Alysse and Libby sit down with Dan T. Rogers — entrepreneur, culture builder, and pattern disruptor — to explore how work can be more than performance; it can be a place to practice becoming better humans. Dan reveals the origins of The Sidekick Way philosophy + ecosystem, how focusing on contribution over competition led to business transformation, and why practices like daily gratitude and clear documentation can turn event chaos into unforgettable moments. Key takeaway: clarity, intentionality and gratitude are the unsung drivers of both personal fulfillment and high-performance event teams.
Resources Mentioned:
- Dan T. Rogers: Website & LinkedIn
- The Sidekick Way Ecosystem
- The Intentional Course & Intentional Sidekick App
- Classy Problems
- Alysse & Libby: Bios & LinkedIn
Connect with Us:
- Website: www.beatsworkingpodcast.com
- LinkedIn: @BEATS WORKING Show
- Instagram: @beatsworkingshow
- Facebook: @Beats Working Show
- YouTube: @BEATSWORKINGPODCAST
Support the Show:
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Your feedback helps us improve and reach more listeners.
BEATS WORKING is a platform on a mission to redeem work—the word, the place, and the way. We believe that work is the most honorable act in the universe, and through inspiring stories and practical insights, we want to transform the way people think about work and help them discover greater fulfillment in their lives. We invite you to join us as we build community through sharing and actively demonstrating what we learn.
If you have a show idea, feedback, or just want to connect, email producer Tamar Medford at tamar@workp2p.com.
Share Article on Social Media
Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Dan Rogers [00:00:00]:
Here’s the thing about the Gratitudes is it doesn’t really matter if I like it or not. Like, that’s just an opinion. I think a lot of this stuff is complete hoo ha. Like, I think it’s nonsense. Except here’s the thing is it actually works. I still almost partially throw up when I think about writing Gratitudes. Half the time I don’t even like the sound of it.
Libby Sundgren [00:00:23]:
I know it sounds evil, but it’s not, as I said, a single time.
Dan Rogers [00:00:28]:
That I’ve done it, that I don’t end up happy at the end. It doesn’t matter what I think about it. Just like it doesn’t really matter. My opinion of gravity. Like, it’s just. It’s like it’s precious that I think, well, this is how I think about it. So that’s how it’s going to be. It’s like, no, some things just work like this how it is.
Dan Rogers [00:00:47]:
So, like, if you think it sounds silly, that’s. You’re right, it does. It sounds really silly. What’s silly is not to do it because it actually works. Because if I don’t do it, it just means, oh, I want to be miserable.
Alysse Bryson [00:01:00]:
Welcome to Beats Working Winning the Game of Events, where we share stories and strategies to turn any event or life moment into something unforgettable.
Libby Sundgren [00:01:10]:
Events are wild and the people who work in them are some of the most resilient humans on Earth. If you know, you know.
Alysse Bryson [00:01:17]:
So come with us behind the curtain for a look at their most memorable experiences.
Libby Sundgren [00:01:23]:
As they say, the show must go on.
Dan Rogers [00:01:25]:
So.
Libby Sundgren [00:01:25]:
So let’s get on with the show.
Alysse Bryson [00:01:33]:
Welcome back to another episode of Beats Working Winning the Game of Events. I’m Elise Bryson, one of your co hosts today alongside Libby Sundgren. Today’s guest isn’t just a leader, he’s a pattern disruptor. Dan Rogers saw the traditional business playbook and asked, what if work could be where we practice becoming, not just performing. From truck driver to burrito roller to founder of a culture driven ecosystem, Dan is The owner of Work P2P, the force behind the Sidekick Way and the original spark for Beats Working. He’s building a system where contribution replaces competition and clarity replaces control. Dan, welcome to the show.
Dan Rogers [00:02:15]:
Thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.
Alysse Bryson [00:02:17]:
And Libby, we’re always glad you’re here. I’m always glad you’re here. I couldn’t.
Libby Sundgren [00:02:20]:
I’m always glad to be included. Every day. Every day I log in and I still have access to my computer. Like, oh, they haven’t caught on yet.
Dan Rogers [00:02:30]:
Still tricking them.
Alysse Bryson [00:02:30]:
Dan, when you launched work P2P, which was formerly known as Point to Point Transportation, and in some circles still is, you began practicing the sidekick way even before it had that name, like, 30 years ago. So where did this come from? And when did you know that it was like a way of life? How did you know that this was going to be what you were put on Earth to do?
Dan Rogers [00:02:56]:
So for as long as far back as I can remember, I sort of thought the same way, and I always did. I mean, as it related to work, I always got fairly extraordinary results. Like, I supervised grown men when I was 17 on work crews, you know, moving furniture stuff, because I just saw things differently. And it took a while to get, like, the actions in line, but, like, the vision was sort of there. And I don’t know if I just. I don’t know, I just sort of see things differently. But in 1994, I made the direct connection that work was a place that the people that I was working for wanted me to be as effective as I could be. And that effectiveness, if.
Dan Rogers [00:03:43]:
If. If I like. If I like the actions that I’m taking, effectiveness and happiness are synonymous. And so I was like, oh, I can actually get paid to practice being effective at work, to be more effective in the places that I paid for. And then I was like, oh, getting. Getting paid to practice. Be working to get paid is where that came from. And so if you talk to people that I worked with in 1994, I said, Be working all the time, because we would be.
