Ever since entrepreneur Dave Young was a kid, he has been fascinated with real estate – fascinated by how it creates wealth, by the dreams attached to it, and how universal it is to all our lives.
Dave is a self-described dreamer and lived for decades with undiagnosed ADD. A turning point came when he told one of his brothers, “Hey, I’ve got this idea.” His brother said, “Stop. I don’t want to hear about something else you’re not going to do.”
It was a wake-up call and was hard to hear, but it led Dave to a deeper understanding of who he is and how he thinks. And it turns out that the dreamer aspect of Dave’s personality is actually one of his superpowers. It even led him to start writing screenplays as a tribute to his daughters!
Today, Dave is helping lead Alair Homes – a massively successful Canadian company that franchises and supports luxury home builders across North America. He is also a host of the podcast “Builder Nuggets.”
If you’re a dreamer, take heart. Describing himself, Dave says, “I suck at anything that requires structure and detailed follow-through, but I love exciting projects with positive people.”
Get ready to be inspired by entrepreneur Dave Young who is living proof of how far our dreams can take us.
Listen to the full episode here.
Resources from the episode:
- Here’s a link to Dave’s podcast, the Builder Nuggets. Listen to hear about the life-changing breakthroughs that builders and remodelers across North America are using to create the most rewarding businesses in their industry.
- Learn more about Alair Homes and the work they do here.
- Connect with Dave Young on LinkedIn.
Share Article on Social Media
Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Dave Young and Mark Wright
DAVE YOUNG 00:02
Every single person that I explained this awesome idea to was 100% of the belief that there was no way that that would ever possibly work, and that it sounded like a, a pyramid scheme, and why don’t you just, if you wanna be a builder, why don’t you just get software? I’m like, I don’t want to be a builder. I, I just think that there’s opportunity to go and meet a whole bunch of builders and change their, change their lives by, um, putting all this horsepower into them., and at the time, it wasn’t even horsepower yet. It was just an idea.
MARK WRIGHT 00:39
This is the BEATS WORKING Show. We are on a mission to redeem work. The word, the place, and the way I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to BEATS WORKING on the show today. The power of visionary thinking ever since Dave Young was a kid, he’s been fascinated with real estate, fascinated by how it creates wealth, by the dreams attached to it, and how universal real estate is to all of our lives. Dave is a self-described dreamer and he lived for decades with undiagnosed ADD. A turning point came when he told one of his brothers, hey, I’ve got this great idea, and his brother said, stop. I don’t want to hear about something else you’re not going to do. That was a wakeup call for Dave, but it led him to a deeper understanding of who he is and how he thinks, and it turns out that dreamer aspect of Dave’s personality is actually one of his superpowers. It even led to him writing screenplays. Today, Dave Young is helping lead Alair Homes. It’s a massively successful Canadian company that franchises and supports luxury home builders across North America. The clip you just heard at the top is what other people told Dave after Alair CEO Blair McDaniel shared his vision of what Alair could become. Our conversation begins when I ask Dave how at 12 years old, he fell in love with real estate.
DAVE YOUNG 02:16
Well, yeah, 12 year old Dave was, uh, it’s interesting that you say it like that 12 year old Dave was that’s about the time that I got interested in real estate and that my parents, uh, exposed my brothers and I to, uh, the notion that you could buy a property using very little of your own money, fix it up, have somebody else live in it, pay all the bills, you got to keep what was left over and on top of it, you ended up with a house at the end that was really, uh, compelling. Leading up to that, my brothers and I had always been interested in raking leaves, cutting lawns, uh, back in this shows my age but back in the day, we would go on bottle hunts where we would, we would ride our bikes around with, with, uh, with a basket and bags, if you were lucky, and you would look for, uh, coke bottles or beer bottles and, and, you know, uh, there’d be times where you’d be like, stop the car, stop the car. I see a keeper. Uh, so we sort of upgraded. That’s not really that scalable Mark, uh, in, in the long run, and I, and I, as a kid, I instantly saw the scale as a 12 year old. I saw the scalability of a, of apartment building, uh, or apartment and multi-family rentals. So very fortunate that my, my, um, my parents exposed us to that, and by the time I was at finished high school and going off to university, I knew the only reason I was going off to school was to grow up and to have that get away from your parents’ experience, and, and as soon as I was done, I, I finished my post-secondary education with a degree and then at the same time a real estate license and got right to it when I, when I got back.
MARK WRIGHT 04:01
I think that’s such an interesting story and I have to; I have to comment on the collecting bottles. We lived on high, what used to be old Highway 99 just south of the Canadian border. Um, and it used to be like the I five before I five was built and we had a donkey named Jezebel and we would put burlap sacks over Jezebel’s back and we would walk up and down the roadway collecting bottles and uh, I think it was Lucky Lager beer had the ring around the top and that was worth 2 cents instead of just 1 cent when we took it to the bottle recycler. So, uh, I have fond memories of, it’s shocking how many and sad how many beer bottles were thrown out along the roadways back then. But, uh, that’s, that was one of my earliest recollections of, hey, we can make money at this.
DAVE YOUNG 04:50
I don’t know what people are thinking right now. I’m, I’m talking about doing a riding a riding a bike and you’re bringing a donkey into, into this thing. You win, buddy. You win. I seem to remember they were 5 cents. Um, and in Canada we didn’t get anything for cans. I don’t know if you had, uh, if, if, uh, cans qualified back in the day or not, but I remember them
MARK WRIGHT 05:10
Just as just the raw weight. Yeah. They would crush the aluminum and get paid by the pound.
DAVE YOUNG 05:15
Yeah. Nothing to us, and liquor bottles weren’t, uh, worth anything either. It was the beer and the pop bottles. So, the keeper was a big deal.
MARK WRIGHT 05:23
Yeah. So, talk about your, uh, early career. I think it’s just fascinating, Dave, that your parents taught you that, because I think the lesson most of us were taught by our parents is, is just what they knew at the time, and that is, you know, you get a job, and you work for a company and you work hard and somehow you’ll get rewarded for it but I think the beauty of your story is that you, your parents taught you how to create wealth as opposed to just working for somebody else, which I think is such a fascinating lesson.
