It’s estimated 1 in 20 adults in the U.S. has ADHD, and of those who have it, fewer than 1 in 5 know it. ADHD is also estimated to take a $138 billion toll on the U.S. economy in lost income and productivity.
These are statistics André Brisson knows well. He’s an entrepreneur and engineer from the Toronto, Canada, area who was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. Since his diagnosis, Brisson has made it his mission to help others. He started a podcast for high-achieving entrepreneurs with ADHD called “The Impulsive Thinker”, where he breaks down the latest science and resources on adult ADHD.
In an extensive interview, Brisson and host Mark Wright discuss how to know you have ADHD, what to do if you’re diagnosed, and how to develop strategies to deal with it.
Wright says, “I think the biggest thing I learned during my time with André is we shouldn’t be afraid to explore the struggles many of us have had since childhood. We need to realize that knowledge is power, and there is help and hope for those with ADHD to live a better life at work and at home.”
Resources from the episode:
- Visit Brisson’s Tactical Breakthroughs website to learn more about him and start your ADHD transformational journey.
- Listen to Brisson’s Tactical Breakthroughs podcast here.
- Follow Tactical Breakthroughs on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.
- You can find both Brisson and Tactical Breakthroughs on LinkedIn.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: André Brisson and Mark Wright
ANDRÉ BRISSON 00:00
And when I read that book at the end, trying hard to disprove that I have ADHD, it was like me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Oh my God me, oh my God, crying me because it wasn’t like, oh, you know, in certain circumstance or whatever it was, either it was a yes or a no, and that’s when I start to realize there’s something here, and the more I talk to people I’m hearing from the podcast, he goes, this is me you’re talking about.
MARK WRIGHT 00:33
This is the BEATS WORKING show. We’re on a mission to redeem work. The word, the place, and the way I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to the BEATS WORKING podcast on the show today, working with ADHD. It’s estimated one in 20 adults in the US has ADHD, and of those who have it fewer than one in five know it. It’s a statistic André Brisson knows well. He’s an engineer from the Toronto Canada area, diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. Since his diagnosis, André has made it his mission to help others. He started a podcast for high achieving entrepreneurs with ADHD called The Impulsive Thinker, where he breaks down the latest science and resources on adult ADHD. I had a fascinating conversation with André. We talked about how, you know, you have ADHD, what to do if you’re diagnosed and how to develop strategies to deal with it. My biggest takeaways from my time with André are we shouldn’t be afraid to explore the struggles many of us have had since childhood. We need to realize that knowledge is power and there is help and hope for those with ADHD to live a better life at work and at home, and also, this is important. We shouldn’t be quick to judge others at work. It’s possible that coworker or employee may be neurodiverse and with some questions, compassion and understanding, we could turn a perceived negative into a positive. So, André Brisson, uh, is our guest today, and André is a podcaster. He is an engineer. He is a, uh, an ADHD advocate. Um, and I just, uh, it’s super great to have you on the show, André. Thanks for being here.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 02:31
Well, I appreciate the opportunity, Mark, uh, having this conversation.
MARK WRIGHT 02:35
Well, so I’ve been binging your podcast, The Impulsive Thinker, um, and it’s really fantastic. I’ve learned a ton. So, for those who don’t know, André, you started a podcast dedicated to helping high-achieving entrepreneurs with ADHD because you have ADHD and you’re an entrepreneur. So let’s start at the beginning, André. What, when did you first suspect you had ADHD? And, and also, we gotta cover just, you know, what is ADHD?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 03:00
Well, well, well, I guess, we’ll, we’ll start off ADHD is otherwise known as attention deficit hyperactivity, uh, disorder, uh, which is misunderstood as people being inattentive heart to focus and, you know, physically hyperactive and being distractible to other people, and it’s the one medical or mental health condition that is diagnosed because it bothers other people. Um, while the other mental health issues, it’s all cause it’s affecting you, but, ADHD is diagnosed cause it affects other people, and then how do you fit into the greater mold of things? And in the end, it’s just, it’s a different brain wiring. Um, so to other people we have a hard time, it looks like, that we’re having a hard time keeping, maintaining attention, hard time focusing, can’t sit still, and um, and there’s another one that slips my mind cause that, oh, executive functioning dysfunction. Um, so a lot of our planning abil, our ability to set goals, plan and short-term working memory are highly affected, and that’s misunderstood as, um, in attention, lack of focus. Um, and to simplify breakdown, it’s a different nervous system. ADHD brain thrives on interest, challenge, novelty, and urgency. If I have none of those four, it’s very hard for me to focus. And the way I explain is I have to focus, to focus but if having one of those four, it’s easier to get motivated and doing it, and if I have all four, my God, off we go. So, when they say, he’s like, our short-term memory is pretty poor. So, he says, you know what? I did forget. I don’t remember at all, and people just think you’re lazy, you’re stupid, and you can’t think of things. So that, to me, that’s the simplified version or another analogy is ADHD is a farm, is a hunter. Well, everyone else is a farmer.
MARK WRIGHT 04:57
So, well, if you think about, you know, back, back in our history, our evolutionary history, those, um, those traits that you just listed would’ve been really good traits on the plains of Africa where our ancestors evolved, right? I mean, responding to, to threats, um, creativity, uh, all that stuff.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 05:12
Right. Well, well here’s, and let’s go with that analogy of the Safari or the Savanna, whatever you wanna call it. I’m always scanning the environment. I’m always looking around. So, when I’m hunting, or in the old days, it’d be, I’m always looking for something that doesn’t fit right, cause there’s an unknown threat. Well, today that’s known as inattention. You’re not paying attention to what’s actually going on here but I’m scanning for a potential threat. When that grass twitches, I lock into that grass and go, hey, is there a threat? Yes or no? And I gotta make that decision quickly. So now I can’t focus because I’m going from twitch to twitch to twitch. So is that a problem back then? No. When you need those skills, that’s why a lot of times in, on the construction site, when nothing’s going well, they like my skills that way. My inattention, quote-unquote, my constantly scanning and putting things together. They like that but once everything’s calm and cool, they don’t want you around because you’re not fitting the mold anymore. So, everything that’s being seen as inattention, not be able to focus, not being able to sit still cause we need to be in motion. Not necessarily, you know, do an exercise all the time, but constantly moving being in in the environment. That’s not how the world is set today. We’re farming, sit down, do your work. It will come with time, right? The big joke is the ADHD farmer will plant the seed and then two days later pick up the seed outta the dirt and see if it’s growing. Not sit there and wait four months later to harvest.
MARK WRIGHT 06:46
André, think back to your childhood. Did you know when you were a kid that, that, that your wiring was different? Or when did that, when did that awareness come about?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 06:54
I have always known I was not like everyone else. Um, I did things uniquely. I knew I saw things uniquely. The experience I had as childhood made me question a lot of things and for me, and then that was understanding how people react and behave and did what they did. Um, but yet I was always told, that’s not the normal way of doing it. You should do it this way, and, and, and along, you know, ended up just kind of went with the flow because there’s less negative attention on me that way. Even though when it came, when push came to shut, I relied on my own instincts to do things the way there’s I that worked for me to solve the problem. In the end, I got the same result. It just wasn’t done the way everyone expected it, or usually it was done too quickly. That threw a lot of people off. Um, and that just got worse. You know, start feeling more of an outlier in the outcast and more and more with time and then even in the engineering world, like the professional world, its traditional tradition is this, and when you come in and disrupt the apple cart, cause you wanna think differently, do things differently, you really get a lot of pushback.
