On the show this week, building generational wealth and doing good even when the deck is stacked against you.
Dana Frank and her son Brett Frank-Looney own and operate a real estate investment company in Seattle. Their company, Frank Family Properties, provides affordable housing to hundreds of families – many in the Central District.
It all started when Dana’s father Gerald bought a house near the University of Washington – not an easy feat for a Black man in the 1950s when banks wouldn’t lend money to people of color and redlining prohibited them from living in many parts of Seattle.
Host Mark Wright’s conversation with Dana and Brett covers their family’s inspiring story, which includes picketing banks, growing their empire, and the racism that still exists today. Also included are a wealth of practical tips to successfully run a multi-family rental business.
And we couldn’t leave out Dana’s uncle Quincy Jones or her father’s drumming ability that paired him up with the likes of Duke Ellington, Little Richard, and Ray Charles.
So, here’s to the Frank family and their perseverance in the face of adversity.
Resources from the episode:
- Meet Dana and get to know her here.
- Connect with Dana on LinkedIn.
- Connect with Brett on LinkedIn.
- Learn more about Frank Family Properties here.
- Click here to pre-order a copy of Dana’s book, “Get Up and Get On It! A Black Entrepreneur’s Lessons on Building Legacy and Wealth.”
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Dana Frank, Brett Frank-Looney, and Mark Wright
DANA FRANK 00:00
I’ve got a book coming out in, um, February called “Get Up And Get On It.” And it’s a Black entrepreneurs lessons on creating legacy and wealth. And when I talk about in the “Get Up And Get On It,” the reason is because every morning my father would knock at my door and say, hey, now it’s time to get up and get on it. And this was six o’clock in the morning. And if I rolled in the office at seven, he’d be like half the day’s gone. So that’s, that’s my message is every day, you cannot rest on your laurels. You have to get up and get on it. We drive by our properties daily. We engage with our residents. If we see trash outside, we park the car and get up and pick it up. You know, our presence is, is what makes our relationships work, I think.
MARK WRIGHT 00:43
This is the BEATS WORKING show. We’re on a mission to redeem work, the word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to BEATS WORKING, winning the game of work. On the show this week, building generational wealth and doing good against the odds. Dana Frank and her son, Brett Frank-Looney, own and operate a real estate investment company in Seattle, Washington. Their company, Frank Family Properties, provides affordable housing to hundreds of families, many in the Central District. It all started when Dana’s father, Gerald, bought a house near the University of Washington. Not an easy feat for an African American man in the 1950s, when banks wouldn’t lend money to people of color, and redlining literally prohibited them from living in many parts of Seattle. My conversation with Dana and Brett covers their family’s inspiring story that includes picketing banks, growing their empire, and the racism that still exists today. And we couldn’t leave out Dana’s uncle, Quincy Jones, and her father’s drumming ability that paired him up with the likes of Duke Ellington, Little Richard, and Ray Charles. So, here’s to the Frank family. And their perseverance in the face of adversity. Welcome to BEATS WORKING, Winning the Game of Work on the show this week, we have Dana Frank and Brett Frank Looney, and we’re going to be talking about generational wealth, about real estate and, uh, and about racism in Seattle. And this is, this is going to be such a rich episode, I think, of BEATS WORKING. And it’s so great to have both of you on the podcast. Welcome.
DANA FRANK 02:28
Thank you, Mark. We are so thrilled to be here.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 02:31
Thank you. Absolutely.
DANA FRANK 02:33
Real exciting.
MARK WRIGHT 02:34
So, Dana, let’s, let’s talk a little bit about your family history because I think your family history is really going to set the groundwork for what we talk about during, during this episode. So, your father was a pioneer in a lot of different ways. Take us back in time and tell me about a little bit about your dad. And I definitely want to explore his, his, uh, drumming ability because I’m super impressed with that. But take us back in time and tell us about your dad and how that set the table for everything that exists today.
DANA FRANK 03:05
Absolutely. Uh, my father is somebody I call a fire starter. And I think a lot of times people allow fear, um, to block their future plans and what’s going to happen. And my father in 1950 found himself in Detroit where he was born and raised, and his options were really limited. My, his mother had passed away when he was only 17. And my grandfather said, you know, Gerald, don’t ruffle any feathers. Just you know, go to work at Chrysler, Ford, and, uh, my father looked at that option and was watching his friends go and put in a double shift. And at the end of two weeks, they had barely enough money to put a decent meal on the table. So, he left Detroit and got in his van with his drums and drove all the way across country to Seattle where he enrolled at the University of Washington and he lied about his age and went to work in nightclubs like the black and tan and started playing the drums and met a patron, a regular that was looking to sell a house and daddy was a hustler. I mean, he had absolutely no money, uh, but he would take his van and go downtown and wash the major department store windows and then present the owners with a bill. And they’d say, well, we didn’t hire you, but they’d feel obligated to pay. And so, he looks at this patron that was a regular and he says, I want to buy this house. And the house happened to be in the Montlake area, not too far from the university. So, daddy struck a deal and worked off the down payment, taught his son drum lessons. I was able to buy the house on contract. He rented out rooms to his fellow students at the university and um, that started the trajectory of our future. I mean that one improbable decision is why we’re sitting here today. Um, you know, seven years later.
MARK WRIGHT 04:55
Dana, why Seattle? Why did he, why did he come out to Seattle?
DANA FRANK 04:58
He saw it as just the golden opportunity. I mean, uh, you know, this again was during, uh, segregation and Jim Crow laws were in place. And I mean, his philosophy, when he looked at Lake Washington, he said, they’re not building any more water. And, uh, you could imagine coming out of urban Detroit, um, where options were limited. He just saw it as, um, just a land of opportunity at that time the jazz, uh, life was pumping in Seattle.
MARK WRIGHT 05:27
So, I have to ask you about that. Um, I’m just blown away that he wasn’t just a drummer He was he was a drummer who had enough talent to play with Duke Ellington, Little Richard, Ray Charles, Ike and Tina Turner. These are some of the top music acts in the world and your dad was good enough to play with him. How come he didn’t become a professional drummer and stay with that?