DAVE YOUNG 05:49
Yeah, and it’s interesting because their, their parents believed exactly what you just described, and then they believed that as well, and my dad, you know, he was always entrepreneurial, uh, or had a, a bit of an entrepreneurial streak, uh, from his family actually, and uh, but I, I think he kind of felt held back and, and went the safe route always, and he was a materials manager at a factory, and we lived in a small town. So, when that factory, uh, shut down, uh, he was looking for what to do next and had a close, uh, friend of the family who was the local real estate broker, and that combination of my dad having just decided, hey, I’m going to, you know, pull the trigger and let’s get an investment property, I think that could work to this opportunity of, uh, becoming a realtor, not necessarily by choice at the time. Um, but because there were limited options and, uh, the competence of a friend, you said, I think you would be good at this, and you would like it. And, um, yeah, it really changed their, their trajectory. They went from, you know, a, a part-time teacher and a mid-level, you know, sort of entry level, fa uh, factory, uh, manager, uh, to being curious about this, and I think it’s that curiosity. Uh, I called them little red threads. You, you need to pull them every once in a while. Sometimes it’s just a little tiny piece of thread, and other times, whether it’s the right question, you can unravel a whole different, uh, whole different future. So that, that curiosity, having a little bit of success, seeing the model work, then they started to do another one here and another one there. So, it, uh, that combined with, you know, what the success they were having in real estate, allowing them to do a few more because they could, it’s always about qualifying for mortgages. Um, yeah, we got it. It was really nice to see a, a living example of it and created momentum for, uh, for me as well.
MARK WRIGHT 07:48
So, looking back at that time, I think those of us who, who haven’t invested in real estate before, I think we kind of have a romantic idea of what it is, and, and I think we underestimate how easy it is because there’s a lot to it. It’s, it’s an actual business and, and if you do some things wrong, it could really come back and bite you. What was the, the biggest lesson that you learned as you watched your parents develop real estate?
DAVE YOUNG 08:12
Uh, that’s a, that’s an interesting question. I think, well, the secret is other people’s money, um, opium, but not that kind of opium, other people’s money. That was apparent pretty early on. So, the, the big challenge is, um, finding the seed capital and then funding it. So, when I bought my first building, I was, um, well, I had a, I had a, a small flip first that gave me a little bit of seed money and a little bit of mo momentum but my next building, I lucked into, uh, a 15-unit apartment building. Then under normal circumstances, Nobody, you know, in my position would’ve been able to, um, acquire. But there was, um, uh, the sellers, it was a group of sellers, sort of a small consortium, and they had sold the building earlier in the year and it made financial sense from a tax standpoint for them to sell this one. So, uh, they agreed to hold a substantial second mortgage and at the time, interest rates were way different. It was ten and three eights was, I agreed to assume this high rate mortgage. Uh, I paid 10% interest on a second, and I ended, I borrowed some from my parents. I ended up buying it with, I think, $9,000 of my own money, and a year and a half later interest rates had I renewed the mortgage at 7.35% and because of the increase in value through the lower rates, I was able to pay out, uh, pretty much all the debt right there. So, I was like, hey, uh, when I say all, all the debt, I mean the, uh, the second mortgages, not, not the entire ah, mortgage and everything like that, but anyway, you quickly learned that it’s, uh, coming up with the seed money and then qualifying for the loans, and nowadays it’s all about putting together the right investor groups and bringing, bringing deals. So, the people that are doing it and scaling it at a large magnitude now, uh, definitely have some, uh, some things that you can learn, but I did it the old-fashioned way is, you know, scraped together a down payment and, uh, then try and find a way to qualify for that loan and if you need another investor, go out and go out and get ’em.
MARK WRIGHT 10:32
How old were you, Dave, at that first property that when?
DAVE YOUNG 10:35
I was, I was 25 for that one.
MARK WRIGHT 10:38
Wow and was that your, was that your career when, once you were done with school and, and you, you got out into the world? What, what, what was your actual career?
DAVE YOUNG 10:46
So, I, uh, my actual career at that point was, uh, selling real estate. I loved the idea of doing that because I could have total freedom, my own hours. Uh, I, I joke around, and I think I may have mentioned this when we spoke earlier, that I’m basically une, I feel like I’m unemployable, uh, that I need that, that freedom and you know, I’m trying to change things too much for most people. But, um, you, I, um,
MARK WRIGHT 11:15
That suited you, I take it in terms of, you know, why, why were you successful? Uh, at, at that,
DAVE YOUNG 11:20
It, uh, it just naturally came easy to me. I could tell when I talked to people what they wanted and what they were looking for sometimes, even if they couldn’t, uh, see what it was and then it was also a fun challenge for me if I knew what they wanted to go out and, and find it. What was a little intimidating at the beginning was that, you know, this is a, that’s an industry where, when you first start out, it’s about friends and family and network and connections. I was 23 years old, fresh outta school and didn’t have that built up yet because, and whatever friends and family, local friends and family we had, they were already doing business with my parents so that, that aspect was gone but I, I loved being up at the lake. Like our, our family cottage was 30 minutes away from the house and whenever my parents had gone up there, they didn’t want the phone ringing. They wanted to tune out. So that’s where I tapped into the network, and I loved being able to be showing, going out, looking at properties in the boat, um, all that sort of thing for about. Three or four years, that was my primary, primary career. It allowed me to have the tools to find investment properties. Uh, so I, I think I had a small portfolio of 25 or 30 units, something like that by the time I, uh, said, hey, if I don’t get out of this little town, which I love, I won’t have experienced life the way it should be. Uh, like I won’t have known any, any different. So, I actually at that point, got lured away to the city, uh, to the big city of Toronto, and I had friends in the pharmaceutical business and I thought, wow, this would be nice, stable, stable income. Like, you’re not a, you’re not an entrepreneur, you’re not a sole proprietor. So better to qualify for mortgages and, uh, this, this stable income. It was a pretty fun lifestyle, came with a car, uh, cool people, and, uh, I, after about it didn’t take me long to realize that I hated it because it was still quite, uh, could still be quite structured and you were actually employed and maybe you got two to three weeks of vacation a year. All your adventures and fun