Dan Rogers [00:04:09]:
I would be having a lot of fun and I’d be like, be working. And they would just look at me because we were definitely working like it was. We were there for sure. We were on the clock. But I mean, I. I had done a bunch of other things before that that. It was way more miserable. It paid better, too, but it was miserable.
Dan Rogers [00:04:25]:
Right. And so that’s. That’s where it comes from. And then from that point forward, it’s just been ingraining more and more. Yeah.
Alysse Bryson [00:04:32]:
Yeah. I don’t know that I look at things as differently as you do, but I know for a very long time, going way back to the early magazine days when Libby and I first started working together, we would say, it’s not a job, it’s a lifestyle. Because, like, when we showed up at work, it was. We were the same as how we showed up in all the other places of our life. And it all felt very fluid, for lack of a better word.
Dan Rogers [00:04:56]:
Yeah. No, I think we’ve talked about this plain, so I don’t think I invented anything. Like I don’t, like. I think I uncovered things that we all know and my overwhelming experience is I’m sure there’s probably one out there, but I don’t think there’s a single individual who can brag about how they’ve been successful in anything, forget professional, like whatever walk of life, if they’ve been successful, if they can brag about it, they’re doing the things that we’re talking about. What makes it different is that when I got put first in supervisory position and the management positions, then when I bought the thing, I actually designed it to do that. And the people that do it now do it despite the system they’re part of. Because corporate America absolutely insists that you don’t do the things that we’re talking about. It can’t, it just can’t.
Dan Rogers [00:05:47]:
Fiduciary responsibility to shareholders prevents you from doing the things that we’re talking about. So that’s the difference. But yeah, no, I think there’s no question that virtually every story I’ve ever heard of someone who’s been successful, they’re doing the things that we’re talking about, but they’re. And the people that do this successfully in corporate America do it despite what the job description says, despite what the objectives of the quarter are. Yeah, that’s the difference.
Alysse Bryson [00:06:14]:
When did you realize that there was your systems guy? So when did, when did you start to capture the learning and getting the systems all not just systematized but like captured, written down and you know, we use a top six app now, you know, for time management and to stay organized. But you didn’t have that 30 years ago, so where did that start?
Dan Rogers [00:06:37]:
So good, bad, right or wrong. I’m mostly self taught in almost everything. And so I’m old enough that they had just introduced computers into school as I was graduating. And so I never, I’m never taking a computers class. And so in 97, I used to borrow the one laptop in the entire Taco Del Mar dynasty. There was a couple desktops in our dynasty and I would create the process. At first it was just, this is how we’re going to close and open and all that stuff. That’s when I first started documenting stuff because it was, I found out, right, I had been wildly successful supervising people and manual labor verbally.
Dan Rogers [00:07:15]:
And then in the restaurants that didn’t work. Like, I mean like, like I would talk to them, they’re like, oh yeah, sure. And then Two days later it was worse than where it started. It sounds like, oh, we need checklists, we need all this other stuff. And so that’s where the documents, documentation started. And then when I got into, back into the shipping business, it all, it was all documented and sort of training the customer service people. Yeah, I brought all, all the documentation really came from Taco Del Mar. I mean it wasn’t, it was my words and none of it directly applied.
Dan Rogers [00:07:48]:
But that’s just like, oh, if we don’t put it in writing, people will never get this. And then I just have to continually learn that because I, I just learn at a deeper level what has to be documented. And you guys have been a part of that process where you’ve helped me uncover. Oh, here’s some more assumptions that we’ve built into it that we don’t know. There are assumptions. I thought it was completely self evident. Right, yeah.
Alysse Bryson [00:08:09]:
So we do document a lot. And my experience has been while we might not go back and look at everything again, there are parts that we do, we definitely do. So there’s a huge value to it for sure.
Dan Rogers [00:08:22]:
Yeah. And I think there’s, there’s something to be said for. I was actually talking to somebody earlier today and they felt like they were fairly clean on something. I was like, we should just write it down. I mean you can like shred it or burn it afterwards. You don’t have to like commit to it. But like, and there is something to like writing. There’s also something to.
Dan Rogers [00:08:41]:
Even if you type it, like locking it in, like you can round edges and change the lighting and all that stuff inside your head, but you put it down one way or another, it’s a different thing. And then I don’t. It was a while ago that I started, I call it fighting for the word where like I thought I had an understanding. I was like, no, I’m actually going to land it completely. And there’s been a couple, we got a little better at it recently, but there was a couple that like I wrestled for like 18 months, you know, every day, 24 hours a day. But like, like I’d have to like set it down for a while and come back at it. Just, I mean it was crystal clear in my head. But to actually get it into sentences or some sort of sequence was much, much harder.
Dan Rogers [00:09:23]:
So I think the documentation is key. It is.
Libby Sundgren [00:09:26]:
And you know, as event people, we are familiar with documentation and I think them. Well, I shouldn’t say this, this is maybe an assumption, but I think that the most Successful event. People do have a very strong source of documentation, whether they’re Google driving, excelling, you know, word docs, however they’re documenting it. You know, I know some folks who work for organizations that have a 75 page document on how to do a 10 person dinner party depending on which month of the year it is. You know, so you change up the colors or whatever the specific things are.
