The Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) is known in business circles as one of the most successful coaching brands in the world, but it’s not just about business; it’s about life.
Entrepreneur Gino Wickman founded EOS Worldwide to help business owners structure and run their companies in a way that leads to success in all areas of their lives.
Kelly Knight joined the company eight years ago as the first full-time employee. Today, she is the company’s president and integrator. Under Kelly’s leadership, EOS has grown exponentially – from 100 to 700 implementors (coaches), with 200,000 businesses running on their system.
So, what is EOS’s secret sauce? Host Mark Wright engages Knight in a wide-ranging conversation that covers goal setting, accountability, life lessons from her dad, and so much more.
One of the most refreshing things about Knight is her philosophy about business and life. She says it’s about being a light in the world and loving the people in your life, at home and work.
We hope this episode gets you thinking about your operating systems because the right one can take you and your business to unimaginable heights.
Resources from the episode:
- Connect with Kelly Knight on LinkedIn.
- In April 2024, Knight and two co-authors (CJ DuBe’ and Mark O’Donnell) will release “People: Dare to Build an Intentional Culture,” a book about having the courage to dare to build an intentional culture. You can pre-order your copy here.
- EOS and their team helps business leaders achieve rapid growth and a more balanced life through their simple concepts and tools. Learn more about EOS here.
- In this episode, Knight recommends Gino Wickman’s book, “Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business.” You can buy a copy here.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Kelly Knight and Mark Wright
KELLY KNIGHT 00:00
That’s kind of the really cool thing, is that when implementers work with leadership teams, they start off with this path to helping create clarity around vision and execution. What ends up happening over, sometimes it’s a couple years of working with a team, is that they’re transforming the human energy of how people love to work together. How people love to just be, uh, and enjoy the work, rather than just be in the work and it’s so tough.
MARK WRIGHT 00:32
This is the BEATS WORKING Show. We’re on a mission to redeem work the word the place and the way. I’m your host Mark Wight. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to BEATS WORKING winning the game of work on the show this week the entrepreneurial operating system, EOS is known in business circles as one of the most successful coaching brands in the world, but I found out it’s not just about business It’s about life. EOS was founded by entrepreneur Gino Wickman to help business owners of small and medium sized businesses structure and run their companies in a way that leads to success in all areas of their lives. Kelly Knight joined the company eight years ago as the first full time employee. Today she’s the company’s president and integrator. In the EOS world there are basically two top leaders at any company. There’s a visionary and there’s an integrator, basically a chief operating officer. So, under Kelly’s leadership, EOS has grown exponentially from 100 to 700 implementers or coaches. And today, 200,000 businesses run on the entrepreneurial operating system. So, what is EOS’s secret sauce? I engage Kelly Knight in a wide-ranging conversation. We cover setting goals, accountability, even some lessons from her dad, and so much more. I’ll tell you though, the refreshing part is how simple Kelly Knight’s business and life philosophy is. She says it’s about being light in the world and love to the people in your life, at home, and at work. I hope this episode gets you thinking about what your operating system is. Because the right one can take you and your business to unimaginable heights. Kelly Knight, president and integrator of EOS Worldwide. Welcome to the BEATS WORKING podcast. It’s so good to have you here.
KELLY KNIGHT 02:40
Mark, it is so great to be here. Thank you for having me.
MARK WRIGHT 02:43
Well, one of the reasons that I’ve been so looking forward to having you on the podcast, Kelly, is that EOS, I think is for people not in the hardcore business community, nobody knows who EOS is, but people who are serious business owners and entrepreneurs, they all know EOS and, in its ability, to transform people and businesses. This is such an exciting company, such an exciting process that you take companies through. So, looking forward to that. Kelly, let me start just by, let’s say you’re in an elevator and somebody asks you, what do you do for a living? And you say EOS and they like turn their head and they don’t know what you’re talking about. Just for the person who may not have heard about EOS. What is it?
KELLY KNIGHT 03:27
So, EOS stands for Entrepreneurial Operating System and really Mark, what it is, is a simple practical set of tools and a process in a system for helping entrepreneurs get everything they want from their business and live their ideal lives.
MARK WRIGHT 03:42
So, it’s coaching, coaching, uh, it’s a, it’s a business as well. Explain, break that down.
KELLY KNIGHT 03:48
Sure. It’s broken down into three primary components. We have books that, uh, the flagship book is called traction written by Gino Wickman, the founder creator of All Things EOS. We also have what’s called EOS implementers, and those are business coaches that meet with entrepreneurs and their leadership teams and really take them through that simple, practical set of tools, process, system, and model to help them get what they want from their business. And from there, those leadership teams then take EOS all the way through their business is the goal so that they can truly, uh, focus on the business, working on the business in a more simple, easy way to get the results that they’re looking for. And then last and not least is an online platform. So, our website, we’ve got something called Basecamp that has all of the tools that are available for download and videos and all kinds of great, amazing content that really kind of curates the best of what EOS is to help entrepreneurs and leadership teams.
MARK WRIGHT 04:46
So, Kelly, tell me, when somebody comes to EOS and they own a business, where do you start?