were, uh, over. So, I ended up, uh, next, uh, had an opportunity in the, uh, in the technology space where, uh, my uncle worked for a, uh, a large sur land surveying company that also did a project for the provincial government where they flew over, uh, Southern Ontario and took ortho imagery. So, imagery at 10,000, 10,000 feet, kind of like you would see on Google Maps, uh, nowadays by satellite. They were early adopters and had done this by, by plane, and then they stitched all the photos together and they had relationships with a bunch of data providers so they could layer all this information, and my uncle, uh, reached out to me and said, listen, we’re we think that you could do something cool with, with this, uh, for real estate? Would you come and work with us as a consultant and be part of a team that’s putting this, putting together a real estate application? So, I said, sure, that sounds like fun. I’m, I’m sure that’ll work. And we went and did and, uh, put that together. We layered, uh, real estate information over top of school information and population, and you could turn the data sets on or off just, just like you would see today on Google Maps, but before it ever existed in that commercial format, and we thought, this is dynamite. We took it out to the top three real estate brands and a massive association, and they said, this is incredible. We can never let the public see this. So we went, what? We saw it as such a first mover advantage, game breaker but at the time, the um, over 50% of realtors in, um, in Ontario would not allow the address of their listings to be shown online because the mindset was more of a scarcity versus abundance mindset. There was concern that if you didn’t have to call me to get the information, uh, that I would, I risk losing out on the, on the business. So it was that, you know, it was that captivity feeling and we’re like, but that’s not gonna last. Like, we remember, I, when I first started, it was books you couldn’t find out about list. There’d be a little bit of information in the paper, and then you had to go see a realtor who had the MLS book, the actual physical book, um, to be able to see all the properties that are for sale. So, access, you know, and when access to information and fairly readily available or becoming more readily available information when access to information is your business, you should be mindful of your future, um, because we saw this happen. Um, our realtors, the real estate industry has evolved. There’s plenty of, uh, ways that realtors have expanded their services and provide value in all kinds of different ways, but relying on, um, that type of, uh, that type of hook. Is very, very short-lived. So, what happened was, we, we couldn’t believe it. Uh, everybody loved it. Uh, and then, uh, a company said, hey, all these realtor realtors want it. We would like to, uh, we would like to take it and serve it up to the realtors behind the curtain, and so that’s what, uh, that’s what ended up happening. Next, I got invited to come work with that company and run their real estate division, and we ended up selling that product, tying it to their core product and brought in a bunch of others, other things, uh, and ended up delivering that to over 40,000 realtors, uh, across across Ontario. Again, it didn’t take me too long to realize the corporate environment wasn’t right for me. I felt like I had all these ideas. I couldn’t move the Queen Mary, like, you want to turn that thing. You can push as much as you want on it, but it’s only turning a little bit at a time, and I developed all these relationships, uh, and was having fun with the emerging technology and, uh, went out on my own, put a, put, uh, put together a company that was basically reselling, uh, and repackaging other companies, uh, products, uh, and re reimagining them for the real estate space, and did that for a, uh, a number of years until I got a call out of the blue one day, which sort of took me to where I am now. Uh, in my career as, and this is funny to say, as a builder, you know, construction pod. I have a construction podcast and I’m not a construction guy. Uh, but I had a call out of the blue that just changed the course of what I was gonna do next,
MARK WRIGHT 18:51
And that was Alair Holmes?
DAVE YOUNG 18:52
And that was a call yeah. Related to Alair. So, um, just funny how stuff works out sometimes, but I uh,
MARK WRIGHT 19:01
Isn’t that funny? Yeah. Every uh, every experience that you had had kind of led you to that point, right?
DAVE YOUNG 19:07
It’s funny cuz in, uh, in some ways no because I’m not handy at all. I’m not really like a, a builder. Um, yeah, I’ve done,
MARK WRIGHT 19:16
Come on. I was trying to make you look good.
DAVE YOUNG 19:17
Yeah, I know. Yeah, and I need all the help I can get with that but, um, you know what, I think the, um, the coolest part about the story is that I had somebody reach out to me. It was because of what they, they knew about my business development, uh, history. They knew about my interest in real estate and they had, they reached out to me because they thought this would be a good fit, and it was a, it was actually a franchise sales rep and. He had just landed the rights to be able to, you know, to something new that he was bursting at the seams to tell me about, and said, I’ve, I’ve never seen a, a franchise system like this before in 20 years. I haven’t bought into, you know, doing any of them. It’s sort of the golden rule, but I’m, I want to do this one and I, and, uh, I want my brother to do it and, you know, want to go in on it with you, and I’m like, okay, what is it? And he said, it’s a custom home building franchise. I said, dude, I am out, like done. Um, Terry Lynn, my wife jokes around that the best tool in the toolbox for me is the checkbook, uh, or business cards. That’s, you know, that’ll back in the day, that would’ve been a good start too but anyway, he said, wait, wait, wait, wait. He started to tell me about it and he said, listen, I just, I want you to hear it from Blair, the founder, and he’s a real estate guy and so he used that too. He’s like, his family owns lots of apartment buildings. You’re gonna hit it off, and I’m like, why not like somebody, you know, why wouldn’t you take a little bit of time? And I like new stuff. So, there was a little red thread and I’m like, why not tug on it? So, I ended up agreeing to a 30-minute call with Blair McDaniel and, uh, that, and, and, and the gentleman who had called me said, okay, thanks cuz I already told him you would do it. So, I was lucky for him that I did as well. But, um, that 30-minute call with Blair went two hours and 45 minutes, and I heard a, a young guy’s vision of what he could achieve, uh, or what we could achieve in a custom home building space from the standpoint of changing an industry, a fractured industry, where you have all of these small businesses all running in completely different ways, and, uh, crazy public opinion about them, and like, just a mess. Uh, like the most fragmented, you know, and, and coming from real estate where they would, you know, they used to say, oh, it’s like ra, you know, it, it’s like herding cats, right? Um, the better version of that I heard one time is like trying to raise frogs in a wheelbarrow. The, the visual for that, especially as a, having been a kid who’s, uh, actually hunted for frogs, um, is, is uh,
MARK WRIGHT 22:27
I love that visual.