Dan Rogers [00:10:05]:
So yeah, when we did Eve, the little bobbleheads or the bobble buds, when we were trying to figure out like what should be her, her, her swag or whatever, like we’re like, she has to have clipboard.
Libby Sundgren [00:10:18]:
I love a clipboard.
Dan Rogers [00:10:19]:
Analog throwback. But it’s a checklist.
Alysse Bryson [00:10:23]:
Libby just got really excited. She got really excited.
Dan Rogers [00:10:26]:
It has to have a ch. Checklist. Yeah, it does.
Libby Sundgren [00:10:29]:
And you know, I’m a little bummed I don’t have my clipboard here with me to show you guys because you can open it and put things inside and then there’s also a little tiny compartment on the bottom that you can put pens or, you know, lip gloss in. And then there’s also a clip on the front.
Dan Rogers [00:10:46]:
Yeah. So back when I was part of the front lines of the business, there was a couple sort of standard jokes that I knew were going to land every single time. So the first one was easy. It was just way too easy. I’m like, our team is so good. I’m the pretty face. And I mean, to be clear, if you don’t know, I’m 5 foot 7 on top of this, right? So it’s like, so just to be clear. So that landed every time.
Dan Rogers [00:11:09]:
And then the one and I didn’t, I didn’t try to land the second. I didn’t try to land the second one unless it was obvious. And if it was obvious, I knew it was going to kill, which is, I’m like, well, our sort of ideal client is an anal retentive control freak. And when you say that to an analog control freak, they’re like, yes, they take it as a compliment.
Libby Sundgren [00:11:30]:
Thank you.
Dan Rogers [00:11:31]:
I was like, yeah, we get you. We get you big time. Yeah.
Alysse Bryson [00:11:35]:
Libby’s pupils just turned into little hearts.
Libby Sundgren [00:11:39]:
I work here because my love for clipboards and documentation and lists is appreciated.
Dan Rogers [00:11:47]:
And it’s funny in some of the networks that we’re part of, you know, no one would ever say anything bad about anyone behind their back because everyone’s just never. But on the loading dock, all truths are revealed on the loading dock. And when you hear folks, they would complain about people and I’D be like, no, actually they just have really clear standards and it’s a simple failure to follow directions. You know what I mean? There’s been people that we’ve worked with over the years that had really, really tough reputations. Actually. I think they’re unbelievably easy. Just don’t, don’t drop the ball. Like, I mean, like when they clearly tell you what, what the line is, then just be above it.
Dan Rogers [00:12:29]:
Like, that’s not, you know, and I can’t, I honestly can’t think of any of those people who, when it was very rare that they would make a mistake, but if they made a mistake, they would completely own it. They never threw anybody under the bus. They’d just be like, you know, but if you fell short or someone fell short, they would like let you know. But like, that to me is just like, well, what else would you expect? I mean, like, hello. That’s not like, that’s just, that’s how it is. We’re supposed to be pros of this. Like, we’re not. We’re getting paid to practice.
Dan Rogers [00:12:56]:
But like, but like, we’ve definitely done this more than once. So I just never, I just. That to me is part of the appeal of the event business is it’s got the show business aspect to it, that it’s a whole bunch of people that absolutely insist on the show must go on. We know there’s going to be some stuff that we didn’t account for, not because we’re not experienced, but just because that’s just life. And when it is, we just incorporate that into it and we pull it off anyways. If it’s something else, then we add it to the checklist or the system and then, and then it doesn’t, it doesn’t get us the second time. Yeah. So I think that’s what, that’s what makes this industry so much fun.
Alysse Bryson [00:13:30]:
Can we go back for a minute and just. And I know you’ve shared this story before, maybe, and I think even on this podcast in earlier episodes, but to talk about when Point to Point decided to really double down on being an events only shipping and logistics company versus before that, you were doing a lot of different things. So you talk a little bit about what that process was like and why.
Dan Rogers [00:13:53]:
Yeah, so in 2007, we were wildly successful. Like, I mean, like, if you looked at us from across the street, we were wildly successful. By September of 2007, I knew that we were going to have our best year, top line and best percentage on the bottom Like, I mean, just like, like lights out. And the years before that did not suck, by the way. Like, we, we were on a. We were on another run of consecutive Inc 5000s, and we were doing all sorts of everything. And so some of us are old enough to remember FedEx used to say when it absolutely possibly has to get there. And that was precious.
Dan Rogers [00:14:28]:
We were. When it really absolutely had to, when you needed stuff to actually land where it’s supposed to land, people called us. And so we did all these weird sort of systems things a little bit early in 2007 when we did cell tower component rollouts, which you think about where cell towers are, you’re fricking nowhere and, and just all this crazy stuff and. But we got to the place where I actually ended up hating my job in September 2007. I absolutely hated my job. I hated it, I hated it. And by September, I had already run out of, like. I tried blaming the employees first, because that’s the best place to start because that’s just like the easiest form, except of course, you’re paying them.
Dan Rogers [00:15:07]:
So that’s sort of like not great, but it’s easy. But it didn’t, it didn’t get. I mean, it was a lie. So it didn’t carry water, but it worked for a day or two. And then I tried blaming the providers because, you know, you pay them too, and so they’re easy to blame. But like, that doesn’t make any sense because you’re paying them. And then, then I tried blaming the customers and. And that didn’t work anymore because they’re paying us.
