Naeem Mahmood is the founder of Peak Humans. He’s on a mission to unleash human performance through coaching, keynote speaking, events, thoughtful discussions, and powerful connections.
He is a world-renowned peak performance strategist in leadership, organizational behavior, the psychology of achievement, and sales mastery, where he has advised some of the world’s top organizations, including The U.S. Army, Salesforce, Equinox, and JP Morgan.
At the heart of what Naeem teaches is that each of us has the power within us right now to change our lives for the better, but it’s a decision we must make; then, we have to put in the work.
Naeem was one of Tony Robbins’ top national speakers, delivering 2,000+ talks to over 100,000 people on the psychology of peak performance.
Listen to the full episode here: https://open.spotify.com/show/1auY4JcvXdIWFjV4ehdgPk?si=6a5a1d5d11c34f8b
Resources from the episode:
- Get to know Naeem and join the Peak Network community here.
- Listen to Naeem’s podcast “Peak Humans” here.
- Follow Naeem and see his work in action on Instagram.
- Naeem also shared his story and how to apply some of his powerful insights for achieving your personal best in health, fitness, and life on “The Daily Creator.” You can listen to it here.
- Connect with Naeem on LinkedIn.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speakers: Naeem Mahmood and Mark Wright
NAEEM MAHMOOD 00:03
Do you want success, or do you want fulfillment? Because most people, they get success. You can get success, but that’s where we see the kind of proverbial story of the billionaire that commits suicide or the artist or the actor or the rockstar or the athlete that is unhappy, and same thing. My point is success isn’t the thing we want ultimately, what we want is fulfillment, and fulfillment is a different game.
MARK WRIGHT 00:34
This is the BEATS WORKING show. We are on a mission to redeem work – the word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to BEATS WORKING. It’s great to have you here. Naeem Mahmood gave thousands of talks when he was a national speaker for Tony Robbins, and he spent a career coaching people to the next level. At the heart of what Naem teaches is the concept that each of us has the power within us right now to change our lives for the better. It’s simply a decision we have to make and then, we have to put in the work. Naeem is also a big advocate of being intentional about what we want and honest about who we are and how to get it. He says, our lives are a reflection of our rituals, and we go deep on what that looks like on a daily basis. How are you setting yourself up for success each day? Naeem also teaches people better ways to communicate. Again, taking personal responsibility is at the heart of it. He says, the meaning of your communication is the response you get, and that’s on you. Naeem is the host of the podcast Peak Humans, where he shares top tips to make life better. I really enjoyed our time together because Naeem’s energy is simply infectious. Here’s to the next and better version of you and me. Naeem Mahmood, welcome to the BEATS WORKING podcast. It’s great to have you here.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 02:09
Thank you, Mark. I’m, uh, excited to be here.
MARK WRIGHT 02:12
So, in doing a little background on you, I find all kinds of cool content. You’ve got a podcast, you’ve got a consulting business. You were, uh, one of the national speakers for Tony Robbins for a number of years. What a cool background, and, and I’m just super excited to learn from you today.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 02:28
Oh man. I’m excited to be here and, uh, yeah, I’ve had a blast so far and I’m, I’m, I’m blessed, uh, to be in the position I’m in.
MARK WRIGHT 02:36
So Naeem, the podcast is called BEATS WORKING, winning the Game of Work. We’re on a mission to redeem work. I’d love to hear from you just off the bat. Um, I’d like your perception of work right now in America. Is it broken? Does it need fixing? How do we redeem it?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 02:53
Man, that’s a powerful big question, but I’d say, well, one is I’m kind of a little bit out of the, out of the, off the pulse cuz I’m down in Puerto Rico and I kind of live in my own little bubble. Um, but from what I hear and some things, I also don’t read too much news about it, but I’ve read some things about the great resignation. I know obviously the challenges people going through with Covid and now the economy and things like that. But, um, I think work is an interesting thing cuz for me it was always, I never wanted to work, right? Most young people, they just wanna make a ton of money and do nothing but for me, I just reestablish what work means, right? Like work is a meaningful act and I like to say to myself every morning, my labor is my love. So, um, I, I kind of see work as like my contribution to the world and it’s, uh, it’s a get to, right? So, I’m not looking to retire. It keeps, keeps people young and keeps ’em healthy. One of my mentors, he is in his late seventies. He was Nelson Rockefeller’s, uh, chief of staff for a long time, and, uh, but he still works to this day cuz it gives him meaning and purpose and keeps him young and healthy and, uh, makes him happy.