DAVE YOUNG 22:28
Spectacular, right? So, so you’ve got this fractured industry, everybody all over the place and the opportunity to. leverage a mastermind, put in back-office services, share marketing, share a brand, share all kinds of stuff, and um, and Blair got into it with me about how he had researched all the different franchises and, you know, everybody told him, no, it’s too complicated. It, you know, it won’t work. But the more difficult it is, the, the more valuable it’s going to be when it, when you are able to solve that problem., and the market for it was, is huge, and this is, you know, uh, we’re coming up on, we’re just about at my 10-year anniversary. So, it was very exciting to hear about this, to learn about, to compare what he wanted to do with consolidation in other, in other, um, verticals, and when we looked at it, we, you know, we could not find an example of a, of a vertical or an industry that hadn’t been through some form of consolidation. Where you either had big players buying up, smaller players or, or leveraged services or collaborations of some kind. Every single industry has them in. Some of the most successful brands are built around that, and so, I was hooked. I spent the next few, I would say, weeks or months. It’s hard for me to tell cuz I was in the middle of five back surgeries at that time, which is a completely, that’s a completely different show. Uh, pretty much crippled and, uh, doing the wrong stuff to manage pain or doing what I had to do to manage pain, I guess you could say. Um, but, uh, yeah, it was, it ended up, I tried, I wanted to poke holes in it, so I, I went to people I knew who were business people related to the, uh, to the construction industry, and with without a doubt, every single person that I, uh, explained this awesome idea too, was 100% of the belief that there was no way that that would ever possibly work, and that it sounded like a, a pyramid scheme, and why don’t you just, if you wanna be a builder, why don’t you just get software? I’m like, I don’t want to be a builder. I, I just think that there’s opportunity to go and meet a whole bunch of builders and changed their, changed their lives by, um, putting all of this horsepower into them. And at the time it wasn’t even horsepower yet. It was just an idea. Uh, there, there wasn’t even an office in Ontario. There was maybe a, a four or five, um, a la offices that had started out in Nanaimo, BC and here it was the seed of an idea but, um, yeah, there’s, we just had a call this week. There’s a hundred Alair locations across North America now, and, uh, I’m very fortunate to collaborate with some really, High think like high level, uh, builders, and when I say that, I don’t mean I, I don’t instinctively mean or instinctually mean that they’re high level from um, a quality or caliber standpoint. They definitely are but what’s more impactful to me is how high level they are in terms of what they wanna achieve with their business, how they’re driven to create opportunity for other people. The mindset that we’re attracting, that’s what makes it fun for me. Cuz, you get to a point where you wanna be able to pick and choose who you’re, who you’re spending your time with, who you’re supporting, who you’re elevating and, and who’s, um, who’s going on that mission with you, and, uh, like I said, I’m, I’m really fortunate to have found that sort of environment right now with a group of people who are, you know, putting the pedal down and doing it for all the right reasons and have created this so much meant momentum. Um, and it’s, it’s such an accelerant for problem solving, for growing, um, to be able to have access to this mastermind. So, I probably gave you a little bit too much info there.
MARK WRIGHT 26:54
No, no, I love it, and last night when I was looking up the location map of Alair Homes, I was just amazed you guys are all over North America. Um, what’s the advantage to, to builders, to, to having, you know, to partner with Alair? I mean, what, what did they get out of the arrangement?
DAVE YOUNG 27:12
Yeah, and that’s a, it’s almost, it’s very often the first question whether you’re asking it like as from the third-party standpoint or them asking what do I get out of Alair and the right, the right question? Is, what could we do with it or what could you do with it? And that takes understanding it first so I can share with you what I see others do and why, uh, what it’s meant to them and how, and how it happens, which I think is far more powerful than, hey, what am I gonna get out of it? Um, and it’s really what we do is help, uh, a business owner and their team or their company delve into untapped potential through collaboration with a mastermind and not have to do everything themselves. It’s, um, when you look at the traditional custom home builder, they’re, they are wearing like 11 hats and stressed out. Uh, most of them don’t have the proper systems and structure in place, and they’re just on a treadmill, and they’re businesses you don’t meet too many custom home builders or remodelers that have sold their business have had a graceful exit. Most of them just shut the door because who wants to buy that life? And it’s a lot of pressure on them because they need to be, they need to have, be able to provide leadership for every single aspect of the, of the business, and that may not be their specialty, uh, or may not be their passion. Um, so you find a lot of builders that will not sacrifice quality and that artisan feel where they, they want to be that craftsman style builder and they know, hey, I can’t scale that because other people won’t, you know, do it as well as me. So, it has to always be me. So, we really, when, when I’m looking at it or interviewing a builder, I’m looking at it from the standpoint of, hey, who are you? What do you want to achieve? Who’s on your team? And what do they need? How are you creating, uh, opportunity for them? And what is your highest? And use as a, as a person, what should you be doing in your business and what do you want out of it? Like, do you wanna have a valuable asset or do you want, uh, are you trying to create more free time? And then, you know, from there, there’s about 20 different things that we dig into and get right under the hood with them to figure out what they’ve done already, what they’ve tried, what’s working now, what’s not working, what they believe, where their belief, where they need, may need to see some proof, uh, where they may need some encouragement, uh, to look at something because you get a lot of, you know, at first when we, when we didn’t have, uh, a lot of notoriety in the, we weren’t well known at all. Everybody thought, you know, franchise just did a podcast called, you know, talking about the F word. Um, and builders said, no franchisees for people who, um, you know, who, who can’t run a business or, you know, for people who want to get into a business. It’s like, okay, well what, what, what it was we quickly saw was very different was that people thought that they were losing who they were, and when the model was created, it was important to Blair and the first guys in it, it, it all started as a mastermind. Actually, it’s a franchise by accident, uh, because it was the only structure that would allow this mastermind to exist. So, uh, being able to tap into that, uh, tap into that mastermind and, and grow, uh, is something that people didn’t, uh, didn’t really understand at, uh, at first they thought it was just, you know, systems and structure and, uh, all that sort, or that they were going to have to buy their, their lumber or their nails or, uh, they would have to use this HVAC company. It’s not that at all. Uh, um,
MARK WRIGHT 31:27
Yeah, like a traditional franchise. If you wanna open a McDonald’s, you’ve gotta buy their stuff right from their suppliers,
DAVE YOUNG 31:34
like pizza dough or uh, whatever. So, we call it the accidental franchise. Sometimes the enfranchise, because they really turned what the industry thought it was on its head and said, no, you are still yourself, you’re your team. We’re just gonna take the stuff off your plate that you’re not good at, you’re not passionate about, and that it left to your own devices you probably wouldn’t even do and you’re not, you’re for sure not gonna maintain it or stay on the cutting edge of it. Well, imagine if you had every single aspect of a custom home building business was constantly being worked on by a whole hive of committed and passionate people. So, I often liken it to, depending on where I am, if I’m, if I’m in, if I’m in the Carolinas, I’ll say it’s like a NASCAR team. If I’m, you know, if I’m somewhere else, I might say a Formula One team, cuz I’m much more of a Formula One fan but it’s like taking somebody who says, I, why would I go that I already know how to drive?