Dan Rogers [00:15:27]:
And even tried blaming the clients, but that’s our best customer. So that didn’t make any sense either. And eventually, of course, I knew it was my problem and what had started is that we just didn’t have enough vision on. On what it was. We had entirely too broad of the vision. And too broad of a vision is the same as no vision at all. And so when we looked at what we thought we could really be world class at and what we thought, what had the longest legs to it, I thought it was events. And it’s just a matter of when you look at.
Dan Rogers [00:15:57]:
So we were fortunate at that point. We’re working with, as we do now, some of the most successful organizations to ever grace the earth, at least for profit organizations. And they were spending most of their time, money and energy on these single corporate events. And so, I mean, you know, as much as we can argue about Taylor Swift or Jay Z or Beyonce or whoever you Want to talk about. I mean, they’re unbelievably successful and fantastic, but like they’re a rounding error on, on like what a $2 trillion market cap sales meeting looks like. I mean, it’s just not, it’s not even remotely the same. It’s not even Little League. I mean, it’s not Little League to the pros.
Dan Rogers [00:16:41]:
It’s like, it’s not, I mean it’s just, it’s not even. So we were doing all of that and a whole bunch of other things and so we’re just like, we’re going in on corporateness. That’s, we’re going all in on it because it’s the coolest thing out there and it’s not, it’s not the coolest thing in terms of anything else. It gets the best, it gets the best talent on the planet with the best resources in terms of money and energy else, and it gets the most focused. And so it’s like that’s what we’re going to do. And, and we also felt like we had a pretty good offering for that as well. So I mean, that helped. And I think the other things, as cool as they are and as, you know, socially cool as they are, they’re actually pretty easy to do.
Dan Rogers [00:17:21]:
And if, I mean, if you can’t roll 10 or 100 city tour or whatever, it’s the same show over and over again. Like, I mean, come on. Like, like, I mean they print the T shirt six months in advance. Like, you know, we’re doing something next week for a very large brand and, and they have no idea what’s happening next week, nor do we. But we’re going to pull up because that’s corporate events. So like the shirt was not printed, you know, six months in advance. And so I’ve been saying since the 90s, like around the corporate events, like, we’ll know what we’re, we’ll know what we’ll have done when it’s over. And so that, that’s, we like that and we’re pretty good at it.
Dan Rogers [00:17:55]:
And that, that’s, that to me is what. And that’s why we chased it. It’s like this is way more fun and it’s just what we’re called to do.
Libby Sundgren [00:18:04]:
So yeah, you hear that listeners. Dan said you event people are the best talent on the planet. Came right out of his mouth.
Dan Rogers [00:18:13]:
And the other thing I will also say too, just so you don’t think of a complete blowhard is sane, rational, wellth thought out. People don’t make it three years in this business, most of them don’t make.
Alysse Bryson [00:18:24]:
It true that track.
Libby Sundgren [00:18:26]:
I would agree with you.
Dan Rogers [00:18:27]:
If you’ve been in this business for more than three years, there’s something wrong with you.
Alysse Bryson [00:18:31]:
That’s right.
Dan Rogers [00:18:33]:
No one in the right mind stays. So this is 100% true story and I’m going to try to tell it generically enough so no one accidentally gets outed. So it was. It was probably late 2020 or early 2021. So it’s the middle of COVID and I was talking to somebody in our industry who’s a corporate event face to face, you know, on site psycho. And they were saying. They were saying, you know, we were getting caught up, my people. And they were saying they were unbelievably, they were genuinely humbled and grateful that they had gotten a studio gig.
Dan Rogers [00:19:09]:
So they were basically showing up at a studio, the same chair, doing the same thing for eight exact hours a day, and then going home. And they’re like, I just want to get out on the road and get my ass kicked. Like, I mean, they were just like, it’s so boring. And I just started laughing. I’m like, only someone like us would complain about a nice set standard, easy. I’m like, she’s like, get my lunch the same time every day. You know, it’s just like, it’s not if that’s. We need those people.
Dan Rogers [00:19:43]:
Like, we need those people to keep the airplanes flying. Right? Yeah. So it’s not a good thing or a bad thing. It’s just a different thing. Right. So event people. Yeah, event people. A couple screws loosed.
Dan Rogers [00:19:54]:
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Alysse Bryson [00:19:56]:
Well, and I remember when I started, you were like, welcome to the land of misfit toys. And I was just like, yeah, that’s right. Because it is like event people aren’t cut from a different cloth. They just. They. Yeah, they just. Yeah.
Dan Rogers [00:20:11]:
Well, to me, people that have grown up from show business that weren’t fortunate enough to be successful in show business. Show business is very cool and profound respect for it. And they’re. But it’s a short list of people. They get to actually do it for a living. There’s a bunch of people that sort of start there and then they’re like, I got to actually eat. And so they end up in corporate events. But they have that same mentality of, hey, the curtain’s going to come up and the people are going to show and we got to crush it.
Dan Rogers [00:20:41]:
And I think that that’s. It’s the people that I’VE seen that have been the most successful. The people with decades of experience, like the lifers, they invariably have some theater experience, or they’re just a straight, complete psycho meeting planner, which is a whole different level of show business. When you’re trying to. You’re hurting cats both above you and below you. I mean, it’s one thing to herd cats, but usually only in one direction. But meeting planners have to answer up, and they have cats on both sides.
Alysse Bryson [00:21:14]:
And left and right.