MARK WRIGHT 08:03
Yeah. When you were in school, did you find it hard to study or did you find tricks? Tricks at, at because you were obviously successful at school?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 08:09
Yeah. At 44 I was diagnosed with severe ADHD and my psychiatrist looked at me and said, you should not have graduated university and engineering on time. You shouldn’t have successful businesses. So, I created my own systems and structures without realizing it, and a lot of that had to do was, it wasn’t working for me how you’re recommending so I’m gonna figure out my own way, and I did. I figured out how, I learned, how I learned, and, and then if I was very interested, it was easy for me to get into hyperfocus mode and become an expert very quickly. Um, and the other thing too is also doing things without being seen. If you’re told this is not the hell way you’re doing it, I would do it away. I or I would just do it anyways. So, I got a lot of trouble because I wasn’t following the rules. It’s not that I was disruptive to be a distraction, cause I was just being rebellious. It was, I knew this is the way I do it best and I’m gonna get the results, I’m gonna get the marks, so why am I getting in trouble for doing it and get the same results.
MARK WRIGHT 09:12
Yeah. Um, I think I’m gonna title this podcast working with ADHD because that’s literally what you’ve done for years and, and now what I think is so cool, you’ve dedicated yourself to helping other people in the same boat. Why was it important for you to start the Impulsive Thinker Podcast André?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 09:31
Well, the other, the other, uh, misunderstanding with ADHD is one was you grew out of it. So as an adult, you don’t have it. It was a kid’s problem. It was a kid’s problem. Um, and if you did well in school, you didn’t have it. Um, so if you were gifted, like I was discovered, I was identified gifted, my kids are gifted. That comes with its own sets of challenges because your emotional maturity is lag, is actually your actual age. While your intellectual, intellectual maturity is three, four years in advance and your brain knows the difference. So, there you get the emotional dysregulation, which emotional dysregulation is also a symptom of ADHD. Um, which is not completely medically uh, accepted, but it’s well known that it is.
MARK WRIGHT 10:19
And that means essentially not being able to control emotions at the appropriate times or what?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 10:24
Yeah. Cause the ADHD brain feels emotions intensely. So, a thousand times, 2000 times more than the neurotypical. Um, and they come fast. It’s like a Coke bottle. You shake the coke bottle, crack the lid, it explodes. What happens two seconds later goes away because that has a lot to do with, uh, your prefrontal cortex. That’s your filter. So, when I’m accusing you, you don’t have a filter. It’s right. I don’t, the impulsivity makes me spit it out or gets the emotion reaction out immediately. Then my brain catches up saying, you know what? That was actually not a big deal but I already reacted. So that’s where that difference kind of, you know, we get that impulsive, intense reaction. We need to react now and then, oh crap, that wasn’t a big deal. But at the time our brain saw it as a threat, ight? Just like that, that hunter analogy immediately reacting to a threat fight or flight is kind of like the scenario. Um, the question, oh, doing well in school, can’t have it. Um, also raised in an era where it was an embarrassment to be, uh, having a kid in therapy or being identified as special or different. Um, and then in high school I got quite lucky. I got around the, the right group of people to study who’ve actually kept me on track, and then getting into university, I really didn’t, I figured out how I do things and learn, and I stuck to that and I was around the right group of people that pushed me and were achievers, so that helped. Um, then got into my own, uh, the first engineering company I worked for, my only job, um, that supported my undiagnosed ADHD because I was able to do what I wanted. They wanted to grow the place. They just let me run. They, they gave me the end result and I just ran, and then once we got to that success and then now we’re stable, that’s when I started getting into trouble. That’s when they didn’t want me around as much. That’s when I was blowing up and then decided I’ll start my own company.
MARK WRIGHT 12:26
You were a structural engineer, right? Is that your expertise? So buildings and stuff like that?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 12:30
Uh, buildings, but that’s kind of boring. So, I went into other different things like uh, work equipment, fall protection most, but most engineers says, can’t be done. I did, um, make making decisions and uh, playing with the gray area, the regulations, so once I got to my own company with the team, then my executive functioning got challenged more trying, you know, becoming a manager and I’m not a manager. Um, got into a bad partnership cause I got bored. Undiagnosed ADHD, when you’re bored you create fire so you can have that urgency and no novelty. Um, so I had that bad, um, partnership. Um, did not want know what to do with light things. We’re having kids really screwed me up because they really, the ADHD brain really needs structure. So, I would go head down, butt up, I know, uh, during the day, 12, 14, 6 an hour days, go home, I can relax. No one was around except my wife. We’d be able to just relax, calm down, do a couple things, go to bed, and that was the routine. A nice routine of calm down but then you got kids, you get home, they’re happy to see you. They’re bouncing all over. I was never gonna be able to get that transition time. So, to regroup my emotional regulation bucket that got in the way. So that was more taxing in the executive functioning skills, and that just built up, built up, and then what I call into my life tempest, where it really got bad, where my undiagnosed ADHD symptoms took over and ruled for a year and a half. So, I’m still surprised. I’m married. I’m still surprised. I’ve got teams that follow me into the new company. Um, I was. You know, that was, I was out my control and I finally said, I need to get help, and then that’s when the ADHD diagnosis came out, and so I did a lot of research, um, went through the grieving process. Oh great. I got a name. Oh crap, that sucks. Um, feeling really sad, really blue. Then she was like, I accept it and go. So I researched it. I’m a fact-finder learner. So, I dove deep. I think I read it probably about 14, 15 books in three months about ADHD textbooks too, and just realized how simplified it was and looked at it differently. Um, so I looked for a community and the high-achieving ADHD entrepreneurs. We have a motivation, we have a drive. While a lot of other people, the groups I was trying to get into, they didn’t have a drive, they didn’t have motivation, and it was like, I feel bad saying this, but it was almost like it was a pity party and that wasn’t me. Um, so I would try to find research for the high achieving, and there weren’t enough. There wasn’t a lot of research. It was just, it’s relatively new that high achievers can’t have ADHD and the challenges they have is quite unique compared to everyone else, and that’s why, that’s the long version of why I started the podcast. To talk to other ADHD entrepreneurs, to share their story, their experiences, bring on smart people about how they can improve businesses or about ADHD. So, everyone can just get that understanding but just like we were talking about offline, how people, once they hear it, they’re like, oh my God, that’s me. There’s not a, oh, I’m kind of wondering if it is depending situation. It’s just like it hits you. It’s like, oh my God, you’re speaking my language. Oh my God. You get it, and I’m getting a lot of feedback along those lines, and I just want people to be heard and we’re, there’s a group, I get you. I understand you.