MARK WRIGHT 03:59
Yeah, I feel like I don’t want to be that guy that at 75 checks out and just goes to Palm Springs and golfs every day. I, I don’t, I don’t think I wanna be that guy. Although I do love golfing in Palm Springs. I just discovered that for the first time. But, uh, talk to me a little bit about how you got here. I mean, in doing some reading on your background, Naeem, I found your childhood is really interesting, and I just, I think it, you told me, uh, when we talked a few weeks ago that it really shaped who you are today. Talk a little bit about your childhood and how that gave you a lens through which you, you see life.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 04:34
Yeah, absolutely. So, I’d say my childhood shaped me in ways, one, socially with friends and peer groups. Um, I was, um, I grew up in a great neighborhood in, in nor Northern New Jersey, right outside New York City. Um, but I also was kind of a, one of the minor, I was a minority right, in terms of my ethnicity and my race. Um, so it did make me want to learn how to connect more with people and learn how to bring people together. And, uh, so that was definitely a big motivation, and, and also say with my family, my parents, they, they, they argued quite a bit growing up. So that was another big driver for me to learn how relationships work and do better at relationships myself, uh, with my partner. And, uh, also obviously being a great dad one day. I don’t have kids right now. Um, but yeah, so I would say those things definitely drive me to, uh, learn more about life and learn more about relationships and learn how to be, how to be a great person, how to live a great life, cuz again, they don’t really teach these things in school. So that’s kind of what drew me to this path of personal development and personal growth cuz I never got taught how to do these things, and the cool thing is there’s a process to this and you could have an incredible life, uh, if you obviously put in the hard work and learn some skills and, and, uh, learn from great people as well.
MARK WRIGHT 05:51
Isn’t that funny? There’s no instruction manual for life. Isn’t that just strange that the most important thing to the happiness and fulfillment of us as human beings? No. There’s no manual that they give us in first grade. Is there?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 06:05
Yep. It’s so wild, isn’t it? It is wild. And hopefully, one day when we’re, uh, well, hopefully not when we’re long gone, but maybe one day when we’re long gone, or hopefully sooner. Uh, it’ll shift, right? Cuz, I think we’re making great progress in, in humanity. Uh, but yeah, it is wild to me, uh, that that’s the case right now.
MARK WRIGHT 06:22
Talk to me a little bit about your parents. They came from very, very different backgrounds. Your dad is a Muslim, your mother I think was a Jehovah’s Witness and um, what did that, as a kid, that must have been super interesting for you to just see those two different truths that these people were living, that you were, were your parents.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 06:39
Definitely it did it make me, I, when people ask me what my religion is, I say, I’m confused. Uh, cuz I’m like, all right, like if the two people I love the most as a kid, or like fighting over this religion thing. I’m like, all right, there’s something interesting here, and that was going back to your other, other question, one of the earlier questions. That was a big driver for me too, understanding more about like what drives people and religion and things like that. So, um, it definitely shaped me a bit and, but again, it made me become better with people and better with psychology cuz I’m, cuz I, I wanted to figure it out and how to, uh, again, just navigate those types of challenges.
MARK WRIGHT 07:20
So, talk about, uh, I guess you were kind of a traditional kid, you know, go to college. Um, pick a major that would be financially successful. So, so take me through how did your, your school years and, and where you wound up.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 07:33
Yeah. So yeah, so I went to, again, a great, I, I grew up in a great town in, in Jersey and I, I had a blessing to be in a great educational system there. And then, uh, I, I was doing the typical thing, right? I went to a great school in, I went to NYU and I was kind of following the, the default path, right? Like, it’s like go to college, which is great, but not everybody needs to go to college too, honestly. Like, if it’s not your thing, I don’t think that’s the thing you must do, right? Cause especially now with student debt being bigger than ever and kids not even knowing why they’re going to school, and I was actually one of those kids, I was just going to school cuz I should go to school, right? Like I didn’t really study anything I wanted to study. I studied economics cuz again, it was like a good thing to study, and I could go become a banker or, and work on Wall Street, which is what I did, uh, when I first graduated. Um, but, uh, yeah, like after college and then, then I had to figure out those hard questions after college cuz I didn’t have to think about ’em before college. So that was, uh, my, my learning lesson on that journey.