KELLY KNIGHT 04:53
So, we really start by helping teams define their vision. Uh, that starts, uh, very early on is really where do you want to go as an organization? And from there, it’s creating something that’s called a VTO. That stands for Vision Traction Organizer. And it’s eight simple questions that help entrepreneurs and leadership teams really define what their vision is and how they’ll get there. Starting with core values, core focus, that’s the thing that you’re most passionate about, passion, purpose, cause, and mission. Uh, that also leads to a core target, which is your BHAG, your bigger than life goal that you may be wanting to achieve. And when is that, what is it that you’re defining that to be? It’s your marketing strategy and your three-year picture. And then on the flip side is the traction side. That’s how you’re going to get there. And that’s your one-year goals, your quarterly rocks as Stephen Covey would have said, and then also the issues list. So, it’s this really super simple document that helps channel human energy around where you’re going as an organization. And then there’s a tremendous amount of tools and a process that then helps you to really work that plan over time. And, um, you know, you’ll notice that a lot of it is based upon human energy. So, when we say that, we mean when we talk to leadership teams, they’re often very frustrated. Entrepreneurs have hit the ceiling. They’re not sure where to go next. And so, EOS really kind of distills everything, clarifies it down to the most essential components so that a team can focus on that and run a better business. That’s really what EOS does. And from personal experience coming into EOS, I was in the financial services industry. So, I did not come from this world. This was all very new to me. Um, I had not run a business on EOS. I had not been an EOS implementer, hadn’t even read Traction up until the time that I interviewed for the role of integrator. Um, and, but I, I, I went through the process. It’s the most amazing role that I’ve ever had. And the question I get asked most often is what’s the unexpected great of being the integrator or running EOS worldwide. And it’s that I did understand how the tools helped entrepreneurs get what they want from their business. But the unexpected great is how it changes people’s lives for the better. So really interesting ways that that plays itself out, but fundamentally helping teams to learn how to um, solve issues, what we call IDS, to identify, discuss, and solve problems and issues better together. So, while we’ve been communicating since we were babbling as babies, somehow, even as adults, the thing that we struggle with most is communication. And so, when you learn how to communicate really well amongst each other, In the work that we do day in and day out running our businesses, that also then translates to at home. I feel like personally, I’m a better wife, a better mother, a better friend, a better daughter, uh, a better boss as a result of EOS. Um, and we’ll jokingly, but not jokingly say that when I came here, I thought I was a pretty good manager leader. And I realized I got schooled up pretty quickly that that really wasn’t as true as I had hoped it was. So that’s kind of the really cool thing is that when implementers work with leadership teams, they start off with this path to helping create clarity around vision and execution. What ends up happening over, sometimes it’s a couple of years of working with the team is that they’re, they’re transforming the human energy of how people love to work together, how people love to just be, uh, and enjoy the work rather than just be in the work. And it’s so tough, you know, so, um, you know, in a spirit of the audience that we’re talking to, it’s how do we make work loving the work? How do we get to the point where we’d love the work and we’re not just doing the work we’re in the being rather than the doing. And I think that’s what EOS really helps entrepreneurs and teams to do.
MARK WRIGHT 08:49
What you just did is define our mission and that is to redeem work. So, it’s so cool that EOS actually does that. As you were talking, Kelly, it made me think that a lot of business consulting companies will come in and they’ll kind of look at the, you know, they’ll look at the financial documents, they’ll look at the business model, they’ll look at what, what the business does. And then they’ll say, well, why don’t you try doing this? And it’s, it’s very focused and it’s not sort of global and I don’t think that it touches on, you know, the happiness and well-being of the owner of the business outside of work and it sounds like EOS really is aware of the business owner and the manager’s like goals, life goals as, as human beings, not just how do we optimize the business, right?
KELLY KNIGHT 09:36
That’s right. We actually have a phrase for that, and it’s called the EOS life. It’s actually coined by Don Tenney, who was Gino Wickman’s business partner. So, Gino Wickman is the visionary creator of all things EOS, CEO in some circles might call it that. And his business partner was Don Tenney. Very different humans, by the way, Don Tenney, just very, very different, more, um, not as outgoing as maybe Gino is, but the integrator, the original integrator of EOS. And so, he coined the EOS life as five things. And that is doing what you love with people you love. Making a huge difference, being compensated appropriately with time for other passions. And so, I feel like that really encapsulates everything that EOS ultimately ends up becoming to the world. Uh, and it’s not just for the entrepreneur or just for leadership team members, it’s really for everyone ultimately, um, when done the right way. So, it’s the simplicity of how do you get there by using a practical, simple set of tools and a process. But the kind of the secret piece to it is the cherry on top. And that’s the EOS life. And that’s the magic that you don’t know. And you can’t fully appreciate until you’ve been through the process. It’s like this journey of mastery and journey that never ends. And just getting a little bit closer to achieving you know, those five components of the EOS life that help you to live a better life at work and at home, wherever it is that you’re where you are, that you feel and believe that that’s possible. And Gina will say in the book, the EOS life, there’s actually a whole other book dedicated to this. He will say, the thing is, as most people don’t believe they deserve it. So, the key is that you believing that you deserve those five things. And how do you get just a little closer every quarter, every month, every day, every year. How do you measure?
MARK WRIGHT 11:28
There’s such wisdom to that because, I mean, what’s the point of starting a business if it doesn’t lead to success and happiness and fulfillment? And it seems like so many business owners get pulled into the drudgery and the work and the hours and pretty soon they’re working 12, 16-hour days. They have no time with their families and it’s like, what’s, what’s the point of that lifestyle?
KELLY KNIGHT 11:51
That’s right. Well, no entrepreneur said ever, I want to start this business so that I can live in pain and misery and my team can too, right? Nobody would say that, but yeah, that can accidentally happen. We are passionate about something that we believe we can serve the world with. We start building an organization, um, sometimes suffering from warm body syndrome where we’re bringing in Uncle Harry and Cousin Susie because that’s who’s in our universe to start the company and that works for a little while, but then soon as organizations grow through grit and determination, they also hit a wall and so it can be very frustrating and so entrepreneurs get stuck sometimes and just need a little bit of help to get unstuck and get refocused to help them reach the goals that they want to reach. And that’s what, you know, we will say, we happen to love our own operating system, but the key is, is as an entrepreneur, just pick one. That’s the EOS creed. Pick an operating system, just one, and stick with it. There’s lots of others out there in the world, so you just have to find the one that’s the the right fit for you and your team, and then stick with it. But the consistency of running an organization on an operating system yields far greater results and predictability than not running on one. And so, myself, I had been in business for 18 years, had never even heard of an operating system like this, had never, had sort of curated my own, cobbled it together, and what a blessing to come into EOS and see it this way because it was far better than anything I had ever created and much more efficient. I wish that I had seen that 15 years before. Um, so that’s kind of our mission is to be this beacon of light to say, look, it is, there is an easier path, a better way to do the work that you love and to make a bigger, greater impact through your work by running on an operating system that just helps that glide easier than it would otherwise.