MARK WRIGHT 15:50
That’s so cool, André, and, and, uh, I wanna back up just a little bit because I heard you say when you were undiagnosed for the first 20 years of your career as a structural engineer. Your solution to dealing with ADHD is that you just buried yourself in work and you say that that felt really good for the ADHD brain. Explain that if you would.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 16:12
Well, the, my one therapist actually told me what you did is I hyper, you hyperfocused on your career, and that’s what I did. That’s all I did, and it was a hyperfocus. Um, so I’ll give you a couple of examples. So, for me, I kept up the urgency by doing long days, and I always set up appointments very early in the morning in Toronto, which is an hour and a half or three hours, depending on traffic in the morning but I want to be there before the traffic. So that means no matter what time I woke up, I was always late. So, there’s an urgency I had to, it would get me up quick and going, so my days were always urgent, double booked, back, booked. Not enough time to go to the bathroom, not enough time to get to the next site but that urgency just kept me rapid fire and keeping on top of things, and then the other negative thing that people don’t realize, I figured out lately, I probably spent three when I was doing those 12, 14 hour days, four to five hours of that day was spent making sure I was on top of all my files, all the bookings, all the, the pro, pro, pro, uh, project files. So, nothing would be forgotten. So that’s part of the EHT is trying to keep on top of that, all that stuff without forgetting, because everyone else seems to have no problems with a lot of my day was spent overcoming my executive functioning.
MARK WRIGHT 17:35
Yeah, definitely, and you felt like you, you felt like, okay, I’m working really hard. I’m providing for my family, I’m creating a future, and at, at, at the same time, the dichotomy is that you were, you were ignoring this thing that was causing you to just go all in and, and just kind of focus only on work, right?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 16:55
Well, here’s the other thing too, was when you’re raising, you’re surrounded by people that says you just don’t know what you’re doing. You’re not doing it the right way. You know what? I believe him, I’m screwed up. I’m broken. So I’m doing everything with guilt and shame. I’m, I have to do this extra four hours, like, uh, uh, come in two hours before everyone shows up so there’s no distraction. I can do my real money work, and then I get distracted all day with everyone else’s questions, and that’s where I’m trying to keep on top of things, and then when everyone leaves for the day, you stay another 2, 3, 4, 5 hours to catch up on any, you couldn’t get on the day. You feel pretty crappy. You start to believe you suck, right? But now that I know it’s my brain, that’s not work. It’s not, it’s not that it’s not working, it’s just the way it works is not the way society is set up and expects, and now what’s wrong? And what I was creating was scaffolding and systems. So, my boss was very happy that all the work orders were, were organized because I had this certain way things would go so that we knew everything would be invoiced properly on time, but they’re all physical movements. So, I was coming up with those systems so we wouldn’t have to keep wasting time figuring everything out. So do a little bit here. Do a little bit there as a pro project was going rather than leave it at the end. So little tricks like that. It was actually me compensating for those challenges like a log book. I have a log book with me all the time so I don’t have to remember. So, if I can write down as quickly as possible, it’s there, it’s logged. I don’t have to keep remembering it, running it over, right? So, the working memory. Um, let’s take, you know, picture a shelf. You got seven marbles, okay? That’s seven items that’s in your mind. So, the, the average person can hold seven to 10. That’s why phone numbers are seven numbers everyone can remember very easily. So, an ADHD brain is actually five, four and five or three to four, and at times I wonder if it’s one to two for me or sometimes one. So when, if I, if I can only hold two things in my head and you gimme a third thing, I gotta try and remember that other marble falls off the edge. Yeah. It’s gone forever. So, people accuse you of not knowing or remembering or you’re stupid.
MARK WRIGHT 20:03
Yeah. Right? I mean, that’s, that’s, there’s so much judgment, right? Come on, André. André, what’s, what’s going on? You dropped the ball on that.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 20:10
Right, and distraction’s a big one. So, my youngest daughter just diagnosed, she’s inattentive. Go upstairs and go brush her teeth. Then she’ll go in her room. You know what she forgets why she’s there? So, she’ll, well, there’s a toy. I’ll play with the toy, and I was like, oh no, you’re, you’re ignoring me you’re a bad girl, right? Oh, I’m gonna be honest. We were accusing that at, at a young age, like I was a father while I was, I was undiagnosed too. So, but then it’s just, she can’t, and you know what, and one night she cried, and she cried in, in front of me. She says, I know I get distracted, but I don’t know why and I don’t know how to fix it. So, when we used to say, go, okay, go upstairs, clean your bedroom, brush your teeth, do a shower, come back down, do the dishwasher, boom. You know, after the, with her was one, we can only tell her go upstairs, do the one thing and come back, right? Now we’ve got success because after the first one, you know, if you rhyme off three things, the first two things are not in her mind. She’s not gonna remember it. She only remembers the last thing.
MARK WRIGHT 21:07
When you were diagnosed, uh, André, finally, what was the treatment? Because I know there, there’s really a range of treatment, right? In terms of, you know, no medication all the way to some really amazing medications that work.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 21:20
Well, what they say is the treatment’s three things. Education is your primary one, educate yourself about ADHD. Treatment, that be it therapy or coaching or counseling, and three is medication. So, medication, I don’t care what anyone says in anything. Medication is not a fix. Even for diabetes is not a fix that I have or anything else. Well, a lot of people use that as a crutch. Um, but medication’s part of it, uh, for me it doesn’t seem to work. Um, but for some people it does work. Um, and in, in a way the medication in, in my mind, it’s, it’s a way to normalize you to do what normally is accepted for everyone. So as kids, you know what the school system’s set up, that they have to follow the rules. So, the medication, that case makes it easier for them to follow the rules because they’re able to focus and, and their brain slows down is really, that’s the other thing with ADHD, your mind goes at 200 miles an hour and doesn’t stop. So when I try to go to bed, I try to calm it down a little bit so I can sleep cause a lot of us have issues with sleep. Um, and the counseling treatment. If you’re gonna get therapy, everyone says, oh no, you’re treated as a mental health condition is, and I agree it’s not a mental health condition, but you need therapy to get over all those years or decades of the negative energy you absorb that you’re, you’re not broken, you’re not stupid, you just do things differently. You know what, dude, you’re just awesome. How can we deal with this trauma from the past? And you can look at it differently cause there’s someone in there protecting you every time you get this threat and you gotta deal with that, and the education part is huge. It’s just learn about it. Um, and what is ADHD and what it isn’t. Um, unfortunately a lot of the coaching out there is still about how you can fit into the mold. Um, and for some people that’s what they want to do, and I got full respect for that. Whatever you want out of it. Get it. Um, and for me it’s how can I do this and still compromise with everyone else that I can still work the way I work, but at the same time respect other people’s way they do work and just understand each other in each other’s uniqueness, right. My engineering company, I got two roles, vision, and when shit hits the fan, that’s when I come in. When things are going well, you don’t want me to go in there because I, I’ll mess it up. I’ll find a new way of doing it and everyone’s like, oh no. Okay. Get out. Get out. Right. So, I hope that answered it. Cause sometimes I go off to the.
MARK WRIGHT 23:46
No, you don’t. So, you don’t take medication now, is that right?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 23:49
No.