DANA FRANK 05:51
Because I think the competition was fierce and he learned that real estate was a better vehicle to make long term investments and to provide for his family. My parents actually had a nightclub in the 1960s called the Pink Pussycat and it was right down off of 3rd and Yesler and that’s where all those acts performed. I mean, growing up, we’d have Little Richard’s day with our family and little Esther Phillips. And, uh, you know, my father was a remarkable drummer in, uh, Paul DeBarras’s book, “Jackson Street After Hours,” he’s listed as one of the best drummers in town. And that was truly his first love, but, uh, the economics of going into real estate was what drew him there.
MARK WRIGHT 06:33
Brett, I’m sure you’ve heard stories about your grandpa, what, uh, what do you, what lives in you that was in your grandfather?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 06:42
Oh, that’s a great question, Mark. I would say, uh, my grandfather, he, he didn’t take no for an answer. There was always a way to get something done, and that’s where it’s been sold in both my mom, and she’s passed to me. My grandfather passed away when I was just a few years old, but I would say that he always insulted us just to keep driving, to get up and get on it and do something. And every day is an opportunity to make something better for yourself. So don’t, don’t sit back and let it pass by.
MARK WRIGHT 07:09
Yeah, I want to talk about your business education at the Foster School in a little bit, but I’d love to first, uh, Dana, talk a little bit about the, just the landscape back in that day. I mean, we’re talking about an era of redlining where areas of cities in America were determined by you know federal and banking authorities to be risks quote unquote risks um, hence, you know the term red line and it was impossible to get a bank to, to write a loan or to get insurance in these areas, so your dad had literally everything stacked against him when he decided to become a landlord in in this area of Seattle um tell me how that happened and I mean real estate is hard enough if, if, if, you know, you don’t have everything stacked against you. But tell me a little bit about your dad and how he was able to overcome just massive hurdles in that area.
DANA FRANK 08:04
That is such a loaded question. I have so many thoughts that I want to share. Um, first of all, yes, all the properties that my parents ended up investing in were in the red line area. And I always say my childhood was different than most where most of my friends’ parents loaded the station wagon to go to the park and play balls. My father loaded ours with picket signs and I spent, you know, many days picketing banks at the time it was a Seafirst and Rainier bank, and you know, the major banks just, uh, um, the man funding. And the interesting story is that my mother, uh, she was the first African American seafarer queen in 1950. They had a queen represented from every nationality and she was in a, um, uh, beauty contest called Ms. Bronze. And my father was playing the drums and they connected. And I mean, it was just uh, a match made in real estate heaven, and they just got busy. And for 19 years, they purchased a property on every block from 33rd to 10th Avenue in the Central District without any bank funding until black owned Liberty bank gave them their first loan in 1969. So, um, when we talk about the red lighting, my father was just you know, very outspoken. We were raised with neighbors that were very involved. They were like surrogate parents, um, that were involved with core. And, you know, and when they did operation, uh, walk out on, um, open houses where black people, if they heard that they were going to look in areas like Mercer Island, they would cancel all the open houses. And so, my father and Joan Singler, who wrote the book Seattle in Black and White, um, they fought and exposed all of these injustices and literally just changed the landscape of this area.
MARK WRIGHT 09:53
Yeah. Brett, you know, in, in studying business, I mean, I, I don’t think a lot of, you know, Americans today understand just the profound impact that is left by, um, you know, all of this, you know, racism and systemic racism that existed over centuries really prevented families from building generational wealth. And, um, it’s, it’s something that even today, you know, we, we look at that gap that exists today is the result of hundreds of years of injustice from, from your perspective. I just love to hear your perspective on, on that. And as you studied business at the UW, you know, what, what, what were the takeaways for you in terms of, I mean, your family has lived an extraordinary existence in terms of being able to create generational wealth in, in a really challenging environment.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 10:49
Mark, you said it, that’s very well said. Uh, here in the 21st century, we can still trace going back decades in the city of Seattle to these red line areas. And that’s still holding true today, where the opportunities for African American families or families of color are lacking. And there’s been efforts, you know, uh, in, as we, you know, progress to, to change that, but it’s still rooted in our deep sea to history. So, when I look at some of my peers who come from different backgrounds, et cetera, who didn’t have the kind of opportunities that my family had because of the visionary that my grandparents were and continue to be for, for my family. I would say that ultimately it it needs to be better taught in education in schools. I don’t think there was a great, uh, a great lesson on it that often, uh, especially locally. If you look at, you know, the history of your city you grew up in, uh, I was blessed to, you know, understand that from my mom and my grandma and the impact that it’s had today. And the reason that we work so hard and to be able to provide is because of what transpired.
MARK WRIGHT 11:57
So, Dana, let’s talk a little bit more about the company now. So, from one property, give, give me an idea of how the company grew over the years and, uh, and what it looks like today.
DANA FRANK 12:08
Certainly. I always go back, Mark, uh, you know, and, and the saying that I have is that my network is my net worth. And I really learned that from my father early because I looked at people and they go, well, how do I get started? I don’t have the capital, you know, what, what do I do? And, uh, my daughter and I had the pleasure last weekend of attending, um, Damon Johns. Uh, national, um, black entrepreneurs and business day and at the Apollo theater, and I’m in New York and I’m sitting at this historic theater, and they’ve got whoopie Goldberg and centric, the entertainer and iced tea and all of these, this talent on stage talking about their start. And I think that that’s the biggest thing is that people who get over the fear of, you know, making that decision that, you know, they’re not going to let fear rule what was going to happen. And that was the biggest lesson I think I learned from my father was connecting with his network. So, in the seventies, he partnered with a lot of local businesspeople, the gold farms that at the time owned, um, uh, the carpet exchange, the Wilcoxon’s that had a hardware store. And they provided the capital, and my father provided the labor and the maintenance. And then a few years would go down and the property would appreciate. My father would refinance, buy his partners out, and then rinse and repeat. So, you know, that’s really the method, and I’m just like, you know, I call it the real acronym of do your research, expand your network, align with your network, and leverage. And right now, Chase Bank has offered 30 billion to bridge the racial economic divide. And so, I’m like, people have to access at these programs because they’re there. And, um, you know, you just have to demand people vocal, amplify your voice and, um, get over the fear.