MARK WRIGHT 08:32
So, you had a great job on Wall Street. You decided to move to Silicon Valley at some point. What, what caused that move?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 08:38
Um, well that was the place to be and, and, uh, I, I was excited about all the tech stuff and innovation and I had some friends out there. Um, and so that was probably the main reason. Um, just opportunity and innovation and, um, meeting awesome people.
MARK WRIGHT 08:54
Yeah. What was that like working in Silicon Valley? It’s, I, I think it’s an environment that most normal people, average people just can’t, can’t conceive of. I mean, in terms of just the stakes, um, the amount of money, the ideas, the, the amount of genius that exists there, right?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 09:10
Yeah, absolutely. I loved it. Um, and again, it depends on what even part of like the, the ecosystem you’re involved in. Um, I was more in, again, the creative part cuz I was, I was kind of on my journey of figuring out like, what do I really want to do? And so, I’m more, I’m more of a startup guy, right? Like, I like to like be kind of in the initial building phase and brainstorming phase of starting a comp company and figuring things out and helping people. So, for me it wasn’t as much of, there was definitely like high stakes involved, but I was more just like with founders and like our team and working on like the new, the new companies and products and pro services that we were working on. So, for me, it was fun just to meet again, really creative, really smart people in their own ways and to just constantly be thinking about, alright, how can we solve this problem and how can we add more value to clients? And, uh, just being in that, uh, mindset and that frame. I, I just love the culture out there in the sense where it was less, and again, it depends on where you’re on the ecosystem, but I went from like the banking hedge fund world, which is all about like numbers and revenue and ROI and all that stuff too. The flip side, which is more, all right, how can we like, create this cool product and talk to customers and figure out what they want and like be out there talking to people. So that was more aligned with, uh, my values and, and my purpose.
MARK WRIGHT 10:28
Yeah. Did you learn anything Naeem when you were in Silicon, Silicon Valley, in those jobs, in those early years? Were there any big lessons or any, any mentors that that, uh, caused some light bulbs to turn on for you?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 10:40
Uh, yeah, a lot. Um, I’d say, well the first person that comes to mind is one of the founders of, uh, I worked for a fund, uh, again, I worked for a fund, but a VC fund, and I was kind of working in one of the startups, right? So, it was more of a family office. So, the, the founder and the owner of it, he was very successful. He sold this company, and it was cool to work close to him cuz he was very charismatic, very influential, and very. He also like, kind of like, I’m not, he wasn’t on the level of Steve Jobs, but like, just kind of that, right. He always had cool ideas and like when he talked to you, it would just be like, you’d be mesmerized, and like you’d see him talk to other people and you’d be like, whoa, it’s like just influences the whole room. So, it’s cool to be around that, and again, if you’re around that enough, it rubs off on you and you start to see the nuances and the skills. So, point is that definitely, I learned the, the, the power of, like, communication and influence and storytelling uh, from working with him. Another person I got, I was blessed to work with was, uh, he was a very more on the analytical, he was a AI expert. He was one of the people who worked on NATO’s command and control systems. So, and he worked on the startup too, that I was working on. He was the, the CEO, the, the, and with him I learned just more about just kind of like process and systems thinking and also just thinking with more clarity and like specificity, uh, as well. So those are probably two people that come up where I learned some really cool skills and, uh, got to be around them.
MARK WRIGHT 12:06
Yeah. Do you think that there’s a big difference between that level of entrepreneur and the average person? Or do you think there’s a kind of a gray area where, um, you know, a lot of us are risk averse and we don’t want to take those huge chances, but at that level, um, you’ve gotta take risks, right?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 12:25
Yeah, absolutely. I think, well there, there’s a really good book called Grit by Angela Duckworth, which I love, I because she says, again, it’s not, we think these people like Einstein or Edison or Steve Jobs are like geniuses and they are, but also on the flip side, to be cliche, we’re all geniuses, right? We all have our own innate skills and talents and gifts, but the tr the question is, do we actually, like, embrace them? And like the, the, the challenge is to actually understand it, right? And like, know thyself and like kind of understand who you are and be yourself, and then work on developing those strengths, right? And then in the book that I love about Grit, the book by Angela Duckworth, she says the determining factor between, like, geniuses and not is just effort, which sounds boring and like whatever, and basic, right? But it’s effort. It’s like how much effort are you willing to put into your craft day after day after day? Cuz that is really the defining factor that she says of geniuses, right? Like Einstein Edison, Steve Jobs, they were just like masters of their craft, and become a master of your craft. It’s simple. You just gotta put in the effort every single day, day in and day out for year after year, after year after year, which is for most people hard to do.