MARK WRIGHT 23:50
Yeah. So. So what’s the biggest thing that helped you in terms of after the diagnosis, what’s the biggest single thing that helped you manage ADHD?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 23:59
Well, once I got a clarity and understanding what the strategies I did create and what reasons they were for, I refined them and I followed them. Um, and I’m creating new ones as I go, and then the more I talk to other entrepreneurs, um, my system does not work for you Mark. Part of it might, and that’s what a lot of the coaches and the tools are out there, even for the, uh, neurotypical people. All these systems out there don’t work for everyone. You know, take what works for you and then, you know, throw out the rest. So, what, what ha works for me, part of it might work for you, but I work with you so I can understand your unique abilities, your unique strengths, what you’re good at, what you don’t like to do, and how you’re like, everyone’s ADHD is unique, right? They say if you meet with one person with ADHD, you’ve met that person with that you’ve only met one person with that ADHD, right? And sorry, I’m not saying you have it, I’m just since I’m looking at you, it’s you.
MARK WRIGHT 24:59
Well, we’ll, we’ll cross that bridge in just a second. Ha-ha-ha
ANDRÉ BRISSON 25:02
So, you know, and that’s where the thing is. The problem is everything is just set for a generic, uh, generic way of doing it. If you don’t do it the generic way, then you fail but no, I work with people. So, I understand your unique ADHD, your unique challenges. Like maybe your executive functions better than mine, your memory could be better than mine. Um, my ability to plan is be, could be better than you, but so how can we come up with scaffolding or systems to make that happen? And one thing is, the other thing too is ADHD is we’re blind to time. When I read that, I didn’t have to read more, I just, bam, I knew it. Either it’s now or not now. We got two timeframes. Now or not now. Future doesn’t mean anything. Two weeks from now, that’s an eternity. So that’s why sometimes it’s like, oh crap, that’s due tomorrow I forgot about it because we’re blind to time. So, then we get, hey, the brain goes, hey dude, now we’re on fire. Now it’s urgent. Now this get challenged to get it done on time and we hyperfocus and we can get it done,
MARK WRIGHT 26:02
and your brain’s like, woohoo, here we go.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 26:04
Woohoo. It’s firing on all cylinders, and, and then the other thing too is the other part of timeline, this is sometimes I think a two-day job is actually could be done in four hours. That’s where we get, also get in trouble. It takes a lot longer than we think. So, we got that challenge. So how do we make it real? Like I got, we gotta make things visible so I don’t forget.
MARK WRIGHT 26:27
Yeah. So, so what I’m hearing you say, André, is that you’ve found ways to understand who you are and what you do, and also structure your life in a way that, that brings that awareness of, of your ADHD to the front so that you’ve organized your life in a way that makes your life, uh, as smooth as possible, right?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 26:48
Correct. Yeah. We’re managing, quote unquote, the symptoms we’re ma we’re, we’re managing, uh, the brain’s abilities. Yeah. Uh, to do what it can and can’t do, right? My, my, it’s not that I failed. I can’t keep track of time. It’s just my brain’s not wired that way, and when, when I start to say, hey, my brain’s not that it’s my brain, it’s not me, it’s not a moral failure. You know I ha I’ve been trying for 40 years. I can’t do it. It’s my brain. Like, you know how freeing that is. Yeah, and when someone says, dude makes sense, don’t stop doing it. Let’s figure another way to stay on top. You know, with and being an entrepreneur, we, we can hire people. My schedule, you know, trying to reduce waste to mess up my schedule and be overbooked. Now I just don’t deal with it. I gain permission if I can talk to people, right? These kind of sim systems helps you and you just gotta trust other people to do it, right? I’m really great at getting the project. I’m really great at finding the solution to it to get it done but the paperwork, the drawings, the report, oh my God. I got team pe, me and members. I just love to do that. They love new buildings. That’s a two-year project. Wow, more than three weeks man, I have a hard time staying involved, right?
MARK WRIGHT 28:01
Well, when we met, um, a few weeks ago and we had a really great conversation, I asked you the question that you get often asked, and that is how do you know if you have ADHD? And because when we were talking, I was thinking, wow, this what you’re saying, right. Really kind of describes some of the struggles that I’ve had in my life, and you were kind enough, and we’ll put this in the show notes. Um, you, you sent me a, a page of, uh, of your episodes and I went through and listened to all of them and it, it was just fantastic but boy, André, it was such an eye-opening experience for me because, uh, my next step is to get evaluated because I was that kid at the dinner table when I was little. I couldn’t sit down. I stood up next to my chair and I would hum, and I would eat my dinner, and so, talk about distracting people. That was me.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 28:51
Well, you’re supposed to sit there and shut your mouth, and right?
MARK WRIGHT 28:55
And, and then, you know, uh, reading, reading has been super difficult for me. I’ve, I’ve never finished a print book in my life cover to cover. It’s audio books I can listen to all day long and podcasts and things like that but you know, the fact that I struggled with reading my whole life was a big one. Uh, you know, emotional, uh, control, you know. All that stuff. Just, just check, check, check, check. So, when people come to you and, you know, they ask that question, you know, hey man, I, I, I may have this. You know, what, what do you tell those people?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 29:27
Um, well, like I told you, listen to podcasts, read some books. Uh, the one book I do recommend is called, uh, I’m not S. I’m not lazy, stupid or, uh, something like that. Oh my God, I forget, uh, I’m not crazy, stupid or lazy. Something along those lines by two women, and I read that book from end to end, and it was just like, I read the book thinking, well, I’ll just backtrack a little bit. When I decided I did some research before the Life Tempest that something was right, like I’m, I’m, I’m succeed. I’m doing everything, but I’m still not happy. I’m, there’s still not one little thing. I kind of say it’s like a puzzle piece and a bridge. There’s just one little puzzle piece missing to make it a solid bridge, and right now, what is that? And that was my ADHD diagnosis. So, I researched a little bit, and I didn’t believe it. How can one diagnosis explain my whole 44 years of my life, right? I didn’t believe it. Um, so when I was, when the psychiatrist told me to read that book, I read to, I was still trying to disprove his ADHD. I believed I was a bad person. I was no good. I would be something worse, and when I read that book at the end, I’m trying hard to disprove that I have ADHD. It was like me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Oh my God. Me, oh my God. Crying me because it wasn’t like, oh, you know, in certain circumstance or whatever it was, either it was a yes or a no, and that’s when I start to realize there’s something here, and the more I talk to people I’m hearing from the podcast, he goes, this is me you’re talking about. There was nothing, you know, it’s just, sometimes it’s me and sometimes it’s not, and with my experience talking to people in no way, and I’m, I can diagnose people, I’m not a medical professional, but just my interactions with people, it’s if they say, well, you know, at times it’s this, it’s dependent on that. That’s not ADHD because the one thing you do say in the literature is like depression, anxiety, bipolar, border, borderline personality disorders all have similar symptoms of ADHD but if you don’t, if you treat those other conditions, those symptoms are gone. ADHD are always there no matter what. That’s why they look for, like, as an adult, it’d be they’re gonna look at your work, uh, environment. They’re gonna work at your home environment. So, it’s gotta be consistent. It’s not, you know, if it’s only at home, but not at school or work, maybe not. It has to be at both.