It’s like, this is not the same, this is not the same thing, and you cannot do what you’re doing without a team. Uh, I think Mark Mae’s got a podcast like nobody, nobody does it alone or is, or, or, or a book. It’s like, if you want to really achieve. Stop trying to do it all on your own and be a leader and create opportunity and make sure that your team has access to resources and infrastructure that make that, that give them the opportunity to win, and that’s what Alair has, has done, and you know, it’s you, I said we just passed a hundred offices, so that, that’s pretty exciting, and, and we get to see some amazing stories of growth, you know, where, um, my, the last builder that, uh, joined me in South Carolina was doing about $15 million a year, just landed, I’m gonna say somewhere between a 70 and 80 million project, and to see like game changing, things like that. We’ve had, we’ve had, uh, business owners go through horrible situations like cancer where they, if this had been them with one or two project managers in their previous business model, it would, you would’ve been done, you would’ve been bankrupt. You would’ve, it would’ve been all over at the most trying time in your life. Uh, but instead now when that happens, the team has support, the team has been trained, there’s specific roles. Everybody knows their lane and the energy and resources come together, and, and it takes me back to the Formula One example. You can’t just put anybody in the car and crash it. That’s why we are so very careful in going through, uh, and we’ve kissed a few toads in our time, uh, but we are so very careful now about digging in and really learning about, about the builder where they want to go with it. It takes about minimum four to six months for the, for a mutual exploration process. Um, and a lot of times even longer because you’re, you’re dealing with very sensitive things, uh, big movers in markets. Uh, but it’s fun now that it’s, um, becoming more, uh, more attractive to the, the top level builders who have who have become a success, uh, on their own. Now it’s exciting to go. Well, imagine what you can do next if you had all this, if we put them into that Formula One cockpit and so we could, uh, you know, I got ended up getting into the podcast where we get to tell some of these stories and others tell their stories too. So, um, you know, it’s cool.
MARK WRIGHT 35:27
Well, I want to talk about the podcast inn just a sec, but I don’t know anything about, about construction, but I’m just thinking about like the supply chain issues that we’ve had over the last two years. If I was a builder, and I had to solve that one on my own, that would probably take all of my time, not to mention all of the other variables related to building homes.
DAVE YOUNG 35:46
Yeah, and that’s just one example. I mean, there’s also the, the shortage of project management staff, uh, shortage of trades and, and supply but you know, the thing that we’re starting to see is this, um, emerging buying power where we are getting preferred treatment, uh, from vendors, and that’s only gonna continue to grow. I believe we’re already the world’s largest, um, custom home builder and remodeler and, uh, we we’ve, that’s kind of flown under the radar for a long time. But there’s that element where it’s not always about, oh, we’re gonna use our buying power to, uh, to get the best price for us because we deliver an experience to our clients. We want our clients to have an experience with us that, uh, um, it’s about, hey, how do we, how do we help our suppliers level up? How do we train them about, um, the type of experience we want to deliver and make sure that that’s, that’s aligning, and so, I’ll call it, uh, influence instead, uh, instead, because when you can start to influence some of that stuff, um, it’s, it becomes that’s the next, that’s the next level and it all, it’s all getting faster and faster too. So yeah.
MARK WRIGHT 37:05
Well, you’ve alluded to this a couple of times in this interview, Dave, and that is that you kind of struggled to fit into traditional settings, and when we had a conversation a few weeks ago, you talked about being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and, uh, I think that’s just super fascinating that you came to that awareness and that, that you discovered that you needed to work on that, and I’d love for you to share with our audience what that experience was like in terms of. discovering that and also now how you actually kind of harness that, right?
DAVE YOUNG 37:37
Yeah. Cuz it can, you can turn it into a superpower, um, once you understand yourself a little bit more. For me, this sort of all came together. Like I always knew that I was, uh, you would’ve, back in the day, you would’ve called me a dreamer. Now it’s, it’s a, it’s a visionary, right? It’s a, it’s somebody who has lots of ideas and, uh, is, you know, and does some of them and is successful, but has a lot that they either don’t do or some that they do and don’t, don’t work out. Um, but, you know, I, I recognize that in myself early on and I had a hard time, uh, staying excited or passionate about a purpose or a career. I just was, and like I said, when I would go and work for a company, I found it to be so stifling it, there wasn’t that creative outlet that I needed. There wasn’t the opportunity to, to grow and, um, imagine and create a different future. So, I started to develop what I called the visionary’s curse, which is these feelings of, uh, delusion where people tell you all the time, you know, and you hear all your li your whole life, you know, you need to work on this particular thing. You’re not good at this, you need to work at it, and it’s like,
MARK WRIGHT 38:57
I’ve heard that.
DAVE YOUNG 38:58
Yeah, exactly, right? And it’s like you need to, you know, uh, and I think about this with, when it was sales versus operations, the operations people would say, well, you need to get better at operations. And I’m like, why would you guys want me anywhere near operations like. Why would I focus on that? But I guess I have to. So, you would, and then you’re, so you end up suffering through something that you’re not good at, you don’t like, and you, you have all this negative energy but, um, so, so you start to feel like, you start to question yourself too and say, well, why am I not, why am I not doing more of these things? Uh, had a really interesting interaction with, uh, one of my brothers who I said, hey, like I was telling him about, I got this idea and I started telling him about it, and he turned to me and said, stop right there. I don’t want to hear about something else you’re not gonna do, and I was like, okay, reality check, and I started thinking more and more about this, and I actually had already started thinking about, well, why, why is this happening to me? And I, a combination of things came together. It was EOS traction and learning about the roles of the integrator and the visionary and why they were different and why they were both important, and I went, wow, that’s me, and this is what, these are all the things that I’m not good at, and people are telling me all the time I should fix them, and you start to realize, wow, we’re conditioned to believe this, and that society really values the doer far more than the seer or the creator, and so, you start to feel like you, you start to feel like you don’t fit in. I call it like the land of misfit toys and, you know, um, anyway, uh,
MARK WRIGHT 40:43
And Dave explain EOS. that’s from the book. From Gene, Gene Lipman, right?
