargain, how can we leave work feeling okay with what we got done so that we’re not obsessing over or thinking about it at home that night? James, I’d love your perspective on this because. At our company, at WorkP2P, our founder, Dan Rogers, has taught us this [00:40:00] amazing system called the Top Six, where we put our top six priorities for the next day. We block it out on our calendar, but more than that, we have a master list. And this is a master list of life, personal, professional, everything that’s on our plate, we put on a list so that at the end of the day, when we turn our computer off, We’re not, it’s not up here in our heads.
[00:40:20] Mark Wright: , it’s down there and it’ll be there tomorrow. And, and our priorities can get done when they need to get done. But the idea of clearing the shelf at night and going home, it just seems like there’s so much wisdom to that.
[00:40:35] Dr James Bryant: I would agree with that in terms of being able to write things down. You, you do a brain dump and you have your list and I’ll do for myself. The top three, what are, if I get these three things done, when I get these three things done today, I know today will be a success. I will do that day in and day out, but I also will add on my list of things to get done.
[00:40:59] Dr James Bryant: Those [00:41:00] that are of a personal nature. So I don’t just resign the list to work. I may add a fourth thing, but if the fourth thing is there, it’s a personal thing. It’s okay. Today will be a success. Send my wife a few text messages today and let her know that, you know, I’m thinking about her. Or I developed a private podcast for one of my sons where it’s my voice speaking encouragement into him.
[00:41:26] Dr James Bryant: It’s called James speaks and he gets it directly to his phone. It could be, Hey, let me develop another episode for that podcast, you know, for him. So I add those things to my list as well.
[00:41:39] Mark Wright: Yeah, that’s awesome. Yeah. We, put personal and professional on the top six. That’s, that’s such a great idea to be intentional, James, about that stuff, to send those messages. I love that idea of a private podcast for our kids. What a cool thing.
[00:41:52] Dr James Bryant: I love it.
[00:41:52] Mark Wright: All right. Anybody else have anything to throw in at this point? Steve, you had something?
[00:41:57] Steve French: Yeah. So, uh, there’s one other [00:42:00] thing that can really help as well. You can, use the power of the dynamic bargain at the end of the day to block out your next day. And what happens then, you’re leaving work feeling a sense of accomplishment for everything that you’ve done and the way that you’ve handled all of those potential interruptions and you were true to yourself and you were true to what your potential was for that day.
[00:42:23] Steve French: So you’re feeling that sense of accomplishment for what you’ve done today by setting your intention for tomorrow. There’s another interesting thing that happens because in the background, our minds love puzzles. Right? And even though we might be having dinner or, putting burgers on the barbecue or whatever, cleaning up, doing chores, our brains are still working on it. And so it’s kind of that sense of flow that we get when you’re on a nice walk out in nature or in the shower or something like that. You come back the next day with all the answers. You’re like, Oh, I know how to do that. You know, you’re thinking you’re banging your head against the [00:43:00] wall, but Oh, look, there’s a window, there’s a door. Andre here, light that, stick of dynamite for me. So, if you do that in advance for the next day, you just show up with all kinds of, all kinds of new energy and then it becomes easy. And then remember, I talked about that system of self reinforcement. It becomes addictive. You want to do it again and again and again.
[00:43:20] Mark Wright: Well, as we wrap things up, I think this has just been such an amazing conversation, you guys. I’d love just the takeaway from each of you. I think the big takeaway for me is when James, you were talking about super clear communication at home and at work, because when I think back to the times where I’ve had the most conflict at home, it’s when I’ve been stressed about something at work and I haven’t been.
[00:43:43] Mark Wright: Open with my wife about why I’m so stressed out instead of going to her and saying, Hey, this is going on at work and it’s really stressing me out. So if I seem a little bit off today, I mean, just even just something as simple as that. When I don’t do that, when I haven’t [00:44:00] done that, it leads to blow ups and other things, and I just carry that stress from here and it just drags into the rest of my life.
[00:44:07] Mark Wright: That, that open communication just seems like such an amazing strategy. All right, Steve, what’s your takeaway from our conversation?
[00:44:14] Steve French: I would, echo that and what James was talking about in terms of clear communication. And I’d toss in something that was a thought that Andre had brought, which is we’re not being honest with our spouse, but we’re not being honest with ourselves first. And sometimes we just haven’t hit that awareness.