MARK WRIGHT 31:57
Yeah. And, um, what’s the term? Was there, what’s the term that I’ve heard the term used? Is it called emotional dysregulation or what’s it called?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 32:05
Um, I guess if the condition would be emotional dysregulation or, you know, it’s basically emotional, a lack of emotional regulation.
MARK WRIGHT 32:14
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, when you think about if someone has that and they blow up at someone, um, there’s a, there’s a lot of more, there’s a moral judgment there, and it’s like, oh, André’s just a jerk, and it’s like, wow you know, maybe André’s not a jerk. Maybe he has a brain that, that has a hard time keeping emotions in check and triggers a lot of baggage, right?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 32:36
Right a lot of baggage that a lot of ch, uh, not challenges a lot of, uh, what do you call it? Guessing on you. Uh, assumptions.
MARK WRIGHT 32:44
Speculation. Yeah. Assumption
ANDRÉ BRISSON 32:45
Speculation. Um, and the thing is, ADHD is triggered. So, when you get into emotional dysregulation, lack of focus, inattention, there’s a trigger somewhere. Um, and I was at a conference for medical doctors. Like I, I’m loving this stuff so much, I’m going to medical conferences to learn right from the researchers, but they say the other conditions, and even I have one guy on my podcast talk about his depression. Like depression the mood chooses you. You don’t choose if you’re gonna be depressed or not. It just decides nothing happens but with ADHD, if I’m gonna blow off my no, start getting upset and get the emotional dysregulation, something triggered it. So, they seem like bipolar. That’s not, nothing’s triggered. It just the condition causes the man, it causes the depressive but in ADHD, it’s always triggered, and that’s why for me, triggers is a huge thing. Um, I always look for the trigger cause I can take care of 10 or 12 symptoms. So, I even go so far as what’s the trigger for me, for being inattentive, for me being distracted, for me distracting other people, right? Cause I’m bored when I get bored my impulsity just like, I’m fine, whatever reason not to do something because I’m avoiding something. So, a lot of times you’re, you’re triggered. So, either it’s a trauma trigger or something’s not right, or if you’re overwhelmed, we get overwhelmed easy, and then one person decides to put, uh, another task on you that you weren’t expecting. Like, we like change as long as it’s the change we want. Um, then that just adds to it. Like, my youngest actually came the other day and she’s like, every day I’m holding back, being frustrated with people. Then I go home and then I explode. I don’t understand, and then what I read an analogy somewhere is everyone has a pale, and that’s your emotional regulation pale. So, the kids go to school, they’re forced to do stuff. They don’t want to, they’re not supposed to be mean to people. So, their frustration, that emotional bucket’s getting full and when they get home, it’s overflowing and that’s when the explosion, the bucket’s dropped because the hole’s not big enough or they don’t have the skillset to, to have that hole big enough or to drain off as you go during the day, and we get that sometimes, and you know, I think it’s also a limited, I, I don’t know if for it got a li less mental energy or the same as everyone else, or we just burn through it quicker when we’re not doing what we like to do but I really feel when I go home is I’m mentally burnt out, and then I get to go home and I got the family task and then their e negative energy, and then you just, it’s hard to manage it cause you got that overwhelm, and uh, so the transition times is, it’s an important thing like I used to have before kids. Go home, relax, have 15, 20 minutes and now there’s a rule when I got home, just leave me alone for about 15 minutes. So, I can go change, read a few things just so I can get outta work into home mo mo, uh, mode and get that transition. Even the point that the kids are starting to realize they need that but we communicate it. That’s, so by you being educated about ADHD and understanding you’re in ADHD is now you got a, a, a vocabulary, you’re able to communicate, hey, you know what, sorry but that triggers me and it frustrates me, and I tell my people, like, if you walk in the office and I don’t say hi, don’t take offense to that because that means I’m hyper-focusing and I know if I stop to say hi, I, it’s gonna be another half hour before I can get back into it. So I’m not distracting myself. Um, and I actually did a short on that, but, you know, sorry, like my wife was getting upset. I was in the same bye every morning, but that means my, my head was already at work. So, the stuff like that, and then my kids are actually learning the vocabulary to explain to their friends and their teachers.
MARK WRIGHT 36:39
André, I wanna talk more about ADHD in the workplace because, you know, our podcast BEATS WORKING is dedicated to redeeming work making, you know, the workplace better for everyone, right? So, um, let’s talk first about what’s your best advice to employers? Who may have ADHD employees, and I guess before we get to that, should you tell your boss, um, if you’ve been diagnosed with ADHD, is that something you recommend or does it just depend on the relationship that you have with your boss?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 37:07
That is very, very tough for me to answer because I’ve only had one real job, and I’ve been on my own since 2007. Um, so it’s very tough for me to recommend that because it’s, I think the most, the majority of the problem is it’s misunderstood. Uh, everyone goes on TikTok and then they become the experts on it. Um, and there’s still a lot of misunderstanding that can come into a lot of people still think is, you’re just lazy, you don’t want to try. Um, so it’s, it’s very tough. Depends on if you’re in a corporate world or small company. Like for me, I got a kid here who, uh, and we interviewed him. I had my assumptions, but a month in he felt comfortable to say, come up to me and say, hey, I have anxiety. I’m taking medication cause it, he was nodding on and off in a meeting and it wasn’t, nor like, it didn’t make sense that it was, I didn’t think that was the kid. So, I pulled him aside and said, hey, this was happening and kind of looks bad, and he came to me a few days later and says, you know what, I have anxiety, I change meds, and that was one of the side effects were still coming up, but I’ve got an environment that’s comfortable and safe to come talk about that. So, if you’re in an environment that’s not safe, maybe, maybe not, and sometimes depending what part of the world you are, even maybe talking to a lawyer, it might be, um, beneficial because if they start discriminating against you on it, um, then you might have a case but it’s just misunderstood because the thing is, Mark, if if you’re, if you’re de, if I’m depressed, I can explain to you what depression feels like, you get that, that the other person can understand anxiety, they can understand depression, but no one can understand what the, a ADHD brain is going and doing. Like how can I explain to make you understand and feel that I like that idea or I forgot everything cause I’m a short-term working memory or just being inattentive. Like if something distracts me from our conversation and it holds me a little too long. What were we talking about the last 20 minutes? No one can feel it. That’s why when people are saying, ah, that’s me, that’s me, that’s me, that’s me. They get it, and we can’t explain that for other people to be completely aware or haven’t. I think a lot of people want to feel like, feel your pain. Um, but we can’t explain it enough with the ADHD because my, my, my young, my oldest daughter quite a few years ago was explaining to my wife who’s neurotypical, like she was getting in trouble at school and she was trying to explain to my wife, and wife was, I don’t understand what you’re talking about. That’s not a problem. So, I decided I’d pull my daughter over. I put when the shop started explaining stuff and what she was trying to explain was the impulsivity. So, I said, okay, stop explaining. So, I bet you a bunch of listeners, you may, if you go, holy crap, you know, it might be a sign but it was like, okay, so in your head you went, hey, it’d be funny put my no finger up that person’s nose and then crap, my fingers in her nose, and my daughter goes, exactly. I said, yep, that’s the impulsivity. There’s no in-between. The impulsivity is just go, there’s no filter to say, Hey, maybe that’s not a good idea. Maybe you should hold back. It’s just boom. Ah man, that’s not right.