DAVE YOUNG 40:57
Yeah. That’s the entrepreneurial operating system. So, thanks for slowing me down there. Um, yeah, no, that’s something. Um, and, and it is a, a business operating system for entrepreneurs, probably the most notable one. Amazing tool for structuring your business, creating, uh, the right cadence with which to hold your meetings. Helping teammates understand each other, what they should be doing, staying in their lane and really just brings, reduces some of the chaos that can creep into, or that usually takes over, uh, an entrepreneur’s, uh, life. So highly recommend that, and the, and the look at the visionary and the integrator, how they both need each other. So that was happening. I read the book Who Not How by, uh, Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy. This was happening as part of my journey and then instantly reached out and, and signed up for coaching with, um, with, uh, Strategic Coach. Took a Kolbe test. I had forgotten that I had taken one 15 years before, ironically, I had the, nearly the same score, one number off, and my Kolbe score indicated that I was, uh, an innovator, visionary. I had had that type of mindset and that’s where I should be spending my energy. I was okay on fact finding lower on follow through and on implementation. I was pure vision, like I did not want to mess with stuff for, for too long, nd when I think about, you know, my score versus, which is a two on the, uh, in the implementer side versus somebody who’s like a nine or 10, the opposite of that is somebody who would, who loves like building a ship in a bottle. Like for me, like you would be hard pressed to find something more painful for me to do than, than that type.
MARK WRIGHT 42:58
What’s your overall Kolbe Score?
DAVE YOUNG 43:00
My overall score is a four, three ten two. So, I’m a very, super quick start, uh, innovator. So, and fairly low on fact finder and, and follow through, but, but not useless. Uh, in, in those, so that I took my Clifton strengths, uh, the strengths finder score. Um, and that was pretty interesting too because there’s 34 different, uh, I think it’s like 34 different strengths that we all have, and it ranks them, and then it tells you, it shows you that you know, you should be, here’s your top five and don’t do anything that’s not in your top 10. So that said that, you know, my, my top five were strategy, ideation, futurism, positivity, and input. So, four of the first five were all around strategy and envisioning, ironically, the next five were all around influence. So, you start to see that this is a, this is a person who has all these big ideas, needs to combine that with some influence. Otherwise, they won’t be able to talk anybody into doing any of this stuff with them. So, uh, we got to, um, you know, it was my, one of my business partners in Alair who had brought EOS into our business, and Alair is now using it across the board with all, all of the offices. It’s just such a, and the senior leadership team, it’s just such a great platform but going through this discovery and learning about what I felt was the visionary’s curse and the pressure that I was putting on myself or how I was feeling about that and how I was viewed. I then looked at, well, what’s the implementer’s curse? What does that look like? And that’s somebody who’s commoditized, and they don’t get to follow a meaningful mission, or they, they get pigeonholed doing this hard grunt work, uh, where they don’t ever get to see the real fruits of their, of their value, and they have a life of no purpose. Uh, you know, the visionary runs the risk of a life with no direction at all and don’t, doesn’t get anywhere but the opposite is somebody working their brains out or working their guts out and never being satisfied either. So, where all this stuff ca comes together, uh, and is when you understand the different types of relationships, when you understand the different Kolbe scores but I didn’t get there until I understood about myself and my advice to anybody else is go dig into who you are, how you’re wired, you know, unlearn a whole bunch of stuff. Just, and just figure out like, hey, what am I, what am I good at? What do I love to do? Where do I find my energy? Where do I gravitate, uh, towards and get some of these scores to help you with it. Uh, and then when you do, when you’re with your team or you’re developing a team, start to look at how those, how those personas interact with each other. Uh, you know, and by that, I mean, uh, I mean how people like to spend their energy and, uh, uh, put forth their efforts and apply towards that purpose or that mission. Uh, because you, you’ll have something different, which is core values. I mean, you wanna make sure that as humans, you’re wired with the same level of, uh, goodness or, uh, passions about certain things but we’re talking about how, how you communicate the type of energy that you, um, that is appealing to you and all, all that sort of stuff that you, that you need to explore with your team and I’ve been able to, uh, we went and did some of the Kolbe team testing and I was fortunate that we had pretty much nailed it down. Pretty good is what the test came back. We had all, all bases, uh, nearly all bases covered but to go through that with your team and then to be able to have communication where, one teammate says, oh, Dave, don’t do that. You hate doing that kind of stuff. I’ll take that or I, I see something that’s, you know, in my lane and that got put on their plate, and you know, you take that, uh, from them.
MARK WRIGHT 47:39
So, I’m laughing Dave, because you know, my boss, Dan Rogers and I literally have been in meetings where someone floated an idea and said, Mark, could you do that? And Dan jumps in and says, that is the last thing that Mark should do, and because he knows what my strengths are and he knows what my weaknesses are, and he, he’s like, that would be a complete waste of time. Our time and his time.
DAVE YOUNG 47:59
Right, and that’s a great, I mean, it’s such a great leadership move too, right? And one of the hallmarks of a great leader is the ability to accept leadership and to have everybody on the team leading each other, and that’s kind of where you can get to when you all have this mutual understanding and you know, the things. To value about each other and, you know, the things, this situation not to put, uh, each other in. So, what you end up with is this team who are for the large part, I mean, you, you can never get it a hundred percent dialed in where, you know, that’s rainbows and unicorns territory there but, uh, where to the best of your ability, you’re, you’re dialed right in on stuff that you like and that you’re good at, and that just creates so much momentum, so much allegiance and loyalty within your, um, within your team, and then spectacular results. So, you know, it feels way more freeing than being a burden or being commoditized or being held back.
MARK WRIGHT 49:02
So, I hope you’re okay with me sharing this part of it, Dave, but you were diagnosed with ADHD and then you are taking a prescription, and you told me when we talked a few weeks ago, it was like a light bulb went on when you, when you got dialed in, and I’d love to know more about this because, uh, I’m considering getting tested. I know a bunch of people who, who are adults who are considering getting tested for ADHD, and I just think yours is such a successful.