MARK WRIGHT 14:00
So today, Brett, what does the company look like in terms of your holdings? And, um, you know, how many, how many people that you have as tenants, uh, give us an idea, paint us a picture of the company today.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 14:12
I am so proud of where we are today, Mark. Uh, I think the, I grew up in this my entire life, you know, from a young age, I watch as, you know, it’s, we’re going to collect rent, deal with maintenance issues, uh, and the service, our tenants. Uh, we have several hundred doors that we managed probably close to 500 tenants collectively that we own, operate, manage ourselves. We have an amazing maintenance team as well who supports us. And, uh, we have been able to service a great group of folks. I know we talked about how Seattle has grown the rapid tech that’s come here and it’s driven rents up with our finite housing is that we need to continue to build more that we’ve been able to offer below market rents that support people. And I would say are my proudest moment, I think my mom would agree uh is when we have renters who live with us like they become family after 20, 30 even 40 years. These families who grew up and were raised with us as well. And I love to see when I have residents who have lived with us for several years, go on and say, hey, I’m going to move out after this next month or two because I put a down payment on our home. That’s what it’s all about for us. I would say that, that we’re so proud to see that that’s what, you know, their dreams can come true, and we can be part of that for them.
MARK WRIGHT 15:26
Yeah. And Dana, the fact that your family has lived, uh, not, not privileged. I mean, you started, your dad started with, with nothing in that neighborhood. Uh, I’m guessing in your mind that makes a difference in terms of your ability to empathize with, with people who are your tenants and, and understand that it’s not just about trying to make as much money as you can, but also to provide uh, housing that’s affordable, right?
DANA FRANK 15:52
So true. It’s a relationship business. And like Brett explained, I mean, these people, I’ve watched people raise their children. Um, you know, I mean, they, they truly do become family and that’s our mission is to provide quality, affordable housing. And, um, you know, I was, I was just so proud because I always say that, you know, raising children. It’s like raising, you know, property, what you put in, you get back. And when Brett graduated from Foster’s, you mentioned him going to the UW, he decided that he needed a break. And, um, he moved to Chicago, and I stood at the gate at the, uh, Delta airline, sobbing, going, have you lost your mind? This was not planned. And it’s just, he spent three cold winters in Chicago and came back. And, uh, Brett really now is, um, he’s just taken over and taken the business even a much higher level than, than I did. And that’s part of the legacy. I mean, when I look at what my father started and I just, my mother and how proud my mother still is at 91, she still gets up and operates with us every day. But, um, that’s, that’s the biggest blessing of what we, what we’re doing.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 17:04
And I’ll add to that really quick. I would say that they’ve given me such a great platform, they allowed me to go get my education, to leave, like she mentioned what to her screen, to return, and the lessons that I learned away, and through my education that I grew up with, that we were able to bounce back and forth with one another. It’s, you know, not perfect every day, but we make it work.
DANA FRANK 17:26
And that’s the other thing, you know, when I looked at, you know, what we were talking about today, BEATS WORKING, I can’t stress enough how fortunate we are every day to get up and work with family. I mean, in my family is everything to me. And it’s like, you work with people that you trust, and you have the same goal. And like Brett said, we knock heads. There are days when I’m just like, we will totally disagree. But you know, that’s, that’s part of the fun. And it’s just, we’re building for a common cause.
MARK WRIGHT 17:51
Brett, I’ve talked with people who say there is a disconnect in business school to the real world and I’d love, as someone who has grown up in the real estate business, um, is there still a disconnect between what’s taught in business school and what you actually need in the outside world?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 18:06
Great question. Yes, is the short answer. Uh, I would say, Mark, that business school gave me a great platform. A lot of great education, how to read a proforma and, you know, some of the accounting and the marketing and the finance, uh, and especially as we grow with tech, the information systems that we use. But you cannot beat the real-world experience of just the face to face hitting the street. My mom said it earlier and I agree completely. This is a relationship business. Uh, I had to focus in marketing because I knew you had to be fun facing with these things that I wanted to get into real estate with. That you cannot get from sitting in a classroom. It takes real hard, you know, learned experience to get that that you do not get from sitting behind a desk.
DANA FRANK 18:54
I love for Brett also to share in addition to running our family portfolio, he’s also working, um, as a commercial broker now.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 19:02
Uh I’m very proud to work with a lot of local, small, independent businesses, especially here in the Central District of Seattle. That has seen the rapid gentrification and the upzoning take place. Uh I work with some amazing landlords who are committed to bringing black businesses back to the Central District that were here for 60 plus years and, uh, have dwindled. Uh, but moreover, the best part about that is not only just to bring them back as tenants, but to provide them opportunities for ownership through, uh, through leasing their businesses out. Um, that will, you know, give them an opportunity to help continue building generational wealth for themselves.