MARK WRIGHT 40:21
Yeah. So, man, as you’re talking, you know, I’m just having flashbacks. You know, when I was in school, I just can’t even count the number of times that a teacher would say, Mr. Wright, Mr. Wright, Mr. Wright, and I was on Mars. I’m looking out the window, and I am like a million miles away, and then I would come back. Oh, huh. Are you with us? And I was like, oh. Oh, sorry., and what’s so sad about all this stuff, André, is that when these behaviors exhibit. When, when, you know, people notice these behaviors, there’s almost always a judgment If I’m talking to you and you don’t pay attention to me, I translate that to mean, and you’re disrespecting me, and you don’t care about what I’m saying when
ANDRÉ BRISSON 41:06
That’s, that’s how we were raised.
MARK WRIGHT 41:08
Right, right, right. So, all of these behaviors usually have some sort of judgment. If we’re talk, if our wife’s talking to us, husband, spouse, whatever, and, and then 10, you know, half a minute in, oh, uh, what was it? What were you saying? They’re like, this is important. Why aren’t you listening to me? And I’m like, I, you know, it really puts us back on our heels, and, and I think it must have been a really freeing thing for you to finally understand that this is a medical diagnosis and it’s, it’s how your brain works.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 41:37
Yeah, and, and it’s neurological. It’s not like it was, it’s broken. It’s just the way it’s wiring. It’s just the wiring.
MARK WRIGHT 41:44
I feel like we just need to just get that message out and thank God you’re doing your podcast, but get that message out that before we jump to judgment, maybe take a step back.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 41:52
Well, don’t get me started on that.
MARK WRIGHT 41:54
You know, just take a step back like you did with your, with your worker, your employee. Instead of just judging him, hey, man, you said, hey, I noticed this. What’s going on? And, and it led you down a really positive path.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 42:08
That’s because I respect other people’s uniqueness. Everyone’s got a unique way of doing things, their own strengths to do things. It’s great that these people, my, these people, sorry, my, my team here, they love to do the stuff I hate to do, and I respect that, and I let them do it their way. Why can’t we do it our own way? Why do I have, why do I have to be forced upon to do something in a way that’s gonna make me frustrated or take me 10 times more? Because she like, the answer’s right there. I know it. Let’s get to it, and just to go back, your example there, like you’re, you’re, you’re in Dreamland, right? That is a classic inattentive, ADHS. So ADHD, we’ve got two, we got three kinds. We’ve got your physically hyperactive, you’re, inattentive, which is more in your head, uh, dream, and then combined is a mix of the two. So, what you have there is, that’s a classic example, which I think a lot of people will be like, oh my God, that is me, and cause you’re, it’s just, you’re gone. It’s not that you’re not doing anything. You’re, you’re in your own world. You’re thinking you’re, you’re figuring something out.
MARK WRIGHT 43:08
And it’s usually a pretty cool place,
ANDRÉ BRISSON 43:10
Right. Because where you are right now is boring as hell, right? So why you being the smart-ass kid? Or why you being the bad kid for not paying attention when me as the teacher is making a boring environment for them, right? or the employer or a presenter, right? So, to go back to the work about what the employer can do with the ADHD, um, for me, I’ve been a big advocate. I’ve been fighting this since I was a kid. Let people be who they are, and what I like to do is to find out how people tick, what makes you tick, what makes you happy, what ticks you off, and why does it tick you off? So, I use different assessments here so I understand what their abilities are, how they solve problems, why they solve problems, and what they prefer to spend their time on, and we try to work with that. And like for me, I don’t like following a set path or like bureaucracies drive me nuts. You gimme a list of 20 or procedure of 20 steps, I’m probably gonna do it in six or eight because probably the, a bunch of ’em are a waste of time. but if I go do that with my team, I keep changing the way we’re gonna do things and they don’t like that. Once we’ve set a path, leave me alone, and I’ve learned that. So, I stay out once they got a, an idea where they’re going to go. I’m out until they hit a, a road or they hit a wall that they can’t figure out to go around. Now I jump in, they got a new path, they’re happy I leave, and everyone understands each other’s role, and that’s where if you can understand how your ADHD employee works, where they’re gonna be able to keep their attention and their interest feed that, what’s, what are their abilities filling out mundane paperwork is not a preferred brain thing, it’s just, it’s gonna take a long time. So, to focus, the focus takes more energy, and you know, these types of what if they’re not doing well on certain tasks, but maybe they can say, hey, maybe someone else can do it for them and they could take on something from someone else, and, you know, let’s compromise or find, find tasks and rules or roles that fits the person, and I’m now, I’m not just talking about ADHD people, just anyone in general. What, you know, figure these people out. They’re uniqueness and you need a team of unique people to get the overall project done when everyone can have a good time.
MARK WRIGHT 45:38
You mentioned you really love, understand, understanding what makes people tick, and uh, you are well versed in the Kolbe Index, and I think you’re even certified in Kolbe.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 45:48
Yep. Certified since 2014, and I harassed Kathy Kolbe all the time in her masterclass.
MARK WRIGHT 45:54
André, for people who don’t know what that assessment is, talk about Kolbe and why you think that’s important, especially in the workplace.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 46:02
Um, well the one thing is, you know, personality assessments to me is a swear word. Um, and there’s a lot out there, and those assessments, basically you tell it what you think you are, and then you say, oh yeah, that is me cause you believe that’s what you told the rep. The, the, the assessment but what the Kolbe here is what I call a talent and strength assessment. It’s when you, you were born this way or by five years old, this is how you solved problems. Um, this is how you do things. Um, once you have the motivation, so when there’s four action modes, you got your fact finder is how you use and share information. Your follow-through is how you systematize and organize yourself. Three, is quick start is how you assess risk and uncertainty, and then implementer is how you handle tangible and real space. Okay. So, in each of those action modes, there’s three strength areas. You got your initiating, means that’s where you start and you do a lot of, and then you got the middle ones called the co-acting So it’s moderating, it’s kind of like a balancing energy, and then you’ve got your co act, which is it’s another term is resistance. So, what you will do a little bit less, so like, let’s go with the fact finder, initiating a fact finder like me. I want a lot of details and I can sit down and get a lot of details up front. I want a lot first before I go onto my next modes.
MARK WRIGHT 47:25
And these are 1 through 10, right? So, what’s your Kolbe score? The first number?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 47:28
Mine’s an, I’m an 8-2-5-5. So, I’m an eight-fact finder.