MARK WRIGHT 13:47
Kelly, when we talked a couple of months ago, you said the secret sauce of EOS. And just as we’ve been talking now, you said it’s not about business, it’s about life. And you have a story about two brothers that you say really illuminates that point.
KELLY KNIGHT 14:00
That’s right. Well, I was at a quarterly meeting where implementers get together. And I was talking to one of them and asked, how’d your quarter go? What was the best thing that happened with the client? And this implementer said, oh, I’ve got the best story. There were these two brothers in a family business ready to go under close up shop sort of as a last-ditch effort. They had hired me to be their EOS implementer. So, I come in and I start working with them and I just start doing EOS. And a year later, get together for their annual meeting and not only was the company not going under, but it was thriving at that point and making money and back on track and everybody’s in working in harmony with one another solving issues while achieving targets and I say, oh, this is great. That’s fantastic news and he said no, no That wasn’t the best part. The best part was that not only had that been true, but that this family who had been broken for so long had enjoyed Thanksgiving dinner for the first time in a decade and, and that, you know, is the kind of thing that really gets me emotional because it’s the true impact, the legs and the reach of EOS that go far beyond, you know, what’s actually taught by an implementer or in a downloadable tool, that’s really life changing stuff where families are made whole. And, uh, so that’s pretty rewarding to be a little tiny piece of that.
MARK WRIGHT 15:23
That’s such a great story. I love it. That’s worth more than any amount of money that, that a business makes just to have a moment like that. Um, tell me a little bit more, Kelly, about the, you, you grew a financial services, uh, industry business and, and then sold it. You had a lot of success before you even joined EOS. I’d love to know what you credit that to and what lessons did you learn during that time in your life?
KELLY KNIGHT 15:48
Absolutely. So, I spent 18 years in the financial services industry, originally sort of coming out of college and becoming a financial advisor and trying some different things. But really where I found a lot of my growth occurred is when I did a startup in Newport Beach, California for a company called United Capital and it was a registered, RIA manage money business. And this was started from the ground up. And, um, so quite literally, it’s showing up with a backpack and a folding chair. That’s how startup that startup was. And, uh, what was learned through that journey was the role of curiosity and the role of simply just being open to learning and doing things differently all the time. Because of course, you’re almost in a laboratory pulling levers and trying different things to figure out how we’re going to build a business based off of an idea that that we had. And so, you know, while my expertise at the time might have been in one area of advisory operations, we were actually building a technology platform. And because of that interest, I had gone and knocked on the door of the CTO and the leader there and said, I am really interested in seeing how we can collaborate on some things. Let’s go try it. And out of that was born some really cool innovations and, but more importantly, just amazing collaboration and outcomes that wouldn’t have occurred had we not worked on things together. So, it was doing a startup generally is one of the best things that I’ve ever experienced because it just requires an amazing amount of ingenuity, open mindedness, uh, learner profile, uh, coping, uh, having grit and resilience when things don’t work and don’t go your way and how to recover from that. And I think that that particular, um, journey that I had had reframed my thinking, sort of like what Dan Sullivan now calls in his book, 10x is easier than 2x. If you’ve not read it, it’s a really great read, but it’s all about how do you 10x your impact and results in the world versus the 2x kind of growth that we all do, sort of naturally and organically if we really don’t change a whole heck of a lot. And that’s what that experience really taught me, and that I brought forward is to always just be open to those possibilities, and that really none of any of that is possible without putting people first. So it’s probably at the end of the day, the culmination is two things, the curiosity and the learner profile and also putting people first above all else, um, because it’s through people that change really occurs until, until there’s a, and hopefully there isn’t a time in the world when AI completely takes over everything, that there are no people anywhere doing any work there, uh, that so long as people are part of business. Putting people first always pays and rewards most.
MARK WRIGHT 18:40
I’ve heard you say that your father was the first person who showed you how to take an idea and make it real. That’s a pretty profound statement to say about, about a parent. Tell me a little bit about your dad and why you say that.
KELLY KNIGHT 18:52
Oh, he’s, he’s just the neatest guy. He’s turning 82 in January and always been really close to him, but he’s a visionary himself. And so, he sort of by trade was an engineer for General Motors and he would come home at night. And he would have always lots of ideas, carpentry work, or projects that he would be doing around the house. Even fixing the kitchen sink disposal, or whatever it might be. He would get out a notepad. He was a visual teacher. And so, he would write down exactly, like, this is how this works, this is what I’m thinking is going to fix it. And then we would sit and talk about it, and then we would go and do it. So, it was the first real demonstration of someone who had an idea. Visionaries, entrepreneurs in the world and is sort of defining what it is that we’re looking to do. What’s the goal? How, you know, and then how are we going to get there? And then we go out, test, tinker, hone and refine and figure out how to solve that problem, whatever that might be. Whether it’s, you know, we built this enormous bookshelf or again, fixing something in the home. And so that really kind of stuck with me because through repetition of that process, I never really thought of it at the time as a kid. It was just like, oh, this is cool to hang out with my dad. Uh, but ultimately translated into that really my love of working with visionaries and taking a dream or an idea and making it come alive and become reality.