MARK WRIGHT 19:41
So, Brett, I’d love to talk with you a little bit just about the, the nuts and bolts of, of, you know, running a real estate business. Almost every day in my Instagram feed, somebody’s trying to sell me on a real estate investment class. Yeah. I’m, I’m guessing you’ve, you’ve been collecting rent since you were a little kid. Um, Tell, what, I’d love to know from your perspective, what, what’s the key to succeeding in this type of real estate business where you’re owning properties and renting them out? So, what’s the key?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 20:16
For me, I, I have to break, uh, if I’m from a nuts-and-bolts standpoint, I need to break my, my month down into, into 10-day segments. I break it into thirds. You know, I know the first 10 days of the month is focused on rent collection and usually by the 10th of the month, 20 days’ notice is what people give notice, either they’re moving in or moving out somewhere. So, the next 10 days is, is looking at, okay, where, how are we planning for the next month ahead? And you know, do I need to turn this unit? Have I listed it properly? What kind of maintenance needs to go in to, to, to flip it and turn it to get it ready for the next perspective renter. Uh, the nuts and bolts, it requires a lot of forward thinking. I’m planning 30 to 45 days ahead knowing, you know, and that’s where the communication comes in with my tenant profile to say, hey folks, I’ve got this coming. I’ve got a one-bedroom, two-bedroom, three-bedroom, et cetera, how I can help them. And, you know, other perspective renters plan ahead. We live in the Seattle market where there’s growing tech people moving here every day that I get calls from folks who say, hey, I’m going to move in 90 days to your city. I’m looking at rent. Well, my, my vacancy list changes every month. So, work with me and I’ll work with you. You know, best service each other so that we’re not sitting on, on vacant units as well.
MARK WRIGHT 21:33
Yeah. Um, Dana, I’d love to ask you about the pandemic. And, um, I think, you know, I was working as a journalist, uh, during the pandemic in television, and I think one of the most challenging stories was when the city instituted, you know, the eviction moratorium. And it really made me, it really made me feel for people who were landlords at the time and tenants because some people lost their jobs, they had no income, but then by the same token, some people started to take advantage of the eviction moratorium. So essentially you couldn’t kick someone out for not paying rent. What was the pandemic like for, for you and your company at that time?
DANA FRANK 22:11
I call them bad actors, the ones that just truly came and just tried to, you know, it was Christmas for criminals, in my opinion. And unfortunately, the laws were really in the resident’s favor. And we just, our, our approach was we dealt with each of our residents and, and as we said before, relationship business. So, we’ve dealt with them each on a case-by-case situation. If someone came to us and said, hey, I lost my job. We’re like, hey, you want to come to work? You know, we can, you know, there’s different areas where you can contribute. Um, and it just was a matter of being fair and reasonable. Um, we saw so many, uh, friends because of course we’ve got a lot of other housing providers that are friends that went bankrupt. They lost their homes. I mean, there are people even now, I have a one friend who’s had someone move into his home and he’s living in a van. And this guy has not paid rent since March. And they went to court two days ago. And the judge says the winter moratorium is in place. So come back and see us in March. So, this guy will live a whole entire year free. And, um, and to add insult to injury, he’s renting out the lower half of the house as an Airbnb. So, he’s making income and it’s just unjust. And that was my biggest frustration is housing providers often get such a bad rap of just being greedy and just, you know, carried a care concerned about the bottom dollar, but that’s just not the case. And, um I said everything. If you go into a restaurant and you eat, you’re supposed to pay. You go to your doctor and get service. You have to pay. I mean, we have to provide, you know, a product where someone lives. How can they say you’re not entitled to your income?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 23:27
Well, piggyback off of that. Uh, as my mom started, we have been in this business for over 70 years in the city of Seattle. We live here, we’re members of the community, we volunteer, we’re very involved. We’re proud to be part of the community and in Seattle. What’s happened, especially that took place during the pandemic and the early days of 2020 is that you did see bad actors on both sides. However, it really impacted these mom-and-pop small businesses that are just trying to provide for themselves. You know, you look at a lot of the institutional landlords, large corporations that were able to weather that storm because of their bank financing, etc. For those of us who are just families doing this, it was a headache and a challenge. My mom said it very well. We took each situation on a case-by-case basis and were able to work through it. Thankfully, but that wasn’t the case for a lot of other folks.
MARK WRIGHT 24:53
What’s the biggest lesson that you’ve learned during those challenging times in terms of how to stay afloat, how to stay successful, how to deal with, with, uh, with renters? What was, do you guys have a, like a big takeaway that might be transferable to other smaller landlords?
DANA FRANK 25:11
Mine would just be to stay diligent, communicate. You know, don’t just reach out when the rent is late, you know, stay on top of it literally. I mean, I, I, I don’t know if it’s okay to talk about, but I’ve got a book coming out in, um, February called “Get Up And Get On It.” And it’s a Black entrepreneurs lessons on creating legacy and wealth. And when I talk about in the “Get Up And Get On It,” the reason is because every morning my father would knock at my door and say, hey, now it’s time to get up and get on it. And this was six o’clock in the morning. And if I rolled in the office at seven, he’d be like half the day’s gone. So that’s, that’s my message is every day you cannot rest on your laurels. You have to get up and get on it. We drive by our properties daily. We engage with our residents. If we see trash outside, we park the car and get up and pick it up. You know, our presence is, is what makes our relationships work, I think.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 26:05
Really well said. I agree. I think my mom said it very well that we, this is a full-time job. We’re not sitting back and just like people, you know, pay us everything. We have, you know, we deal with people every day. We deal with, with issues and banks and everything else that it is a 24/7 gig, you know, not afraid for the calls at two o’clock in the morning when you know, there’s Pat Plumbing. You know, we’ve all been there.
DANA FRANK 26:31
And our, our team is awesome. I mean, we’ve got a maintenance guy that’s been with us for 30 years. I call him my husband from the waist up. He’s first called every morning. I’m like, okay, you’re. I think that that is really, uh, you know, for lack of a better word, you know, don’t be a slum landlord to a housing provider. You know, paint matters. Pick up, let them see that they’re, this is where they live. That you care.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 26:57
Yeah, I agree. I think that that’s something that I try to look at. We mentioned the nuts and bolts earlier, Mark, is that we’re turning a unit or listing it and we go into a place and say, okay, we have to put ourselves in their shoes. We’re going to be living here every day, every night. What, what, what, what would I want to see? How would I want to live as well? To make it feel like home for them.
MARK WRIGHT 27:18
Wow. Let’s talk a little bit more about the book. It comes out in February, right Dana?
DANA FRANK 27:22
Yes. It’s being published by Wiley and um, you know, it’s really just a business memoir and it just talks about what we’re talking about today is how we got started and you know, the legacy of just keeping it going.