Dan Rogers [00:21:15]:
Oh, totally. One of the most successful I’ve ever seen. We did an event, and we were doing a series of precons. And so she would lead the introductions to the venue every time, and she would always go last. And then she would say, and I’m the glue that holds this all together. And I was like, yes, you are. But. Yeah, I mean, but that’s what a meeting planner does.
Dan Rogers [00:21:36]:
Like, you know, they have to. They have to hold. There’s a glue that holds everything together. Or, I mean, that’s the nice way of saying it, the accurate way of saying it is they have to herd cats up, down, left and right.
Alysse Bryson [00:21:46]:
Well, and glue is often a lot. I mean, you could also put culture in there. Like, culture holds everything together. And you put a lot of intention around the culture and the culture building. That happens not only inside work P2P, but outside, too, with everyone we work with. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Dan Rogers [00:22:06]:
Yeah. So, again, this is all like, this isn’t. There isn’t an individual that wouldn’t do this. The difference is. So I don’t know that I’ve shared this exactly, but. So this is like 1997. I was wearing a suit. I had taken the jacket off, but I was wearing a suit with a tie.
Dan Rogers [00:22:24]:
And I was the only knucklehead doing that because I was at. I was on site with, like, 30 or I was. It was on site and a corporation, and we’re having a meeting around an event of all things. And I thought it was way over my skis. You know, I was a former truck driver and burrito roller. Now I’m wearing a suit, trying to, like, appreciate this thing. And. And I knew a couple of the people, and they were way, way smarter than me and way more professional, way more experienced.
Dan Rogers [00:22:48]:
And they’re like, well, it’s just business. I was like, just business? Like, what do you mean, just business? Like, like. And I. Like, I understood what they meant, but it’s like, well, why would business be different? I mean, why would I be wildly different? And I want to be somewhat careful. I think this is sanitized enough. I used to live in a place where we would take. You had to take public transportation to get off the island, and you couldn’t get off the island otherwise. And I would see one of my clients on the ferry.
Dan Rogers [00:23:18]:
And so, like, I knew that they were a really, really good person, and they were actually really good to us. But there was times when I saw them interact and I talked to them a little about. And they were like, well, it’s just business. And this person was. And not that I’m a bad person, but this person was a much nicer person than I was. Like, if you were going to pick who your neighbor was, you’d much rather have this person as your neighbor. But if you were going to pick somebody to do business with, you’d pick me. And that doesn’t make any sense to me.
Dan Rogers [00:23:46]:
It’s like, why are you a different person at work? And that’s because this whole design thing, the way that work is designed, it encourages incentivize in some places, if you have the right title, it actually, you are legally obligated to do things that makes you a very bad neighbor, but a very good business person. And that’s. That’s just so. All we did is we were privately held, so we can do whatever the hell we want within reason. And so we just have policies that actually encourage us to be good neighbors. And so for a very, very long time, we’ve interacted with our community in a way that makes us a good neighbor. And that just develops a tremendous amount of trust. And I’ve told this story a bunch of times.
Dan Rogers [00:24:27]:
It’s a little bit of a humble brag, except it’s completely true. So we had a client, a large client. They asked me to go, quote, unquote, fix a program. And so I, They. They paid me to fly down to some place, and I met with these beautiful people, and they walked me through their beautiful office, and they told me what all these different people did. And then we sat down, they told me what the issue was with the program with, you know, it walked me through what the problem was. And so I coached them on how to fix the people that were doing the work who looked a lot like the people in our operations department. And the guy was like, okay, well, where do you get paid? And I said, well, look, they’ve already hired you to do this job.
Dan Rogers [00:25:07]:
Like, we’re not part of it. We’re not your provider. I’m not even sure, based on the fact that you have three people in that and sitting in there. We shouldn’t be your provider. Like, those people look like my ops department. So I will. And you guys know Angela. I said, I called Angela said, send me the email templates for how we deal with the elephant.
Dan Rogers [00:25:24]:
And they sent me the email templates and I coached them up. I said, this is. You’re just not managing the elephant properly. And the guy was like, completely dumbfounded. And they said, they asked me to come fix it. They come. Come take it over. Like, I mean, like, you’re not, you’re not ever going to be my customer.
Dan Rogers [00:25:41]:
They trust me. Like, you know all I want. If you ever have a problem again, who gonna call? So I’m gonna call you. I said, yeah, dude, like hell. They’ll figure it out, man. It’s like some little project, like, whatever. Or like the guy’s gonna call me for a lifetime. Like, it’s just like, why would you.
Dan Rogers [00:26:00]:
It’s just, it’s stupid business to do it. It’s actually really smart business to just build trust and, you know, like, that’s. This is all stuff. It’s just, it’s basic, basic stuff. It’s just we get dollars involved and people start acting like knuckleheads. And whether it’s brazen arrogance or extreme faith, we just more un. Often than not, we’re trying to end up. I want to be able to brag to my kids about how we’ve done this thing.
Dan Rogers [00:26:26]:
And my kids aren’t going to give two shits on how much. Well, one of them might give two shits about money we make. I know one of them. We’re unclear about one of them. They can figure out for themselves which one’s which. But there’s definitely one of them that will not be impressed by that part. So, you know, and more importantly, I’m not impressed by that part. I mean, I’ve had more money than I can spend in Venezuela before, so it’s just not.