MARK WRIGHT 20:16
Does your dad still do that today? In terms of get out the old sketch pad.
KELLY KNIGHT 20:22
Well, you know, sometimes, although he’s really into pickleball these days, so that’s sort of the base on his days as he’s on the court three hours a day, believe it or not. So not so much anymore, but those are many, many years where he did do that.
MARK WRIGHT 20:34
Oh, that’s fantastic. Um, Kelly, I’d love to explore more about how you set and achieve goals. I think a lot of us in our careers think that simply by securing that next job or getting that promotion is going to somehow automatically lead to achieving the goals that we hope for. But for you, Kelly, how intentional is that process of setting and achieving goals?
KELLY KNIGHT 20:57
Oh, it’s everything. And it’s, it’s ultimately fundamental to EOS, the system. So that’s made it easier for me to capture and harness how to do that. But we’re very intentional about our process every quarter we get together as a leadership team and we’re reviewing really what is the most important thing that we can focus on in the coming quarter that culminates to fulfilling our one-year goal? So every annual We have a set number of three to seven goals for the year and then we chip away at those quarter over quarter through the rock setting to make those come alive. We also are looking at a three-year picture, you know visualizing what the company is meant to look like in three years Part of that is measurables what could be measured in terms of revenue or epita, growth percentages could be the number of members within our community, satisfaction scores, things of that nature, but then also just painting a picture of what it looks like and feels like being a global community. Um, you know, the number of members that we may have in three years. What our platform will look like and who will best serve. And so, when you’re visualizing, helping teams to visualize the three year without getting too detailed, it helps every single one year set of goals to achieve that three years almost magically. Um, and then we have a tech, well, it could be a 10-year target, but it’s ultimately a core target for us. As an example, it’s a million companies running on EOS by 2030. So that’s your big, hairy, audacious goal. That’s the big milestone that everyone’s marching toward. And so, what it paints Mark is this picture of, I know what I’m doing this quarter, those are called rocks. They run 90 days. What I’m doing this quarter helps us to achieve the one-year goals that we have as an organization. And then the one-year goals culminate to hitting our three year. And then the three year helps us hit our, our, uh, core target. So, it’s very linear, um, that doesn’t mean the growth is linear toward that, but it’s very in alignment and very systematic and predictable. And it’s all documented on a two-page simple business plan. So, I, there was a day I had about a 20-to-30-page business plan every year. And that’s been filtered down in EOS. We call that that vision traction organizer I spoke of earlier. And it’s encapsulated right there. And I keep it with me to my left side of me every single day so that I can look at it as a filtering mechanism for how we make decisions so that we don’t get off track with the goal setting that we have. That’s another piece of it is being really ruthless in terms of prioritization and not straying from the goals that you define for yourself.
MARK WRIGHT 23:42
How much growth has happened under your leadership at EOS?
KELLY KNIGHT 23:47
Well, it’s, uh, one way to put it is that I was the very first full-time employee eight years ago.
MARK WRIGHT 23:53
Wow. So, like Jim Whittaker, the mountain climber, was the first, I think he was the first full time employee at REI, the big mountain climbing supply store. So, you’re sort of the Jim Whittaker of EOS, I love it.
KELLY KNIGHT 24:07
Yeah, sort of that. And now today we have over 130 members to our EOS Worldwide team. When I came in, there were about a hundred us implementers or business coaches. We’re now over 700 and there’s 200,000 companies running on EOS today than was the case at the time. So, um, so it’s just been true. It’s been a tremendous amount of growth. We tend to grow about 40 percent per year. I’m very consistent. Um, Jim Collins would call it the 20-mile march. And that just means that it’s the study consistent growth over time that produces and yields great results. So, um, so that’s been really fun. Lots of different things have happened over those eight years, and it’s really just working within what’s happening in the world, in the marketplace, and adjusting for that over time.
MARK WRIGHT 24:55
When we talked a couple months ago, Kelly, you told me that EOS is all about getting the arrows pointing in the same direction. And that really reminded me, I got to know the, uh, the marketing. Uh, guy, for lack of a better term, who was at Nike during the, uh, period of the, when they came up with the Just, Just Do It, uh, slogan. Uh, a guy named Scott Bedbury, he’s from the Seattle area. He had served, um, in marketing at, uh, at Starbucks. And so, I asked him when he spoke to my Rotary Club in Seattle, I said, Scott, what did you tell the people at Nike when you arrived there? It was a fairly well-oiled machine. But what did you tell them that they didn’t already know? And his answer was really interesting. He said, I told them that everything, it’s exactly what you just said about EOS. He said, everything that Nike does has to be pointing toward our goal, who we are as an organization, who we are as a company. So, every product, every, every study, every, you know, uh, advertising, uh, segment. I mean, everything in the company has to go toward that goal. And he said, when, when they got, when they, everybody embraced that idea, it made it a lot easier to just run the business because ou gotta know who you are first and then just get everybody to buy into the idea that that’s the filter, that’s the lens that we have to, that we have to use. So, I’m guessing that when you start to work with, um, you know, company owners in EOS, um, there are probably a lot of companies that are doing a lot of different things. Is that, is that a big part of the process to figure out, hey, we need to stop doing this, this, and that, and just focus on this?