MARK WRIGHT 27:35
Yeah. What are some of the takeaways on that legacy of creating generational wealth and what would be some inspiration for people who are hoping to get into the same position at some point?
DANA FRANK 27:47
I think it’s so important as I, as we talked about earlier is just not letting fear, you know, turning your fear and making it fuel and doing your research. Get out. If you want to get into the housing market, get out, do your research, see what’s available, crunch the numbers, and then, you know, find partners. I mean, there are so many people that don’t want the headaches of the management that, that could be potential investment partners. And then, you know, the equity will grow. I always say, you know, you can either be on the sidelines or get in the game, but either way it’s going to happen. And I’ve seen it time and time again.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 28:21
I’ll add some more points to that. I think that’s, uh, I agree with everything you said. I would say that some of that fear that takes place, how do I get started? Uh, we found the best way to just get involved with people in our communities, even just talking to our bankers to go and take them to lunch and have a conversation and say, hey, this is what I’m interested in. Here’s how I plan to do it. What are your thoughts? How can I work to grow? And you’d be surprised what you can learn from a, from a half hour, 45-minute lunch with someone like that. I would also say if you’re already in a position and you’re thinking, how do I, you know, build that generational wealth, et cetera, looking at the third generation where I am right now, you know, when I graduated college, as we mentioned, I left town, you know, there was some, probably some conversations about, okay, well, what’s, what’s really going to happen. And personally, I feel that. I was blessed to be given that platform to go explore and learn on my own, but you have to be prepared to say, okay, how am I going to work this? If my family members don’t want to get involved, you know, what is my, what is my, you know, long term planning look like that goes back to the looking, you know, ahead, you have to be constantly planning.
MARK WRIGHT 29:29
I’d love to talk a little bit, Dana, about, uh, you write a blog with your sister, Tracy. And, uh, I was reading the blog and there’s, there’s a post of you with Taylor Swift’s, Swift’s parents when she was in concert at Seattle. And I’m thinking, um, and we need to talk about the, it’s not like you, you just fell into this. Your uncle is Quincy Jones. One of the most iconic leaders in the music industry ever. Um, but I have to ask you, how did you get backstage with Taylor Swift’s parents in Seattle?
DANA FRANK 30:01
You know, it’s funny cause my uncle had no connection with that one. That actually comes from my husband. I’ve been a long-distance marriage. My husband lives in Nashville and I’m in Seattle and, uh, he’s friends with Taylor Swift’s dad. And so, my son here is a Swiftie. He is the biggest Swiftie.
MARK WRIGHT 30:21
That’s awesome, Brett.
DANA FRANK 30:22
Christmas, my husband got tickets for the concert, and we had no idea that we’d be sitting with Taylor Swift’s mom and dad. And then when we’re sitting in our seats, someone comes over and taps us and they’re like, are you ready for your COVID test? And we’re like, huh? You know, we’re out here in the stadium. What are you talking about? And then they took us backstage. And I got to tell you, it was quite the experience. It was amazing.
MARK WRIGHT 30:46
Wow. Talk about a family business. Uh, she’s not doing too bad, is she?
DANA FRANK 30:50
I mean, her brother was there, mom, dad, they go to every show. I mean, it is truly a family production.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 30:57
And some of the kindest people you will ever meet.
MARK WRIGHT 31:00
Oh, that’s fantastic. Yeah, you look at, you know, you look at, uh, you know, business smarts and the fact that she now owns all of her music once again. And this, this current tour, she crossed the billion-dollar mark in just tickets. And this was probably a couple of months ago. And, uh, wow. It’s just super neat to see some good people like that succeed. That that’s pretty cool. Let’s talk about uncle Quincy though. I have to, I have to ask you, give, give me some background and some, some family stories, Quincy Jones, uh, did, was he born in Seattle or just went to school in Seattle?
DANA FRANK 31:35
No, Mark. And I’ll tell you that my, my parents, my mother’s side of the family roots come from Chicago and I’m just, that’s the other part of my family lineage that I’m so incredibly proud of is that my grandfather was a carpenter. My grandmother was a lifelong domestic. And out of this little bitty two-bedroom house, they raised eight individuals who all were incredible in every, I mean, my, my mom’s baby brother is a federal judge. Um, my Aunt Margie, she is, um, she was the first African American flight attendant hired by Alaska airline and the first to retire. Um, uh, and you know, all of my aunts and uncles, um, are just phenomenal. And it was just instilled in them all to, you know, get busy. And my mother always shared stories of, you know, my Uncle Quincy, when all the other kids were out playing, you know, he was just locked in the, the community, um, gym where there was a piano and, you know, that was his focus and just later focus on it. So yeah. I’ve had, I’ve been very fortunate to have a front row seat to people that are passionate about what they do and figure out a way to make it happen.
MARK WRIGHT 32:48
So, uh, any, any stories about Quincy just, uh, over the years, uh, in terms of, uh, I mean, the guy’s a genius and, and some of the records that he’s produced are, are some of the most iconic, successful, you know, records and songs in history. But, uh, do you have a story or two about Quincy that you’d like to share?
DANA FRANK 33:06
There’s so many, first of all, he’s one of the funniest people that I know. Um, we always end a conversation with YOLO KoKo. That is, you only live once. So, keep on keeping on. Um, he lives by the quote that, uh, the only place is in the dictionary that success comes before work. And, uh, you know, he’s just, um, you can’t walk away from him without just invigorated and just renewed. I mean, he’s got that special gift that makes you know when you’re in his presence, that you are the only person that matters. And, um, yeah, I mean, we’ve, uh, I’m on the board of MoPOP, and last, uh, March, we honored him, uh, for the Founder’s Award. And just going down the lane, even for myself, being raised with, you know, the old smack water jack and, you know, the old albums. It was just such a timeline of history, it’s even hard for me to mentally wrap my head around everything that he’s accomplished.