Dan Rogers [00:26:45]:
It’s not my answer anyway.
Libby Sundgren [00:26:47]:
Dan, you’ve been in the events industry for a long time and have done.
Alysse Bryson [00:26:52]:
Events all over the world.
Libby Sundgren [00:26:54]:
And there are so many customers at work, P2B that come back year after year or sometimes month after month. How do you build that kind of loyalty in a customer, in a community, in the people that you work with?
Dan Rogers [00:27:13]:
Well, so the massive benefit that I had when I got started is I was joining a team and a system that was absolutely world class. So I won’t go through the gory details, but if you go back to when I started on this side, when I was a. When I went from, you know, as a truck driver breeder role and then I got into sales. When I was the sales guy, I was part of a team inside of a company that was absolutely world class. It was inside of a system that was absolutely world class. So. And I knew what we were capable of. Like, so I could walk in and be like, I mean, we were.
Dan Rogers [00:27:47]:
We were like one of probably realistically, like top 10 providers on the west coast, if not in the country. And I might even be humble bragging. And I was just a nut sales guy. So, I mean, I’m just talking about the savages I was running around with. And so we were absolutely world class. And it wasn’t just world class truck drivers on world class equipment, which we did have, we had world class customer service people who didn’t learn a damn thing. For me, they were world class when I walked in the door. And we worked for a really awesome high integrity dude.
Dan Rogers [00:28:19]:
So, like, I mean, it was like, don’t eff it up, dude. Just like, go. And so, because I understood what we were capable of, we had this massive success to start. Like, I mean, I went. We stopped outbound calls, like, right away. People started calling us. And then we had so much success, we had to figure out how to start telling no to people. Not because we didn’t want to do the business, because they weren’t our right fit.
Dan Rogers [00:28:41]:
Right? And so as we got that part figured out, it was like, oh, we need to just focus on what we’re awesome at. And if we continue to focus on what we’re awesome at and then encourage the people that aren’t looking for what we’re looking for to go to the places that they should go get what they’re looking for, then we’ll. We’ll develop that trust and really only work with the people that want our version of awesome. And so we have. And that’s when we were in the consulting business. Like, that’s. We free people up. We free up employees, we free up customers.
Dan Rogers [00:29:17]:
Sometimes customers free us up. If it isn’t the right fit, we just move on. It’s not worth it. And it’s not that somebody’s good or bad. It’s just. It’s the wrong fit. You guys have heard me say it before. I’m like, awesome is.
Dan Rogers [00:29:28]:
Is scale is a byproduct of awesome. Everything’s backwards, right? Everything isn’t backwards, but a lot of things are backwards. And so I have been really more obsessed with us, just us being as best as we can with the idea that that will create enough pull, that will, that, that’ll take care of it. Whether it’s coaching that other, you know, coaching that, that thing that I, the story that I mentioned earlier, I want to protect the innocent here, but like I remember, I mean, we, we fired customers because we got out of the way. I mean, you know, we, we have authority to haul freight anywhere on the planet and do all this other stuff. But sometimes customers are so organized, we’re not bringing anything to the table. You know, I mean, we’re just sort of getting in the way. And when that happens, it’s like, hey, look, we’re not creating any value here.
Dan Rogers [00:30:17]:
We’ve already talked to these other people. They’re more than prepared to work direct. Why don’t we just get out of the way? And they look at you like you have four eyes. And it’s just like, look, man, you’re gonna figure this out better that we figured out for you. And we still have your trust. And if you want to change how you’re organized, then we can come back and do the work. But our providers also trust us that we don’t get in the middle of something we’re not supposed to do. It’s just, it’s too hard convincing people that you belong in something that you don’t belong in.
Dan Rogers [00:30:45]:
So just like, just do what you’re supposed to do and get out of the way and frequently. And you guys have been a big part of this on some of the stuff that we’ve done, but we’ve done it for a long time. When we’re learning stuff, we’ll tell people, hey, we’re going to learn. You know, we’re going to learn on this. We’d love to help you as we’re learning, but we are learning on it. And if we get really good at it, we might charge money for it later or we’re charging money for it now, but we are learning or whatever. And that’s, that’s just, I think way. It’s just way, way easier.
Dan Rogers [00:31:11]:
It’s also a lot more honest. And it’s entirely too hard to keep multiple versus a reality. I have hard enough with one version of reality. I can’t do multiples. So it’s just way easier just to. I mean, a huge part of. When I’ve talked to people internally, I’m like, when all else fails, tell them exactly what you’re thinking. It’s your get out of jail card.
Alysse Bryson [00:31:32]:
Yeah, the truth.
Dan Rogers [00:31:33]:
The truth. Is just tell me exactly what you’re thinking.
Alysse Bryson [00:31:35]:
Yeah, very helpful. What practices keep you aligned when your clarity gets murky or your momentum dips? Because the last time I checked, you are human.
Dan Rogers [00:31:45]:
Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So try to answer this in a way that would be translatable. So invariably when I’m not in alignment, there’s the period of ignorance where I have no clue and I’m just in it. Once there’s some awareness to it, then it’s oh, I’m in what we call survival thinking. And do I want to abandon that? And my get out of jail card is I look for a paradox.