DAVE YOUNG 49:25
Sure, thanks. Yeah. So, um, so they, the same brother that, uh, had said to me, uh, please don’t tell me about something you’re not gonna do. Uh, I also came to me one day and said, I want you to fill this out. I got, I, I want to, I want to survey you. Can I survey you? He, he didn’t say fill this out. He said, survey me, and so, we went and, uh, he read through the questions, I gave my answers and I said, what, what’s this all about? And he said, well, I just got, uh, diagnosed with ADHD and every time I looked at it, like everything that I’ve read, it’s, it’s you, and I’m like, and that’s what that thing was, and he says, yeah, and you’re, you’re like, your answers were even worse than mine, dude. Uh, so I’m like, well, alright, so what do, what do I do about it? And so, uh, he shared with me his story, and so, I’m gonna share mine here now for, um, for you guys too. I went to the doctor and said, hey, here’s these, uh, you know, here’s the, here’s the results. I kind of like, I didn’t want to go through all kinds of extra tests and everything like that. I, um, I ended up, you know, sharing this information, kind of talking my way into like, can’t we just settle this right here and no more, no more stuff? Like, and if it doesn’t work, we’ll, we’ll stop, and he felt comfortable doing that. So, I ended up, um, you know, for the first time in my life, I, I had no idea that I had ADHD and you, you don’t think about it until you do one of those, do one of those tests. So, I got a prescription for Vyvanse and still on it. It’s funny because I took one today and it wears off for me. It wears off around about five minutes before we started talking. So, everybody who’s listening goes that guy.
MARK WRIGHT 51:24
So that explains it.
DAVE YOUNG 51:25
Guy is full. He, yeah, he did take his, uh, his, his Vyvanse today. I didn’t take my lunchtime kicker, but, um, what a difference it was for me because, uh, and it only took me a couple days. The, the, the first couple days it was like, um, I felt like I had had a whole bunch of caffeine. I felt, um, like I felt a bit of a buzzing, but my mind was really, really switched on, and that buzzing might have been some sort of feedback or getting used to the idea, but within, you know, another couple days after that, I was able to focus with much more clarity. Um, I stopped forgetting some of the things that I would, you know, uh, forget. Like you would turn on the sink and then go, you know, oh, go grab something and come back in the sink still running, and you’re like, am I getting, no, that’s what 80-year-olds do and why they can’t have an apartment by themselves, right? That’s not, that’s not me. Like why? Um, and I,
MARK WRIGHT 52:32
So, Dave, I’m that guy that puts stuff on top of the car. Well, I’m loading the car and forgets the stuff is on top of the car, and I’m driving down the freeway and I hear a noise and I look in the rear view. Oh, there, there that, there that is. It’s on the freeway now. It’s, and my family’s just like, ugh. I’m glad I’ve not allowed.
DAVE YOUNG 52:52
It can happen. Remind me, I have a Starbucks Cup story for you at some point. Um, we can, we can circle back to,
MARK WRIGHT 53:00
You could tell it now if you want.
DAVE YOUNG 53:01
Well, one of the best advertising or like marketing, uh, things I have ever seen, this was a glider pilot in Arizona. He had like an really old station wagon, um, that looked almost like the Ghostbusters ambulance, like that, that sort of vintage maybe, maybe five years newer than that, and we were talking to him and, and, uh, he was just getting into his car and about to pull away, and we’re like, whoa, whoa, dude, you forgot your, uh, your coffee, and he said, I just wanted to prove something to you there, and he’s like, whoa. What? He’s like, watch people’s reaction when they, when you, they think that you have done something like that. Now he had a Starbucks cup and he had glued it down, and so, people would come up to him, roll their window down and, and he would roll his window down and they would say, hey, you got a, you got a thing there? And he would say, oh, you know what? Thanks for being so cool to mention that. Here’s my business card, and then he would drive off with the thing there and people would look at him and like, it was the weirdest thing because you felt compelled as a good human to say something. Your next reaction was to roll your window down and he would roll his down and then there was an exchange. So really interesting uh, I idea there. So. The Vyvanse stuff and, and discovering ADHD um, kind of leads into another story that you and I have talked about. Um, I have an interest in writing, read a lot of books as a kid, 50, 60 novels during the school year alone, plus whatever I read, uh, during the summer, and I loved to write, and I, um, right as the, about the time I was, uh, had met my wife, right around the same time, I had had, uh, a buddy driving up to the lake say something to me in the car, and instantly with clarity, a movie went through my head, and by the time we got up to the lake, which was only in a moment, another hour from where it happened, uh, I had been talking his ear off. I had seen ready to go. And all weekend I just kept churning it, churning it, churning it in my head, and so Monday morning back to Toronto, hadn’t downloaded screenwriting software. I think I got it on a CD. I also downloaded, uh, a script because I thought if I’m gonna write a, if I’m gonna write a movie, I better read a script. So, I downloaded, get Shorty to see what a script looked like, and, uh, that later that night, I just started typing and seven weeks later I had a full feature length, you know, script done. Uh, and I thought, wow, this is fun, and I’ve had more ideas just emerging from my head, and I sat down and started writing more of them, and same time, I’ve just met this great new girl and near the end of the summer, I submit this to Francis Ford Coppola’s screenwriting competition, and instantly kind of forgot about it, because couple months prior to that, I didn’t even know what, a script hadn’t even read one, right? So, what are, what are the chances? So anyway, Terry Lynn and I are hitting it off. Well, next thing you know, we’re engaged. I’ve landed at one of those big corporate jobs that I’ve talked with you about here, and you know, the idea of being a movie writer, you know, taking a back seat and you know, next it’s kids family. Like that’s, that’s in the rear view, Dave. Like all your life, you’re told no, you gotta do the responsible thing. You can’t, you can’t, you know, you can’t go after that. So anyway, I just thought, all right, it’s in the rear view. Well, I got an email, uh, I’m at my desk and, you know, uh, lo and behold, I’ve made the quarter finals, which I thought was amazing considering, and, uh, but anyway, not, it wasn’t like I won, it wasn’t compelling enough to say, hey, I’m giving up this, this dream here. Um, honey, we’re going to California. It wasn’t anything like that but what came from it was the, um, my wife shared, my wife, Terry Lynn, shared that with our, I’ve got three teenage daughters now. They weren’t all quite teenagers at the time. This happened a few years ago, but they didn’t know about any of this, and they were talking about movies, and Terry Lynn said, well, do you know, do you know that dad’s written movies? And they’re like, you have? And I’m like, hold on. I haven’t written movies, I’ve written