MARK WRIGHT 34:05
Wow. Brett, anything from you?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 34:08
One quick story, uh, with Uncle Quincy is, uh, I agree. You, you, you don’t really until you’re with him in his presence and other people around and relish the impact that he’s made on so many people’s lives in various ways. And as I mentioned, uh, my grandfather passed away when I was very young. So, I asked him, I said, Uncle Quincy, you know, tell me, tell me about my grandfather. I don’t remember him that well. Like, what would you say? And he said, your grandfather was a hustler from day one. And I don’t know if it’s a backhanded compliment, but you know, that, that’s what got us here today, is that hustling ability, and I think Uncle Quincy can relate to that as well.
MARK WRIGHT 34:46
Wow, that’s, that’s such, uh, such a rich, rich family history. That’s some, some amazing, uh, amazing people that your grandparents, um, um, brought into the world and raised up. Dana, I’d love some perspective from you. Um, our country, really, over the past five years or so, really has had a reckoning with race. And, uh, and our history and our history of racism in this country. I’d just love some thoughts from you, Dana, about where we are as a country in, in dealing with racism and where Seattle is more specifically when it comes to racism, because we’ve had to confront our past. And it’s been, it’s been a rocky period over the past several years in America, but I’d love to hear from you some, some thoughts on that.
DANA FRANK 35:31
Sure, Mark. I personally believe that we have a long way to go. One of the reasons that I decided to write my story is, um, you know, I was reading Emily Flitter’s book called White Wall, and it talks about banking while black. And in Emily’s book, she shares how Jimmy Kennedy, who was a former NFL African American star, he couldn’t get, uh, private banking privileges. And they taped a conversation with an employee at Chase Bank and said, you know, we don’t bank with people that look like you. And I mean, this is present day and, you know, he had 14 million dollars and, um, they would not give him private banking status. And, you know, it’s an issue. I see it every day. I see it still when I try to get loans and, um, you know, the pushback and they’re not as desirable. And I mean, the statistics show that, you know, 74 percent of white households own homes compared to 46 percent of black households. We’ve got to, to bring that divide smaller. We’ve got to bridge that that deficit. And I think the only way that we’re going to be able to do that is, as my son said, through education, through accessing funds and these programs that are available, they’ve got nationwide programs, not here in Seattle, but like Divvy Homes that will help you do a lease with option to get into a house. And equity is the only way to create the racial, the financial, um, equity. It’s just, that’s the only way we can do it.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 37:04
Still the oldest way is that owning a home is just the equity that you build from that is how you, how you start. And we have to work to, yeah, like mom said, bridge that gap. Uh, we live in Seattle, which has one of the, it’s a dwindling African American population in this city. And you can trace that back to the last 60, 70 years, uh, as, uh, from the red lining to when folks realized that the Central District of Seattle was a great place because it’s so close to everything. And so the, they drove prices up, uh, different, you know, ethnicities, uh, came in here and it, it forced a lot of, uh, African American families either out, they sold their homes, they move further south and, uh, we, we, we’re working hard to how to, how to be course correct that now, but yeah, like my mom mentioned it again, we have to educate, we have to get involved in our communities, we have to speak up against these injustices. Yeah. And vote very important to get involved both, both nationally and your local politics, you know, um, finding candidates that are really supportive of your, of your, of your vision and position. Um.
DANA FRANK 38:12
And I think you can also start small. I mean, we talk about, um, my father always had a saying, just because it’s on your ass, doesn’t make it an asset. And, you know, I love that because I think that there’s just, there’s too much, uh, immediate gratification that people want. And it’s, it’s the old adage of working hard today so that you can live tomorrow like most people can’t. And, um, the proof is in the pudding. I mean, if people really consider every day, either they’re putting in time for someone else, like my father very easily could have done go into Chrysler Ford or else you’re, you’re investing in yourself. And, and that’s it. Every day I look at someone and I say, what are you doing to invest back in you? And I’m not saying give up your day job. I understand. But you know, it might take, you know, uh, after hours.
MARK WRIGHT 39:00
So, getting back to what we talked about in terms of racism, I think a lot of white Americans think that, oh, we’ve had that conversation and it’s no longer a problem. Or we had a black president, so what more do you want? And it’s like, what I’m hearing from you is that it is so alive and well in terms of just the lived experience of trying to get a loan and, and trying to get a job and trying to get that promotion.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 39:24
I’ll start with my biggest point is about education. No matter, number one is going to be education. We have to tell communities of color that there are other opportunities to build success and what wealth looks like to you. It does not mean necessarily what we see in terms of media with superstar athletes or music or, or, or, uh, those kinds of truths, which I know those lanes, which have worked for many, many people, but for everyone else, we can use our minds and put those forward and say, you know, how can I build something that is going to outlive me and, and, and, and teach others these lessons, which is part of what my mom’s doing with her book.
DANA FRANK 40:03
I also really feel it’s so important to find mentors. I spend a ton of time in my community. I’m, as I said, I’m on the board of MoPOP. I’m a member of the Sunset Club. I’m a member of the Seattle Tennis Club. And you don’t see black people, you know, uh, by and large in these organizations, uh, but it’s aligning with those organizations. And then bringing it back to help the community. I’m, I’m a supporter of Mary’s Place. No child sleeps outside campaign. And by and large, the communities that I served as, when I go to nativity school to teach little girls, tennis, they’re all African American. So, what I’m trying to do is use my platform to reach these kids. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve had a 30-year, uh, no 20-year, um, uh. It’s a fundraiser for Treehouse for Foster Kids and you know, it’s, it’s servicing the community and giving back and letting them see that there are other options. And I think the biggest thing is aligning yourself with a network that can help improve your set status and situation.