Dan Rogers [00:32:13]:
And what paradox does is that’s me trying to hold two competitive versions of truth. That just gets me into a state of open mindedness or receivership to actually let reality in. Because survival thinking is me pushing some version of this is how it’s supposed to be. Which maybe it is, but like the boss hasn’t brought that to the table yet. I’m a little ahead of schedule or a little behind schedule or just completely out of my mind. So the paradox helps me open up. Or when in doubt, like what can I do right now? That would just be constructed. Where can I be helpful right now? And that has me do all sorts of things, which is unbelievably helpful.
Dan Rogers [00:32:56]:
That has me folding laundry at 3:30 in the morning.
Libby Sundgren [00:32:58]:
You think he’s kidding, but he’s not.
Alysse Bryson [00:33:00]:
Guys. Yeah.
Dan Rogers [00:33:01]:
And that ends up. Those are really awesome mornings. It sucks for like six seconds and then you start feeling really good about yourself and then you start feeling really good about life and then pretty soon it’s all done and then you go to work and it’s fine like that. It’s that simple. Yeah. It’s not hard, it’s just impossible to do.
Libby Sundgren [00:33:20]:
It’s kind of like how we start the top six. We’ll link to it in the show notes so that everyone here can check out our top six. It’s going to be an app called the Intentional Sidekick. When you start with gratitudes, which yes, folding laundry might not necessarily seem like a gratitude, but you’re really good at it. You’re so good at holding those clothes and when you list those things that you’re, you feel good about, you’re grateful for, it really shifts the way that, that your day looks and the way that your day is going to play out. And I’m not a negative person, but I. So I feel like I’ve always been fairly positive. But one of the practices that we do here as a company is starting with Gratitudes in your top six.
Libby Sundgren [00:34:08]:
And it really does help me frame my day in a good way so well.
Alysse Bryson [00:34:13]:
And I also like it because I take it. I almost take it like a challenge or a game because I. You know, some people could just put the same three things every day and check a box and move on. But it’s like. And not to say that I’m not grateful for my dog every day or electricity every day, but I like to try to mix it up and see how many days in a row I can go without repeating something over and over again. Doesn’t mean that repeating it is bad. It’s just. I like.
Alysse Bryson [00:34:39]:
I like to bring my consciousness to a place of how much I have to be grateful for. Even when you talk about doing laundry, like, I’m really grateful for clothes, okay? I’m not someone who wants to walk around naked, like, ever. So I’m really grateful for clothes, and I’m really grateful that other people make them and I can buy them and wear them, you know, So I like.
Libby Sundgren [00:35:00]:
That’s so interesting because, you know, I usually put kind of the same things. I mean, it’s always coffee because I always do this, you know, obviously in the morning when I first sit down, it’s usually early, like five something or maybe six. Coffee’s always on there. And then usually, like the room I sit in has lots of windows, looks out into the backyard. Like that’s always. Somehow makes it in there. And then the third thing kind of varies, the second and third vary. But coffee’s always in there.
Libby Sundgren [00:35:27]:
And I. While they are a lot of times the same, I think it helps me, you know, in a world where there are so many things and it is very easy to get caught up in what I don’t have, what someone else might have, what I don’t have. It really just reminds me that just having that coffee and just looking outside and seeing green things like those really do, like, bring me joy and make me happy and I don’t really need.
Dan Rogers [00:36:03]:
All those other things.
Alysse Bryson [00:36:04]:
I’m happier when you have coffee too, for the record.
Dan Rogers [00:36:06]:
I know we all are. Well, you guys have seen the latest version of evolution of the restraints, but they’ve been evolving for a while. And originally it was. It just started off as opinion. My opinions don’t matter outside my own head. I used to remind myself of that. And it’s evolved into something else now. But here’s the thing about the Gratitudes is it doesn’t really matter if I like it.
Libby Sundgren [00:36:31]:
Or not.
Dan Rogers [00:36:32]:
Like, that’s just an opinion. I think a lot of this stuff is complete hoo ha. Like, I think it’s nonsense. Except here’s the thing is it actually works. I still almost partially throw up when I think about writing Gratitudes. Half the times I don’t even like the sound of it.
Libby Sundgren [00:36:50]:
I know it sounds evil, but it’s.
Dan Rogers [00:36:52]:
Not a single time that I’ve done it that I don’t end up happy at the end. It doesn’t matter what I think about it. Just like it doesn’t really matter my opinion of gravity. Like, it’s just, it’s like it’s precious that I think, well, this is how I think about it. So that’s how it’s going to be. It’s like, no, some things just work like this how it is. So, like, if you think it sounds silly, that’s, you’re right, it does. It sounds really silly.
Dan Rogers [00:37:19]:
What silly is not to do it because it actually works. Because if I don’t do it, it just means, oh, I want to be miserable.
Alysse Bryson [00:37:25]:
Well, I’m going to, I’m going to out a coworker. And I think he would be okay with it. Richard Miller. He has been on the podcast before in an episode with Maria. Definitely go back and listen to it if you haven’t heard that one already. But I can remember being in a leadership meeting and him vocalizing that he doesn’t love being grateful. He doesn’t. He lists the same things every day.
Alysse Bryson [00:37:47]:
And if you’ve met Richard, this is totally on brand for Richard. But I would, I think, I am not lying. I think I am a truth teller. When I say Richard now, months later, after the practice of being gratitude, not only does he, I think, enjoy it, but I think he’s now ventured out and is grateful for more than just the same three things every day. Right, Daniel?