MARK WRIGHT 47:31
Okay. So, you need a lot of facts.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 47:33
I, I, I, I need a lot of facts. It’s not like a, it’s, I want, I wish those, that’s a personality thing. These are things I need. So, if I’m gonna go start a project with very little information, it bugs me. I will try and find ways to get that detail. So, the person who’s co-acting on the other end of the scale, they’re just bottom liners. You just give ’em three pieces of information. That’s all they need to get going, and if uh, bo and I can easily bore those people out with too much information, right? Because the way I receive information, I wanna share the same amount too, and then the, the middle one, uh, the co-act, is they’re very good at explaining things, so they summarize, right? So, and if you got that person in the room between a fact finder, initiating fact finder and a co-acting fact finder, they’ll pull out more details from the co-actor for the initiating and they’ll actually ask the initiating to what are the important ones for the other person, right? So, on your follow-through, your initialing follow-through is very systematized. They’ll create systems. Um, if there are none, if they have system, they will follow it to a T. Even if they know there’s three steps in there, they’re repetitive, they will do it because the system says so. Um, and we need people like that because that’s how stuff gets done.
MARK WRIGHT 48:51
Yeah, tell me your story again, André.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 48:53
Pardon me? I’m an 8-2-5-5.
MARK WRIGHT 48:56
8-2-5-5. So, uh, super big fact finder, not, uh, follow-through is not your thing, and, uh, then quick start and implementer, you’re, you’re right in the middle there.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 49:07
Right in the middle. So, with my two follow through, so I co-act. It’s not that I don’t need a lot of system, it’s just that I, I can change paths frequently. I don’t need to follow the same path every time. If I can jump, I can work on multiple things while a fall initiating follow through would prefer to work on one right to the end, or at least get to a point where they can jump off and know where to go back. I mean, it could be whatever, just all over the place. That’s why with my team, once the path is set, I need to get out of the way because I come up every day with a different way doing it quicker. So, we shortcut, we’ll find quicker ways to doing it. It’s not that we don’t wanna do a good job, it’s a good job. It’s just we’re saving time.
MARK WRIGHT 49:47
Boy, I bet once you know people’s Kolbe scores and you’re in a big meeting and you know everybody’s Colby score, it must be just such. Um, you’re operating at such a higher level because you, you know how they think and act. Right?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 50:00
I know how to communicate to them. I’ll know how to manage them. I’ll know how to get information out of them. Um, so like even a, a resistant or a co-acting fact finder, they, they always say, oh, don’t have enough details. I don’t know that much, but I pull out more information to satisfy my fact-finder. I pull it out and they don’t realize it, right? So, for me to go into a planning meeting with my fall through, not a good idea if they need to, to, to organize a really big project. Um, and then with the quick start, you’re initiating quick-start. They’re really risk-averse. They are willing to try and fail, try and fail, try and fail to get that one success. So, the one analogy I like to use is an initiating quick-start can be told 100 times where to go on a cold call, but call 101, they got the sale. Wow. They have a party while someone who’s a co-acting quick-start who wants to manage and reduce chaos, all they’re gonna remember is I was told a hundred times to get one sale. Uh, not fun because they don’t know what’s gonna happen, and then the person in the middle, like for me, my five is, is we’re really good at experimenting and modifying. So, and then with the five is right in the middle and this is what throws people off. I don’t do anything until someone from the other side of four or six or beyond will do something cause I will not do anything until an opposing, like, so if an initiating comes to me towards me, I’m gonna start to balance the energy and kind of maintain chaos a little bit, and if someone who’s a re, a co-acting quick-start shows up, I’ll try and push the, you know, be a little more initiating just so that hey, let’s try different things but I don’t do anything if you’re a four or five, you lean towards one or the other and you kind of do something in the, along those lines, but my five, I won’t do anything. Some people think, oh, you’re quick. Start one day and the other day you’re not like, I don’t understand.
MARK WRIGHT 51:57
Yeah. My scores are, oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 51:59
No. What? No. What is your score?
MARK WRIGHT 52:01
My score is a 6-3-8-3.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 52:03
6-3-8-3. All right. I’ll finish off an implementer. I’ll give you a quick insight about yours. So, the implementer is how you handle tangible in real space. So the, I’ll start with the co-act. That’s the conceptual people who a one to three. They’re really good at figuring things out in their head. They can see things in their head. An imple, an initiating implementer, cannot see things in their head. They need models, they need to touch it. They solve problems by touching and feeling. So, you know, car mechanics, uh, we can someone who’s subsequently say, oh, it’s carburetor because of this, this, this, and the implementing mechanic goes, eh, I’m not too sure but they’ll go and as long as they touch, they go here, they can follow the trail test. This test. That is the carburetor but they have to touch it and feel it, and they’re really good at demonstrating things. So, you know how to use a car, how to use a photocopy. You have them demonstrate cause they’ll physically do it, and for them to learn, let them do it. Let them do the touching cause that’s how they’ll remember, and then the, the co-acting implementer is, we’re right in the middle where we restore. So, for me, in the construction side, I’m really good because I, I’m an interpreter between the theoretical engineers and the hands-on contractors. I can make it real for them. I can make it conceptual for the other guys or the other people, and, and it is a nice balance that way. So, you do things in a certain order, depending on your MO and the four numbers, and this is how you do it, and as long as you do it your way, you’re, it’s gonna be fine. So, for me to say, hey, uh, Mark, here’s three pieces of information. Um, go with the project. You’re going, well, no, I need more information, a little more information to get going. Um, but in actual fact, what’s gonna happen, you’re actually gonna start with your eight quick start. You’re gonna come up with different ideas. You’re gonna see what kind of risk. The other thing too is for you, you’re never gonna do it um, on time, or actually you’re not gonna do any work ahead of time. You’re gonna wait till the last minute. That’s a quick start thing.
MARK WRIGHT 54:09
Yeah, that’s me
ANDRÉ BRISSON 54:10
Because you like quick-start, like the urgency. So that’s, and then you throw the ADHD on top of that and then that amplifies it for one, right? Um, but as the ADHD aside, you’re gonna come up with different ways of doing it. You’re gonna come up with probably 2000 different ways of doing it. Um, and then figure out that a lot of it’s not good. Um, and then go get more information. Now you’re gonna fact find. Okay, and then you’re gonna see if there’s an existing system you can follow. And if you do, then you’re gonna maintain like the six, uh, follow throughs. You maintain systems, so you’re gonna follow it, maybe not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, but you’re gonna maintain it and just get it done and you’re conceptual. So, with your quick start, you’re going be, be doing more conceptual solutions. So, your three is your last one, so you’re gonna conceptually come up with solutions. You don’t have to build a model to prove it or whatnot, and just to go back to the urgency thing. So, if, I know this project will only take you two days, but I know it’s gotta be done in two weeks. Someone who’s a, a co-acting quickstart, I’ll tell them right now, you have two weeks, especially if they’re a long follow through, because they’re gonna plan it out. They’re gonna need the two weeks but for you, I probably won’t tell you till three days before. That’s how I’ll manage you. I’ll sit on it and say, I notice it now, give him the job three days before now it’s gotta be three days. Your MO like your, your mental energy’s gonna go on fire because it suits your MO.
MARK WRIGHT 55:38
And you know, for 35 years I was a journalist in, you know, fact-finding. I, I, I loved learning the why, and so often if someone said, hey, we’re gonna do this, like, this is a new initiative at work we’re gonna do, my first question is, how, how come we’re doing this. I, I need to know what, what’s the motivation for this. Why are we doing this? And, and I would go down that path and once I had enough info, I’m like, okay, I’m in.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 56:02
Or yeah that’s your fact-finding.