KELLY KNIGHT 26:37
Um, sometimes, absolutely. And EOS, no one knows better than EOS implementers who are directly in the trenches working with these entrepreneurs and leadership teams. But absolutely, it’s really kind of taking a step back, slowing down. You know, there’s the phrase, go slow to go fast. And so, through the process of U.S. implementation, it does take some time. It’s real dedication to slow down a little bit, to think about our thinking essentially, and to think about what it is that we really want for ourselves and to get again. All energy, all arrows pointed in the same direction. So sometimes entrepreneurs are just doing too much. You’re trying to stuff, you know, 10 pounds of material into a five-pound bag, or it was just overwhelmingly too much noise happening to produce the result that you’re looking for. And more, as we know, is not always better. So, it’s having the discipline and the rigor to focus on what’s the most important, the most essentialist things that we can be doing to produce the greatest results, rather than doing more stuff that actually ends up not yielding the results that we’re looking for. So that’s absolutely some things that, uh, implementers will find, and there’s lots of different scenarios. There’s, you know, however many number of issues that ever existed in the business world. But the thing is, is, uh, us tools work a lot like Legos. They fit together to help entrepreneurs wherever you start. It doesn’t matter. We can meet you where you’re at and to take that process step by step to figure out how to best really serve yourself and your own team in a better way. And, um, for some that’s a two-year journey, you know, we try to, we, we have a system that’s designed that we can graduate clients so they can independently work without implementers over a certain period of time. But just as easily, many clients love working with their EOS implementer and it creates an accountability partnership to the results that they’re getting over time too. So, there’s literally a million different scenarios that implementers have started with and where they’ve gone with it. But that’s a little, little bit of an overview.
MARK WRIGHT 28:42
Um, I’d love, you talked about accountability. I’d love to explore that a little bit more as a leader. Talk about what the balance is between accountability and encouragement, because at the end of the day, if the results aren’t there for a business, um, something has to change. Um, can you talk about the difference between accountability and encouragement and how you, how you ride that balance?
KELLY LNIGHT 29:04
Every leader, no matter what seat you sit in, if you have even one person reporting to you, the number one most important thing that you can do is what’s called LMA, and that stands for leadership plus management equals accountability. So, there are certain practices that are required for managers and leaders being able to predict well and systematize and whatnot. And so when we do those things, well, we end up with accountability, meaning that each member of the team has a responsibility to deliver on something could be a number. I, me, I’m responsible for delivering on profitability, um, to the organization, as an example. So, everyone has something that their piece of the puzzle contributes. And when we all do our part and we’re all accountable to the thing that we’re meant to do in our seat within an accountability chart, then we get the results that we’re looking for. So that’s accountability. Um, that’s really keeping people to their word. When I say I’m going to do something and I’m making a commitment. Taking a rock as an example, or I have responsibility or ownership for something that I’m going to do it and do it well to the best of my capability. And we’re going to hold you accountable to that result. And the flip side encouragement is, you know, what we say at EOS is putting the love into it. So countless research and studies show how much people will work for feeling valued and appreciated in the work that they’re doing, sometimes more than the compensation itself. Um, and that’s because people really want to be part of something bigger than themselves, to be mission driven. And so, the encouragement comes in with helping people to fulfill what their life’s journey might be either with inside the organization or outside the organization. We call that loving people in and loving them out. And so, the encouragement is really to be able to, live in two different worlds sometimes as a leader manager. One is we’re helping individuals to follow their passions, their unique ability, as Dan Sullivan might say, was Strategic Coach or their personal core focus. What is it that you’re on this planet to do your God given talent and where can we harness that here within this organization? It’s also paired with what we call the greater good of an organization, and that’s serving every word of that VTO or two-page business plan. And it’s a myth, or a misconception in my opinion, that you can only do one or the other. Many people in business believe you can only, at any one given time, serve the individual, or serve the greater good of the organization when in actuality if you just slow down and look at it, you can do both simultaneously. It’s hard work to do it. It takes courage and you have to dare to enter that to build the culture that you want. But that’s where the magic lies. Um, and so that, that’s the beauty in that process is, you know, with accountability, uh, as a manager, there’s also great responsibility that comes with that to help people get what they want from their journey too. So.
MARK WRIGHT 32:09
That’s, it’s so rare that you hear that word love, um, in a business context in, in America. And it’s so refreshing to hear you say that. One of the early guests on this podcast, Howard Behar, was a former president of Starbucks and helped Howard Schultz grow that company from just a few dozen stores to 15,000 at the time. And now I think they’re, gosh, 25, 30,000 stores now, um, but he said that if your employees don’t love your company, your customers will never love your company. So, the first goal is just to, to create an atmosphere where your employees love, love the company. And it’s, it’s so cool that you’re so, uh, open to using that word. Um, let’s explore that a little bit more, Kelly. Like I think that it’s, it seems like a lot of business, uh, operators these days have a very binary, um, vision of the business that you have to do this and then you get that. And it’s like, you know, there’s such an emphasis on keeping the bottom line down but there’s not that, that focus on creating an atmosphere where people feel loved. When you talk to business owners, like what, what is that conversation? Because I’m guessing some will say, well. How do I do that? I mean, I guess it’s, is it different for every company?