MARK WRIGHT 41:04
Yeah. You know, we talked a little bit about politics, Brett. I’ve covered a lot of politicians, uh, over the 35 years I was a journalist, I’m looking at you. I’m looking at a smart, professional real estate, uh, guy who has been in the community for a long time. I mean, I don’t want to put you on the spot, Brett, but have you thought about, have you thought about politics?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 41:28
This is a shout out to my wife, Mark, who is an amazing person who works in politics herself. And, uh, I will not be getting into that. I will continue to, uh, voice my concerns. I have no problem. I’ve testified in front of city council and, uh, our state legislature here in Washington, uh, and I will support candidates that I feel, uh, see the importance of making a Seattle for everyone, meaning that we continue to build and grow. We support small business, and we support families who want to, to build for themselves and, and create a better balancing act that I’ve seen in the last five years in our city.
DANA FRANK 42:08
We support George Hollingsworth. Can we say that?
MARK WRIGHT 42:14
You could say whatever you want. This is your, this is your episode. That’s awesome. Um, yeah, I, I, I mean, I’ve talked to a number of, of business owners and, and leaders over the past several years, and, and there’s a real thought that the Seattle City Council has swung way too far to one side, and it’s time to come back. I mean, when you start thinking about why is Amazon, you know, developing new buildings in Bellevue and why is you know, why are some of these companies starting to look outside the city? Um, I don’t want to put you guys on the spot, but if you could give some advice to the current city council, I mean, when it comes to the business community, what would that be?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 42:59
My advice to them would be to allow people to operate their business. It’s very simple. You know, uh, this is a real easy point. Uh, we operate in the Central District of Seattle, but we’ve always had our post office downtown. An opportunity to go down, see some of the bigger buildings, what’s happening and, you know, kind of be in the know, obviously with the pandemic. And then these last few years, downtown has, has changed quite a bit. And there are still people who don’t believe in this resurgence. I’m not one of them. I I’m fully, I believe in downtown Seattle and the importance to this city. However, our post office is closing at the end of this month in October. Uh, we had to move it to, uh, closer to the C, the city. Uh, take the city though, for example, uh, the black owned, uh, the postman, uh, on, uh, Union and MLK closed down just last week because of violence in this city. We need to be able to allow small businesses to operate and also provide public services and support for people in need of mental health services, while also enforcing our local laws.
MARK WRIGHT 44:06
Dana, anything from you?
DANA FRANK 44:07
I’m just, you know, I totally endorsed the, um, law last week about, um, not being able to use drugs in public. Um, you know, I mean, it saddens me as a lifelong Seattleite when I take my 91-year-old mother downtown and, you know, we have to walk past someone, you know, using crack out in broad daylight. That’s not okay. And I agree with my son, if it’s a mental health issue, people need help, but you know, I don’t want to go into Walgreens on 23rd and Jackson and see people just come in and steal because they can’t. I mean, we have to get back to a situation of justice and I appreciate what Mayor Harrell was trying to do in terms of, uh, you know, bring more police on. I mean, who would refund the police? That’s crazy. If I get in trouble, I don’t want to call a social worker. I need help.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 44:54
I’ll add just one point there as well, that I think there’s a narrative that the, especially was um, pushed through, uh, the murder of George Floyd that states, you know, there’s this defunding of the police that communities of color don’t want police. That has not been our experience or with folks that we’ve talked to also, uh, from African American families. But people of color support the police and I think want to have them. While, of course, there’s always going to be bad actors and we have to do our work and diligence to weed them out and prevent things like that in the future. But we cannot allow a primarily student of color, um, daycare center, not too far from where we are sitting right now, to get shot at last week. That’s unacceptable. And that’s not the city that I was raised in, or we want to, or I want to raise my future children in.
DANA FRANK 45:47
Exactly. We’re very good friends with Carmen Best, a former police chief. And you know, I mean, it’s just, I think that she was such a class act and it’s in her book, Black and, and “Black and Blue,” uh, you know, exposing the, the situation, uh, what she was dealt with. And, you know, you just cannot function with anarchy. It was just. It was crazy.
MARK WRIGHT 46:10
Yeah. Yeah. I’m a big fan of Carmen’s as well. Um, she was, I think the perfect, uh, police chief at the, at the right time. And still I’m scratching my head as to how that, how that happened. That, uh, that she was essentially just, you know, pushed out. Or, you know, didn’t want to put up with what she had to put up with. Um, I’d love to talk about just the real estate market in Seattle. Um, I’m sitting here north of Seattle in, in the little town of Mukilteo. And if I had to move in here today, I could not afford this house. Um, we moved in 20 years ago and it’s just, real estate has just gone crazy. But I would love, I’d love your perspective how much higher in terms of value is, do you guys think that the real estate market is going to go? Because at some point, um, no one’s going to be able to afford to, to, to buy a home.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 47:07
What we’re hearing right now, often with the phrase that I can’t stand is just survive till 25. Uh, I mean, people think that the market is going to course correct. We look at where interest rates are. We know they can’t sit there forever. Um, but we also are not going to get back to where interest rates were in 2020. Um, the Washington state legislature passed a slew of bills last year, um, to upzone our state, which is super important. We are big proponents of that as well. Build more housing. We need to cut through some of the red tape that, uh, has prevented us from doing so, and is driving that price. Uh, basic economics, it’s a supply and demand problem. We live in the greater Seattle area, it’s finite. It’s surrounded on water on all sides. So, we’ve only can go up with what we’re, we’re, uh, our ability to do. So, unlike a city like Chicago, which has sprawling land everywhere in this upzoning and that you see that we can, you know, build more, but it has to be done. So, with consideration for those who have been here for a long time as well, there’s a lot of folks who are here on the other side who would say we need to get rid of single-family homes altogether, townhomes, etc. and duplexes. But what do you say to the 80-year-old woman who’s lived in her house for 50 years, um, who might be you know saving it for her Children or Children’s Children. I think that the market will correct itself, especially in Seattle. If we can build what you know, I talked to developers and landlords alike who want to have a vision for a 15-minute city. What that means is you can leave and everything you need is within, within 15-minute walk of you. I think we’re going to continue to sprawl out. We need to do better in terms of our public transit as well as we continue to build that to be able to get allow people who live in some of the suburban cities that they can get into work more easily. So that’s how I envision Seattle in the future of a collaborative effort on both sides, allowing, uh, more housing, allowing people to age in place, more public services that everyone can have access to.