scripts, and that’s what gets turned into a movie with a whole lot of work, and they said, well, what kind? And so, I told them about, I told them about. Uh, one of the movies, and then I had some other movie ideas and I, I used to love telling them stories and making up stories for them. So, they said, dad, dad, will you, will you write a movie for us? And I’m like, wow, absolutely. What kind of movie do you want? And they’re, I’m thinking just not that, and sure enough, they said, we want a horror. So, a horror movie. It’s like, I’m this, I, I’m positivity, you know, super visual and creative. I do not want any of that stuff in my head, right? Like, if it’s a real psycho thriller, that’s a real thinker. Like Silence of the Lambs, yes. Anything slasher, no. They want, it’s gotta be set in a school. It’s gotta be kids. It’s gotta be, uh, what do you wanna have in it? Then you’re like, we want payback, and I’m like, because they were at the age where it was like payback was a good thing, right? So, I said, okay, what the heck? And, I asked three, maybe four questions, and then again, movie right through my head. So, I didn’t go get the screenwriting software or anything like that out. What we did is when we would go on car trips, I would tell a bit more of it. Uh, I would tell pieces and it got to the point where, uh, my daughter for her 15th birthday said, dad, for my birthday, I have four friends coming over. Well, you have dinner with us and tell the Joey Friesen story, tell the movie story. So, for her 15th birthday, we sat down. It took about an hour and 10 or an hour and 15 minutes to tell it from start to finish and never have I had an audience so entranced and engaged and waiting for what I was going to say next. It was so much fun, and Ava just prayed on the timing. Uh, she just leveraged that timing so well. She said, dad, I know you said you’re gonna do it, but now it’s my birthday. You have to promise me that you’re gonna try and get this, get this movie made. So, what am I gonna say? So, yeah, and I’m filled with all this adrenaline. I have a great time telling the story, and it’s about the same time that I’m, you know, learning about ADHD. Why haven’t I, you know, I’m, it’s, it’s Covid I am writing bits and pieces here and there. I’m not, don’t feel like I’m committed, don’t, don’t feel like I can focus on it, and, uh, I get my diagnosis. I take my medication and around the same time, I have a collaboration call with, um, another entrepreneur meeting him for the very first time, and he just asks, what’s something, you know, unusual or something fun that most people wouldn’t know you’re working on? And so, I shared, you know, the movie and some of that, some of that story, and he said, will you tell it to me? And I spent the next hour in 20 minutes. It went dark. We went through it. He was emotional, he shared with me one of the themes of the movie, um, one of the themes of the movie is teenage suicide and teenage depression. So, and he had been personally affected by this with family members and friends of, uh, family before. So, uh, it was, it was a really inspiring conversation. And, uh, a few days later I woke up in the morning and I’m like, everything was kicking in. Everything was firing. I was in the zone and in two, basically two days. So, over the Christmas holidays, I wrote a 10,000-word treatment, uh, of the, of, of the story from which a script could be, uh, could be developed. So, it, it was just, it. I, more and more I’ve been having moments where I can really get a lot done in a focused, in a very, very focused way and, uh, stay on track and I do things to completion. Whereas before, I would have 50 things started. Now I only have 10 started, so I’m not all the way there yet, but it’s definitely, uh, definitely progress. So, if I were to sum that up, uh, combine all of those things or many of the things that we’ve talked about, it goes back to, hey, take a good look at yourself, and it could be how you’re, uh, it, it could be how you’re, uh, you’re wired in terms of your thinking and thought patterns. It could be, uh, are you a visionary? Are you an integrator? What’s important to you? What are you passionate about? Where should you be spending your energy? Really, really dig into that because it’s been way more fun for me having experienced that and having more, more perc a larger percentage of my time like that and, and getting rid of the, uh, those other elements.
MARK WRIGHT 01:03:38
Well, Dave, this has been just so much fun talking with you and learning from you, and I’m super inspired, and if folks want to hear more about the podcast, it’s called Builder Nuggets podcast, and it’s, uh, super interesting if for those folks in the building industry. Um, thank you, Dave. I just really appreciate your example and your honesty, and I don’t think it’s a mistake that you’re as successful as you are because, uh, of all the things that you stand for and just how you show up in life. Man, this has been so much fun.
DAVE YOUNG 01:04:05
Hah Thanks. Well, you know what? It’s, it’s just such a, it’s so, such a, a freedom. I, I call it freedom of relationship with yourself. Um, you know, Dan Sullivan, who we talked about earlier, um, in Strategic Coach and he talks about the four freedoms and how important freedom of relationship is and who you let into your life, and I just took another look at it as I was going through this and said, well, what about freedom of relationship with yourself, and, um, uh, I hope, I hope that people do dig in, dig into it, uh, cuz it, it’s really rewarding and, and fun to, uh, discover and, and a big relief to just be yourself and be surrounded by people who like, get it and appreciate it and like, and like that. Um, so that’s, that’s where good stuff happens when you get into those collaborations. It’s been a fun, uh, it’s been a fun conversation too. We, we covered a lot of ground on a lot of different weird and, uh, wacky things, so, you know, uh, lots of other adventures coming up too. So, we’ll have to reconnect again sometime, and yeah, and thanks for mentioning Builder Nuggets. We have a lot of people tell us that it, it should have been called Business Nuggets, uh, because it’s really relatable to any, um, small, uh, small business, and there’s literally something for any, for every bit of business owner in there but that’s, you know, we didn’t even go down that road. I did not wanna do a podcast, I mean, I said, no way are we doing this, doing this thing, and now we’ve got, you know, it’s a couple years ago and it’s been fun.
MARK WRIGHT 01:05:40
So, so many great topics.
DAVE YOUNG 01:05:40
We’ll have to have another, we’ll have to have another, we’ll have to have another chat, Mark. I look forward to, to doing this again when we got, uh, when we got more time.
MARK WRIGHT 01:05:48
And we’ll link to all your stuff in the show notes, Dave.
DAVE YOUNG 01:05:50
Yeah, thanks, and, um, yeah, keep me posted on your, uh, personal, you know, you can’t have me, uh, put me up here on, in the spotlight and ask all those questions and then not follow up and tell me how things worked out for you, okay?
MARK WRIGHT 01:06:03
I will, I will keep in touch my friend. Take care.
DAVE YOUNG 01:06:05
All right, see ya.
MARK WRIGHT 01:06:07
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING part of the WORKP2P Family. New episodes drop every Monday, and if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING where we are winning the game of work.