KELLY KNIGHT 33:35
I’m sure it is. You know, uh, actually we, we’ve got a book coming out called People Dare To Build An Intentional Culture coming out April of next year, April, 2024. Um, and that’s written by myself, Mark O’Donnell, my business partner and CJ Dube, an EOS implementer. And all three of us are really passionate about this because building an intentional culture. is the most important thing that you can do, not, not just for the bottom line, but for people. And so, you know, every organization probably is different. Everybody has a culture. Whether you were intentionally developing it or not is a different story. Um, but at the root of it, Mark, we talk about this definition of greater good, and I think this is central to where we’re going with the conversation is greater good to us means every word of the VTO or business plan, multiplied by genuine care and concern, otherwise known as love. Okay. Love is not in a romantic sense here obviously. Love means that in every sense you are helping your people to feel loved, appreciated, cared for, given the resources, the tools, the technology to be successful. And the reason why that equation is a multiplier is that most businesses hopefully have some form of a business plan. But very few of them actually think intentionally about the genuine care and concern component for everybody within their care. And so, there’s a, there’s a multiplying agent to this that when you multiply those two things together, being focused with every word of your business plan, and um, the people, this genuine care and concern that yields the maximum enjoyment of the work that’s being done and actually the bottom-line profitability and results. But ironically, many entrepreneurs, and we can all be guilty of that, is that there’s a sense that it’s a nice to have, oh, it’s nice to have core values, it’s nice to have positive, you know, intentional culture. The reality is that if you want to be great, and have a sustainable business that has any longevity at all, you must put an emphasis on people first and making that culture intentionally good. It should not be command and control where you’re having to dictate to people what’s happening. You can’t have a happy accident where it just happens to fall in place because we know that eventually falls apart too. So intentional culture means that there’s a lot of focus and, uh, impact that’s being created. And you’re, you’re really putting a lot of thought into how you’re going to do it and it takes time. It’s being consistent, it’s hard work, but that is the differentiator. Um, in my experience of 25 years now of being in business is that is really the secret sauce of building great sustainable companies that win. So, if you’re looking for a winning company, a winning culture, that’s kind of the very simple formula that we’ve come up with.
MARK WRIGHT 36:45
I’ve worked with a lot of nonprofits over the years and there’s, well, you know, let’s face it, you, you’re not gonna get rich working in the nonprofit world. And the thing that’s always struck me about the really good nonprofits is they do have that culture, they have that mission and, uh, gosh, they’re just so close as a team and they absolutely love what they do. And it’s, it’s proof that I think that the for-profit world should, should take notice of that. It’s not just about the compensation package that causes people to get out of bed and say, man, I can’t wait to get to work today. It’s, it’s the vision. It’s feeling valued. It’s feeling heard. Um, so it’s so cool to hear you say all those things, Kelly, about what EOS is doing that, um, in your time in business, what do you think is the biggest obstacle that keeps people from reaching their potential?
KELLY KNIGHT 37:35
Well, as an organization, it’s really just not having the right people in the right seats. We call that RPRS at EOS Worldwide. So, when we ask entrepreneurs, what’s the number one thing that prevents you from reaching your goals? They will say people. It’s some form of people issues, right? Not having the right people, not having enough of the right people, not being able to recruit or attract great talent, to retain great talent. It’s some form or flavor of that. Um, and, and that, it kind of furthers the point about people, how instrumental people are. If, if you, if you can’t get the people thing, right, none of the other issues actually matter. So, whether it’s a data issue, a technology issue, a security issue, uh, you know, logistics issue, none of those things matter if you don’t get the people part, right.
MARK WRIGHT 38:22
So, I’m guessing you subscribe to the, uh, unique ability idea that, that we all, even as employees, we should really be tuned into what we’re good at. Um, do you have any advice on the best way to evaluate our own skills? And then how do we, how do we build them? Because I work with some people that are really cool and transparent about this. And, and the conversation sometimes is like, well, don’t ask me to do that. I’m terrible at that. Uh, but I will do this. Um, take us through that, uh, Kelly, in terms of like, know thyself. Someone said that’s the, the, the beginning of, of, uh, all, all knowledge and wisdom is knowing yourself first.
KELLY KNIGHT 39:01
That’s right. We have an exercise that we do, um, at EOS and it’s called Delegate and Elevate in Markets where you start by creating a laundry list. You go back over the last few weeks, and you look at all the activities of the things that you’re doing. Okay, you might look at your calendar, look at your notes, look at your journal, and you’re just making a list of all the things you do. Okay, um, I’m responding to emails, I’m approving invoices, I’m talking to business partners, um, curating collaborations, um, whatever that might be. You create a huge laundry list of all the things that you do. Then you create basically a two-by-two matrix. So, the big square on a sheet of paper in the upper left-hand quadrant are the things that you absolutely love to do. You have so much fun when you’re doing them. You feel like you’re sinking into them. You lose track of time because you just love doing them so much. And you’re really, really good at them. The quadrant just to the right of that are the things that you’re really good at. Might not be quite the unique ability of the one in the left-hand corner, but you’re really darn good at them and you like doing them. Maybe not love, but you like them. Bottom left quadrant are the things that you’re good at. You don’t like to do, and the lower right-hand quadrant are the things that you’re not good at, and you don’t like to do them. That’s the worst possible combination. So, everything that’s below the midline there are those things that can be delegated away to others who may love to do those things. So, the things that I dislike most, other people might love to do those things. That’s their unique ability. Um, and the things that I need to be focusing my attention on should be in that upper left-hand quadrant. So, every quarter, maybe sooner if you can do it, you’re delegating away something from those bottom two quadrants to get just a little bit closer to living in your unique ability all the time. Sometimes that’s delegated to a person, sometimes it’s delegated to a service or automated, and sometimes something just doesn’t need to be done anymore and you make it go away. Um and so that process is what helps. Uh, rather tactically, right, uh, but to walk it out and to see how you can get just a little closer to living in that unique ability.
MARK WRIGHT 41:10
So, let’s talk a little bit more about EOS implementers. Um, these are the coaches, right?
KELLY KNIGHT 41:16
They are business coaches working with entrepreneurs and leadership teams. That’s right.
MARK WRIGHT 41:20
So how are they chosen and really what, what is the secret sauce in that relationship that those people develop?