Dan Rogers [00:38:09]:
Yeah, no, I, I, that’s, I, I don’t think we’re outing him. Yeah, no, and I, I think which in both cases, whether you just do the same ones every day or not, or I, I love the idea of trying to find something else, see how far you can go. I think in both cases it works unbelievably well. It just does. Like, it just does. And it really, it just goes to show to me it’s, it’s another piece of evidence that the greatest gift that we have is the gift of our attention. You know, I mean, like where we place that attention completely dictates how we see the world and a gratitude in and of itself. It’s not just that we’re looking at things positive.
Dan Rogers [00:38:48]:
We’re just actually looking at what is here. Isn’t that incredibly just magnanimous of us to just go, oh, let me just accept how this thing is? I mean, oh my God. Yeah, yeah. And then we get the benefit of actually feeling good. It would just be, I mean when you really think about how small we are in the grand scheme of things, you would think it would just be survival. Like hey, it’s just a good survival instinct not to push nonsense into reality. To just sort of take reality for it is. And you don’t die.
Dan Rogers [00:39:20]:
Like that would be the benefit, is that you just get to breathe air for another second. We get way more than that. We actually get joy. Like, I mean boss is super generous. Super generous. Yeah.
Alysse Bryson [00:39:35]:
No, I have a question. So the Gratitudes have been in there for a very long time. Longer than I’ve been with the company. But recently, in the last few months, you added the six word update. Can you talk a little bit about that and what the intention is behind a six word update?
Dan Rogers [00:39:50]:
Yeah, so I don’t remember exactly who we copied that one. So we got another restraint that says copy the most effective. I don’t remember who we. It definitely was not mine. And it originally is Ernest Hemingway who came up with the idea of a six word story and what you can actually transmit in six words. I’ve done some stuff where we used to do a one word update. There’s a lot of people that do one word updates. But somewhere I was in a cohort where we did a six word update and it was amazing.
Dan Rogers [00:40:21]:
The vision bomb or the wisdom bombs that people would drop. The succinctness that it forces itself. Like you try to tell where you’re at in this moment or, or you can answer any question really you want with just six words. But if you practice it at all, I mean even people that like, I’m not a writer, I’m not creative or whatever, like everybody ends up. I mean I don’t think it was the first time I did it, but the last time I did it with a group of people on a regular basis was this thing. There was about 30 of us and virtually every single person started just dropping absolute wisdom bombs. Maybe not every single time, but it’s just, I mean it’s just amazing. And we see it internally and like we know our co workers.
Dan Rogers [00:41:03]:
Like there’s some that are more woo woo than others and some people are like, like we’re all the same person. And people will be dropping some hard. Some hardcore truth in those six word updates. So I think that it’s just another great focusing exercise of really forcing us to say, okay, what are the. What are the six words that capture where I’m at? So even if it doesn’t, even if it isn’t being wisdom bomb, even if it’s just, hey, this is where I’m at, or Friday really matters.
Alysse Bryson [00:41:35]:
Yes, indeed. I know that we could keep talking forever and ever, but we are trying to keep these episodes shorter. So as we wind down, could you give our listeners maybe one tip or something to walk away with, to maybe practice in the next week that they could implement into their schedule that could make a difference?
Dan Rogers [00:41:56]:
So what I would say is I absolutely guarantee if something in your life is not going well, you’re focusing on what’s missing. And we could do it a different way and I could reveal it a little differently, but that’s just a cut to the chase. And if you do that without intention, I think it’s very constructive to say, I am going to choose to focus on what’s missing and use it as an exploratory exercise, knowing. And I’ve attached the safety rope and I’m going to go explore for the sake of what’s missing. If I have no awareness that I’m focusing on what’s missing, it will lead to misery. It will absolutely lead to misery. Guaranteed. Guaranteed.
Dan Rogers [00:42:39]:
Yeah. So that was my one tip is just be intense with your focus on what’s missing.
Alysse Bryson [00:42:43]:
That is a great tip. And I can share a personal experience that I had with that with you. Recently. We had applied for an award for the sober curator and we didn’t win. And I was. I was sad. We also spent money on it. So I was like, we lost money, but I was focused on what wasn’t there.
Alysse Bryson [00:43:03]:
What wasn’t there was we didn’t win the award. But then I had to when I stopped and really thought about the what. What is actually here is the fact that I even thought we were good enough to apply for the award. Like, there’s. That’s a lot. That’s a lot. Well, that is a wrap for this episode of Beats Working. If you have an idea or you want to reach out, please email us at infoatsworking show.
Alysse Bryson [00:43:29]:
Dan will be back to future episodes for sure. If you want to check out him and his restraints, you can reach him@dantrogers.com there’s a direct link to get at him on LinkedIn. And remember, every detail matters. Every moment counts. And no matter what, the show must go on. Thanks for listening to Beats Working, winning the game of events where we explore what it takes to make moments unforgettable.
Libby Sundgren [00:43:55]:
If you’re leaving with a little more inspiration, a little more perspective, and a big sideache from all of the laughing at our funny jokes, then we’ve done our job.
Alysse Bryson [00:44:04]:
Beats Working is a work. P2P production if you’ve enjoyed this episode, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review us on your favorite podcast platforms.
Libby Sundgren [00:44:14]:
Your support helps us keep the magic going.