MARK WRIGHT 56:03
Yeah. Yeah. That’s why.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 56:04
Yeah, and, and it’s amazing. So, like, if I’m gonna try and force you to slow it down and calm down and come up with all the, minimize your risk that’s going against your grain. That’s, you know, you’re not gonna work to your best self but at the same time too, if you’ve got team members, like most offices have, they’re very big on co-acting quick start. So, you, in a room with co-acting quick start, there’s a polarization there, and people was just saying, you, you know, you’re reckless, you don’t follow the rules, and then you’re disrupting the apple cart. Well, you are, you’re an eight quick-start. So, understanding that, that there’s a difference between, um, you know, not kind of like Now I said you don’t Mark. Don’t brainstorm with this group of people. Brainstorm with this group, and then when you guys got your ideas and you whittled it down, now bring it to that group, right? Or at least say, okay, here goes Mark. He’s gonna use this quick start. We’re just gonna sit back and wait till it’s done. That’s understanding each other and respecting each other, and then when they say, well I don’t think that’s gonna work. You just don’t wanna say, oh, you’re poo pointing on my ideas again. No, that’s a fact-finder thing. That’s a resistant quick-start thing, right? Or like, I’ll tell like my engineering manager, I almost fired him because he couldn’t figure my sketches out. I thought he was dumb. He was an idiot. Now I got his Kolbe, he’s seven implementer. So now when I go to site, I gotta take 200 pictures rather than five, cause I need five. Why do I need the 200 pictures so he can see it from all angles? Cause it’s gonna take him time to make it real. So, I got it dis, that, hey dude, here’s a project. I’m gonna give you time now for you to figure out. Once you made it real and understand it, then we continue the conversation. He’s one of my best employees now. He’s my engineering manager.
MARK WRIGHT 57:52
Yeah. That’s awesome. So that’s such a, such a great way that you’ve taken Kolbe and, and and made it work. Made it work in, in the workplace.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 58:02
Yeah, and then for me, I’m seeing the difference between all the different modes and ADHD. So how it can be amplified or how it actually can cause some, you know, my two follow-through completely supports my impulsivity, but actually amplifies it to be more problematic. My oldest daughter, she’s a seven follow-through. So, in a way it tampers, tampers it down cause she needs to be organized but her ADHD’s trying to push the limits. So, it’s helping her keep a structure. So, I’m seeing all these connections here and by knowing the MO I can help. Structure, help you structure systems to make it work according to your MO and uh, you know, and for one, everyone says ADHD, we have a hard time with motivation. I don’t think it’s a lack of motivation. It’s interest and motivation are two different things, and the print, the Y of U is another assessment tool that I, identifies your two subconscious motivators, and if those are, those two motivators are tickled, you’re in your best self and you shine but if you’re triggered and you’re not working in those motivators, you’re in your shadow self. So, understanding your two unconscious motivators, if we can stay there as much as we can, then you got all the motivation in the world and it makes or break where you, what you should be pursuing cause we do differently.
MARK WRIGHT 59:23
Yeah. What’s that assessment called again?
Uh, the PRINT. The Why of You by the Paul Hertz group. Um, and I’m getting certified on that cause that’s just a, it’s an eyeopener. It’s fantastic, and, um, It’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s a way to try understand your triggers and how to stay out of, be, uh, shadow self. You’re, you’re gonna get into it, but it’s about understanding and being aware of it and how to get out of it as quickly as possible. That’s what I liked about it.
MARK WRIGHT 59:48
Yeah. Well, André, I feel like we could talk for another hour. Um,
ANDRÉ BRISSON 59:52
Are we done now?
MARK WRIGHT 59:54
as we start to wind down? I just have a couple more questions.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 59:57
I’ll try to keep it short.
MARK WRIGHT 59:58
It’s, this has been really fascinating, man. I appreciate it. Um, what’s the biggest thing you hope to change when it comes to how ADHD is perceived and dealt with in the workplace?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 01:00:11
ADHD is just different. Wiring, meaning people do things differently and it’s okay and utilize that strength that they have. How can we utilize the difference that ADHD brings or autism, which I am also on the spectrum or what skills can that person bring and let them be in there? Stop trying to force people to do things they’re not good at or not wired to be, and that’s ADHD, non ADHD. I’m just there. It says, let’s understand each other and value each other’s differences and use those differences to everyone’s benefit. That’s my thing, and if it, those things are being pushed, that really frustrates me and gets me very upset cause it’s wrong to tell people they can’t do things that they’re damn good at.
MARK WRIGHT 01:01:01
So, the podcast is called BEATS WORKING, winning the Game of Work. What do you think the key is to winning the Game of Work?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 01:01:08
Um, winning work is to achieve a goal that you set, and you did it in your own way and you are allowed to do it in your own way and be supported by it and, um, and, um, uh, acknowledged for it.
MARK WRIGHT 01:01:27
Yeah. What part of your work life, André? Never felt like work or career. What, what part? Just felt fun?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 01:01:35
Dealing with customers in the construction site when there’s a problem. Uh, the interaction with people like here right now. Um, and just realizing that my quick thinking is what’s valued out there, even though it doesn’t feel like work, but that’s the value out there, and I make people comfortable and I make everyone acknowledge each other’s, uh, different abilities, and I’m able to explain to people why the electrician is saying what they’re saying to a mechanical person or to a concrete person. It’s not difficult, it’s just their language is different and just getting, I guess it’s a harmonious, just understand each other people and stop yelling at each other.
MARK WRIGHT 01:02:17
You know what I think is fascinating about your life story is that. You are in a massive period of self-discovery right now that, that started a number of years ago, and I, I feel like I’m learning things about myself that I haven’t ever really realized before, and, you know, if you could go back in time and give 20-year-old André one piece of advice, what would that be?
ANDRÉ BRISSON 01:02:43
Just keep doing what you think is right. It’ll work out in the end. It’s not an easy road, but it’ll work out in the end.
MARK WRIGHT 01:02:52
Well, André, it’s been fantastic talking with you, and again, your podcast is, uh, is doing such good in the world. It’s called The Impulsive, it’s on all the platforms, and, uh, man, I’ve learned a ton from it, and I just think the message that you’re getting out into the world to, to redeem work as, as especially, um, I think is just really admirable, and it takes courage and it, it takes tenacity and, uh, I really wanna say thanks for that man.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 01:03:18
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate the acknowledgement and I also like what you guys are doing about changing, you know, work is not a, a four-letter word, it’s not a swear word. I enjoy work, I’ll keep doing it. Um, but just with my new knowledge with the ADHD is take more time for me, um, is also as important. Um, but I gotta keep my juices, my mental game going. If not, I get bored and that’s when I get in trouble.
MARK WRIGHT 01:03:42
Yeah, yeah. Well, this has been fun, André Brisson. Thanks so much, man.
ANDRÉ BRISSON 01:03:46
Thank you very much. Take care everyone.
MARK WRIGHT 01:03:48
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P Family. New episodes drop every Monday, and if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING. Where we are winning the game of work.