KELLY KNIGHT 41:27
Well, implementers are everything in our world. They are the, you know, very much the center of our business model. And, uh, just so such the most amazing community I’ve ever been a part of. And I felt like before coming here, I was pretty fortunate to know a lot of great groups, but they’re just amazing humans who they themselves have been entrepreneurs in many cases, or been on leadership teams, maybe built and sold their business and wondered where the next part of their journey might take them. Um, it makes them perfectly well suited to then be an implementer, helping organizations do the exact same thing that they learned how to do off and running on EOS, by the way, um, to achieve their goals and targets. So, we really are seeking others to join our community that look like our existing EOS implementers. So, truth be told, 67 percent of all new implementers that come into EOS are referrals from our existing EOS implementers. And that’s how we find them most often. Um, we do happen to run into some in different ponds that meet kind of the requirements of what we’re looking for, which are, are people that have that entrepreneurial experience. They have a story that can resonate with an entrepreneur. If you haven’t been in the entrepreneurial world, it’s hard to connect with and help others in that, that role. A passion and purity for doing EOS purely is another part of that component and just also having a network and knowing other entrepreneurs that you can help. That’s kind of who we’re looking for.
MARK WRIGHT 42:58
Oh, that’s cool. I always like to ask people, Kelly, because COVID had such a huge impact on just the whole world. Um, how did, how, what was it like managing through COVID? And I’d love to know that sort of the positives and the drawbacks now that we’re sort of post COVID. Um, do you have any thoughts on that?
KELLY KNIGHT 43:18
Absolutely. So it was, uh, February of 2020 when we hosted our big annual. We had 400 EOS implementers together here in Detroit and someone raised their hand and said, hey, there’s this thing that we’re hearing about called COVID. Are we worried about it? At the time we weren’t, but it was just a couple short weeks later that of course, in March of 2020, that hit. And so being that we, uh, at the time we’re very much an in person organization hosting in person events, implementers met with their teams face to face in a conference room or somewhere off site in person. And so quite literally 90 percent of our revenues and 90 percent of the activity that we did was in jeopardy because with COVID, none of us could be together. It wasn’t safe to do so. And all of that. Um, and so we really immediately, Mark, gathered together, uh, banded as a community, all of our EOS implementers, our coaches that coached EOS implementers, our leadership team, our mid managers, everybody together came to try to solve this problem and how are we going to continue to help serve entrepreneurs at a time when we can’t physically be together. So, what we did is we pivoted everything, including our EOS conference with over a thousand attendees to virtual. Um, and it was obviously really hard because we weren’t prepared for that. It’s not as though we had noticed and could have planned for such a time. And so, what we immediately did is said, well, we can’t control a lot of things right now, but what we can do is we can help entrepreneurs. So, what are we going to do? So, we immediately went to, um, being on a zoom or some other interactive, you know, mode. We were helping entrepreneurs. We did what’s called Lead Now campaigns. And all it was is we invited anyone in the entrepreneurial world that we could help to jump on calls and IDS, or issue solve their really their, their darkest, deepest issues that they were having as an entrepreneurs and how we could use EOS to help them solve their problems. Um, and so that really was an energizing activity because at a time when you can almost feel paralyzed during a worldwide pandemic, it broke us loose to do what we do best, and that’s to help entrepreneurs, whatever the conditions are that are happening in the world. So, it was scary at the time because we didn’t want the company to go under, implementers weren’t having sessions so they couldn’t pay us their monthly fees. So, we did some concessions and said, hey, don’t worry about it. We’re going to figure this thing out. Let’s just all band together. And that’s what we did. And you know, that is just such a testament to the human spirit of the community coming together to achieve something that never could have been done if we tried to solve it on our own. Um, and we got on the other side of it and we’re still growing and thriving today and have, I think, gained great benefit from the time that we’ve been able to serve and help others. So, it was scary at the time for sure. It took a lot of courage. There were more sleepless nights than I can count trying to figure out how we were going to survive and get through it. But at the same time, it was also an oddly peaceful time because knowing that we had the strength of a united community of really about 500 people in total, all focused on doing that we could do. Um, there’s something very disarming about that and sort of takes the stress or the anxiety out of it because we’re focused on a peaceful activity, which is just helping others. So, there’s a lot of irony in all of that, I guess I would say Mark, but it was a time now that maybe it’s sort of like childbirth. You’d look back later and you’re like, oh, that wasn’t so bad. Um, but I sort of looked back and think it was really hard, but it was a beautiful experience in that we came out of it even stronger than we had entered COVID.
MARK WRIGHT 47:05
Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s a great, great story, Kelly, because, um, yeah, I mean, the the most learning happens during the greatest challenges. And, um, it speaks to the, to the sort of glue that you all have become in the entrepreneurial world. That you this, this glue in this, this community that you’ve, you’ve built. The more entrepreneurs that I talk with, the more tell me that it’s all about relationships, and I think when we first get out of college, and we enter the working world. We really underestimate the value of who you know, and what is your relationship with that person? I’d love for you to talk to maybe that young person just coming out of school now about the value of relationships and what’s the best way to build those relationships in a genuine way?
KELLY KNIGHT 47:56
Hmmm. That’s great. I couldn’t agree with that sentiment more in that relationships really are everything. And when I think about relationships, I do think about this genuine interest and intrigue and learner personality component to this. So sometimes when you’re younger, it’s all about, well, how do I get my next steppingstone to further my own journey, like to become better in my, to get a promotion or to do something. And, and so my encouragement for young people, really for all people is just to slow down and just enjoy the conversations that you have with other people without necessarily having a goal of an outcome of that conversation. Um, and some of the best collaborations and partnerships that we’ve ever had, um, here within our own company at EOS Worldwide and those that I’ve had even outside, we’re all born out of just genuine curiosity for understanding other people, getting to the root of, you know, sort of what they’ve learned about life, what’s made them successful. Um, also sharing failures. Some of the greatest gifts are like, how did that not work out so well? And so, if we’re not winning sometimes maybe we’re learning and that’s another quote by Dan Sullivan is, you know, are you on the winning team or the learning team? The good news is in either case, it’s something good will come from it. And so, uh, so just be willing to step in and have different conversations with different people and you’ll be amazed at what you may learn and what will come from it. And I have a relationship with someone that I’ve been in, had been in business with for 28 years now. And we are still really close, and we’ll bounce ideas off of each other. So absolutely it is, it is the everything to 10 acts senior business is the idea of relationships, collaborations, and partnerships. It’s all, that’s all where it sits.