DANA FRANK 49:17
And truthfully, the prices have become just exorbitant. Uh, we have a really hard time penciling right now as we look at future investments. Uh, you know, a lot of people are frozen on the market in Seattle based on the laws that have the pendulum has swung so far to favor the resident. Um, so, I mean, you know, and I’ve, I’ve thought about many opportunities of how to get creative and look at different types of financing like my parents did, you know, during those times, I remember times when we would pay interest as high as 21%, you know, I mean, it was, it was some real meager times, you know, back, um, back in those days, but, uh, I just, I, as my son said, I think that it does correct itself. You know, I mean, it just, it’s the ebb and flow and it will come around.
MARK WRIGHT 50:06
When we look at, you know, all the variables, you talk about density and growing up, talk about traffic, you talk about transportation, you talk about parking. I mean, all of these issues really are a big challenge. I mean, I’m sitting here in Mukilteo, and we still don’t have light rail up to, you know, it’s not finished all the way up to Linwood yet, which is just right here. I mean we are, we are so behind when it comes to infrastructure that would support more affordable housing. Um, so yeah, if it, so you think one, one of the, the, the most critical things would be to, to get creative about density in the city of Seattle?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 50:41
Yes, I, I, I think so. We, we, we are behind. We, uh, Seattle was a town that grew too rapidly, and we did not play catch up. That’s enough. We need to get creative on how we support single family zoning. They’ve given some incentives to build, uh, accessory dwelling units or detached accessory dwelling units, ADUs and DADUs to housing. There needs to be tax benefits and incentives for people to do that as well. But ultimately, in terms of what people think about that, and, and, and maybe building on their own land, or, or, or renting out part of it, there has to be laws in place that allow folks like our friend, my mom mentioned earlier, not to be kicked out of his own home, living in a van, so unfairly. The, the laws and the, the communication has to be collaborative on both sides. It cannot be just one way or the other.
DANA FRANK 51:29
And it’s all about change. I mean, my father would literally get arrested for having accessory dwelling units or Airbnbs. I mean, he would subdivide a single-family house and make it a duplex to make the mortgage. And that was illegal. And it’s like, now it’s a multibillion-dollar company, you know? So, it’s just, we’ve got to use common sense. Which ain’t so common anymore.
MARK WRIGHT 51:55
You can say that again. I love the title of your book, “Get Up And Get On It.” I mean, that’s just so cool. And, uh, again, comes out in February.
DANA FRANK 52:04
Thank you, Mark.
MARK WRIGHT 52:05
Where books, where books are sold. I’d love to, I’d love some, just some final inspiration from, from both of you. I think it’s so cool what you’ve done. I mean, it’s, it’s rare to be able to successfully take a business and pass it from one generation to the next. Um, so it’s super inspiring to see what you’re doing and it’s also super inspiring to see that you’re committed to, to providing affordable housing in a city where that is becoming so rare. But, uh, I’d love some, some final inspiration from you both.
DANA FRANK 52:36
I think, um, my biggest thing is that the statistics show that only 12 percent of, uh, family businesses make it to the third generation. And we have definitely been through mean, legal, meager times. My parents went through a divorce after 32 years and it was tough. Receiver came in and our properties that, uh, we kept, uh, got after the divorce were really in disrepair. And, um, you know, that’s where that drive of you know, we could lose it, you know, and I always say, you know, it could propel you or it can fail you and failure was not an option. And that’s my biggest thing is when I talk to young people, it’s like, utilize your time. It’s the only asset that you have that you can spend, but you can’t get back. And so, every day, I mean, there’s a wealth of opportunities. There’s people that want to be your mentors. I mean, I, in my book, I interviewed several mentors, including, um, the founder of, uh, JG Wentworth, Gary Ballora, co-founder of JG Wentworth. I interviewed people that, um, were really fire starters is what I call them. And that is those people that are not going to accept the narrative that their birth, their skin color, their religion, what pronoun they go by, nothing matters. They are going to change the trajectory of their life and that for future generations. And I just really believe if you stay focused and connect yourself with the right circle, you can change your life.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 54:00
I can’t add anything to that. Well said mom.
MARK WRIGHT 54:05
Um, I, I guess I do have one more question. Dana, what are you most proud of when you think about your life and, and this family business and your son, you know, joining the business? What, what are you most proud of?
DANA FRANK 54:18
I am most proud that we are still standing and that we have taken my father’s vision from 1950 to 2023, and this is all we’ve eaten off. This is the only work that we’ve ever known. And to show people that, you know, is this possible, it is possible. That’s what I’m proud of is that we’re still here.
MARK WRIGHT 54:40
That’s awesome. Brett, anything from you?
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 54:43
I, yeah, this is where we get emotional talking about family, Mark. I would say that I am just so proud of the role models I’ve been getting, I, I, that I’ve been provided to me, how lucky am I to work with my mom and my grandma, these two amazing women who have taught me so much, especially to be black women in business, through all the difficulties that we’ve talked about today, it’s, it’s inspirational. It makes you want to go out and and, and succeed with anything that you put your mind to. I’m, I’m so proud that they giving me the platform to go on and learn from them, to go out and explore my own. And then collaboratively to give me the platform to work with them as well. It’s a true honor.
DANA FRANK 55:25
Well, you make me proud.
MARK WRIGHT 55:26
Well, this has been amazing. Dana Frank and Brett Frank-Looney. I’m so honored to spend some time with you and keep up the amazing work. Your redeeming work is really what this podcast is all about. So, um, this has been fun and it’s been an honor. Thank you so, so much to both of you.
DANA FRANK 55:44
Appreciate you more than you know, Mark. Thank you.
BRETT FRANK-LOONEY 55:46
Really, Mark. Thank you.
MARK WRIGHT 55:48
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P family. New episodes drop every Monday. And if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING, where we are winning the game of work.