[00:44:32] Steve French: And I think the interesting thing for me is there’s always elements of Sometimes we do this really, really well, and sometimes we don’t. And the issue is when we don’t, the older versions of me would probably, you know, beat myself up and, oh, I didn’t
[00:44:48] Steve French: do it, and, you know, that negative self talk starts to kick in and now it’s much more, there’s a sense of peace, okay, well, I can’t really do anything about it now, but I can change tonight, I can [00:45:00] change tomorrow, I can change something else.
[00:45:01] Steve French: And so. Taking that amount of time between there’s a problem, becoming aware of it, and then
[00:45:07] Steve French: communicating it, that needs to shrink. And that’s where you get better and better and better. And then it becomes a muscle and then it becomes easier as you move forward.
[00:45:16] Mark Wright: Wow. That’s awesome. Andre, what about you? What’s your takeaway?
[00:45:19] Andre Brisson: If you don’t set your boundaries, fences would be set up around you and you’re fenced in by other people. So that clarity just, I think that’s a good way to discuss this with my kids. That can make sense. That means someone else is controlling your boundary because you’re fenced in.
[00:45:34] Dr James Bryant: And sometimes, Andre, I think that they’re using one of those electric invisible fences where you get, where you get too close to, to, you know, something that’s like, Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I
[00:45:44] Dr James Bryant: can’t do
[00:45:45] Dr James Bryant: that.
[00:45:46] Dr James Bryant: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:49] Mark Wright: Well, James, this has been such a great conversation and I love that this is part of your life work now because you’ve had the work experience and now you’re helping others make their work a better experience. [00:46:00] So, I’d love for you just to wrap things up for us today. This has been fantastic.
[00:46:04] Dr James Bryant: . Thank you, Mark, for inviting me to have this conversation with the group. I want to thank you, Steve. Thank you, Andre, for your contribution. It’s been a great discussion. You know, for me, it’s designing and living a life where you’re winning at work and at home is not easy. It’s not trivial. And I want people to know that they are not alone. There are other people that are struggling and that have struggled to create the kind of life that they want. work life balance in the way that we talk about it is not really balanced. It’s a very dynamic and fluid situation. It’s like you’re riding on a bike.
[00:46:41] Dr James Bryant: When you’re riding on a bike, you’re pedaling, you’re in motion. You’re going straight. You’re quote unquote balanced, but you’re not stagnant. And when you’re thinking about where you want to go and you’re thinking about the life that you want to create, understand that there are going to be times where work is going to take [00:47:00] precedent, where you’re going to have to invest a little bit more time and work your effort and energy to be able to accomplish what it is you want to accomplish.
[00:47:08] Dr James Bryant: I would caution that should be probably temporary and not something that is systemic, but when you’re in that phase, Have crystal clear communication with the other people that are around you in your life, because if you don’t communicate it, you can fall into the trap of making that your habitual thing that you’re doing.
[00:47:27] Dr James Bryant: There are going to be times where family demands are going to take precedent and they’re going to be times where your family desires and wants are going to take precedent. Demands may be someone’s sick at home or something is going on that’s tragic, but there are times when you’re just going to want to spend time with your family, you’re going to want to go on vacation, and you’re going to want to do those things.
[00:47:48] Dr James Bryant: And I will echo this and I will continue to say this is that self care is not selfish. When you take the time to care for yourself, you’re able to invest the energy that you [00:48:00] need to be able to give out to other people. So if you’re continuing to give, give, give, and give, and you’re not investing in yourself, you’re not only doing yourself a disservice, you’re doing a disservice to those that are around you.
[00:48:12] Dr James Bryant: So listen, my name is Dr. James Bryant, your guide to winning at work and at home. And I want people to know that you can do this.
[00:48:23] Mark Wright: James. If people want to get ahold of you, what’s the , best way to do that?
[00:48:26] Dr James Bryant: You can send me an email, jamesatengineeryoursuccessnow. com. That’s jamesatengineeryoursuccessnow. com. And there’s, you can also look me up on the engineer, your success podcast.
[00:48:37] Mark Wright: Well, this has been fantastic. I want to thank all of you, Steve French, Andre Brisson, and Dr. James Bryant. Thanks for another edition of Contributor’s Corner. It’s always good to see you guys. See you next time.