MARK WRIGHT 49:45
Yeah. And those relationships where you come into the conversation. Like you just said, not asking what can I get out of it, but what can I do to help you? And that’s when, when I’ve looked at the really, really successful business people, um, you know, my boss, Dan Rogers, at WORKP2P, has a saying where he says, we’ll help people for fun and for free. And then we become so valuable to them that they’ll want to give us money. And it’s so true that when you have that attitude of service, that, uh, it really, it just really makes a playing field that feels good and feels good in that relationship.
KELLY KNIGHT 50:20
Yeah. And I would just say to that, it’s have a genuine interest in people. Um, I am always super excited to know what makes other people tick and what their experiences are and to just enjoy that conversation. It really is fun. Um, it shouldn’t be tedious. It shouldn’t be hard. Um, and you know, again, I think if I were to go back and tell my 21-year-old self graduating from college, like, well, you know, there would be a couple of things. One is I would tell myself one step at a time. Just take one step at a time. Just one little step forward and don’t worry about the rest. Just one step at a time. And then the second piece is just exactly that, is to just put the love into the relationships and getting to know people because it is truly born out of that journey that the best things will come. And again, you don’t have to have it all figured out. It’s just going to become made known as you go through your journey. Um, and I think that would have probably given me some reassurance to some of the early-stage anxieties I had coming out of college and being a new businessperson.
MARK WRIGHT 51:25
That’s such great advice. And as you were saying that, Kelly, it just kind of reminds me of who I was earlier in my career, I think if I had to go back and tell an earlier version of myself, I would have said, hey, relax and believe in who you are and stop trying to convince others of what you think they want to see it’s like, you know, just we spend so much of our energy and our time trying to convince other people that we’re the right person for that next promotion or that that next job instead of just resting in our ability and having that that really attractive confidence and I I think that people who are truly confident are truly attractive in the world and you want to spend time with them because It doesn’t feel like it’s a it’s an energy drain. It feels like wow. This is a really cool person Um, that, that you really want to spend time around. I was really impressed, Kelly, with our pre interview survey that you filled out when we asked how are you redeeming work? And you really gave an eloquent answer, and I, I, I’d love for you to kind of restate that. You said the gift for all of us is in the journey, in how we show up in the world every day. Um, as you talk about what it is to redeem work, um, talk to that business owner, about your vision for what redeemed work looks like.
KELLY KNIGHT 52:46
Yeah, and I think that we’re all on this journey and as a leader, an entrepreneur, a visionary, an integrator, whatever role you serve, it’s that if you can wake up every day just having a laser focus on being a beacon of light in the world. I know that seems very like philosophical, but every day I wake up with two things, love and gratitude. Um, to do that I get to do, not that I have to do it, but I get to do that every day and that what is the one small thing that I might only be able to do one small thing today, um, to make a difference in someone’s life. And, uh, we can all do that. It doesn’t matter what industry we’re in, what kinds of clients we have. Where we’re located geographically, none of that really matters. And so, it’s to me, very simple, again, very philosophical, but it really, truly is just showing up every day as the best version of ourselves that we can be, which is by the way, completely imperfect, in every way possible. Um, but I believe that more good comes from having that perspective and waking up that way with that intention. Again, it’s about intentionality. And I can’t tell you how many things I’ve been forgiven. That of all the gazillion mistakes that I’ve made over the years, I’ve been given so much grace because I’m showing up every day with the intention to do the right thing for others and for those in my care. And so, I think if we can all just you know in a world that is often very complex and very challenging. If you just look around and open up the news, you’ll see it every single day. What can we do in the entrepreneurial space and otherwise just as humans to show up and to, to really unite and strengthen those around us. That’s really the way that I look at it.
MARK WRIGHT 54:34
Well, as we wrap things up, Kelly, this has been so, uh, fun to spend some time with you. Um, if there’s one book that you could suggest from the EOS community. Uh, can you suggest a book and also just how people can get ahold of you if they, if they want to?
KELLY KNIGHT 54:50
Sure. So, I would absolutely recommend sort of the, the first core book to EOS that’s called Traction by Gino Wickman and, uh, can be found on Barnes and Noble, Amazon, or what have you, anywhere. And you can find me on LinkedIn, Kelly Knight, EOS Worldwide, and, uh, all my other contact information is in my profile there.
MARK WRIGHT 55:12
And I have to ask you one more time that audacious goal that you have, where, where do you want to take EOS?
KELLY KNIGHT 55:18
So, EOS is a million companies running on EOS by 2030, not too far off.
MARK WRIGHT 55:25
Well, we’ll have to check back in when that happens, okay?
KELLY KNIGHT 55:27
Yeah, please do.
MARK WRIGHT 55:29
This has been so rewarding talking with you, Kelly, just your approach to business and your approach to life. Um, super inspiring and uh, it’s not a surprise that you’ve seen the success that you have after spending this time with you. So, keep up the great work, Kelly. Thanks for joining us on BEATS WORKING.
KELLY KNIGHT 55:44
Thank you, Mark. It’s been such a pleasure.
MARK WRIGHT 55:48
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P family. New episodes drop every Monday. And if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING, where we are winning the game of work.