MARK WRIGHT 13:35
Yeah. Speaking of Einstein, read, read the, uh, sign behind you if you would, so, so our audience could hear it.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 13:41
Yeah, for sure. Love is the answer. So, I remember seeing a cool photo of him holding a sign just like this, kinda my finger holding it up with a, as the wood and uh, Einstein is just holding that up. So I thought that was really cute and, uh, great reminder. So, I just painted that myself and put it up on the wall.
MARK WRIGHT 13:58
That’s really cool. And you know, something else that Einstein said, I’m not stating it exactly, but he said something like, the more that I learn, the more I realize, I don’t know. So, here’s a, here’s a guy who understands the power of love and the limitations of just being human, right?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 14:16
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. It’s, uh, it’s cool when you, I, I love reading biographies, right? So, I find there’s common threads and patterns of, of these people that are geniuses, right? If you wanna call ’em that. Um, but that’s one, right? Like, one is they all love reading and learning, and another one is similar to what you said. It’s like the more they learn, the more they realize they don’t know in a, in a humbling way, right? Like, it’s the, the, the wise people usually kind of realize they don’t know it all and that they, they, they’re also open to learning from the smartest, but also the quote-unquote people that are below them, right? Cuz, they don’t really see it that way. They, they can learn from anybody.
MARK WRIGHT 14:53
Yeah. You talked about big personalities. You got connected with, uh, Tony Robinson. I’d love to hear that story. Uh, I just, the statistic I read, you gave something like 3000 or more, uh, speeches during that time with Tony Robbins. Is that right?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 15:08
Yeah, it was about 2000, but I’ll take, I’ll, I’ll take 3000.
MARK WRIGHT 15:12
Uh, so how did, how did that all start? I mean, he’s just an, I such an iconic figure in our country.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 15:17
Oh yeah. It’s incredible. I’m so blessed to be able to have, uh, had the relationship and, and be in, be, work for him and be part of the mission. Um, it was really, it’s still, it’s, it’s amazing how deep in my bones and cells it’s been, and I’m still part of the family and I’m still grateful to, uh, just have relationships with him and the whole company. But, uh, yeah, I went to the, one of the events, so, well, this is, I was on my personal growth journey and I, it started with reading books and then, uh, I took an event, I took one seminar, which led to another, which meant led me to meeting somebody who said, oh, you should go check out Tony Robbins. And I’m like, eh, whatever, right? Like most people would be, and I heard about ’em before. I’m like, yeah, it’s okay. And then I, but I bought a ticket anyway cause I’m like, all right, I’m gonna start saying yes to more things and just be more curious and open-minded about things. So, I bought a ticket, and I was living in New York at the time. And then the weekend, it’s on a weekend, right? And I’m like, I’m 23 or something, I don’t know. 20 around there, and it’s the weekend in New York. And all right, do I want to go to the seminar or do I wanna like just chill in New York on the weekend, right. So, I was like right on the edge of not going, but then I’m like, all right, I’m gonna go. I gotta go. So, I went, and it was just like the most incredible thing I’ve been to at that point in my life, right? It was just like a rock concert. It was fun. Everybody was uplifting and friendly and smart and like, and driven to grow and learn. Um, and just seeing Tony, it was like, I’ve been other, I went to some other events before that, but like Tony was. It’s like going to see Michael Jordan playing like everybody else, right? It’s like, all right, there’s clearly a difference here between this person and everybody else. Um, and I’m still looking for somebody that’s on Tony’s level, right? Like Tony’s just from what I’ve seen so far, he’s just, he’s just a gift, right? Like, um, but I went, and I was like, this is amazing, and he planted the seed in my head where it’s like, oh, I wanna work for this guy. Like, I remember hearing Richard Branson say once, um, he’s like, if you want to just be, build your vision and be really successful and do your own thing one day. First, it’s a good idea,a good idea to go get paid to learn. So, it’s like, what do you wanna get great at? Like, what do you wanna master? What do you wanna build? So, if you want to go master investing go work for Warren Buffet, right? So, if you want to go master sports, go or like basketball, go try to work for Phil Jackson or somebody, right? Like, or, or a sports team. But the point is like, all right, cool. Like I wanna learn how to do what Tony does cuz I saw Tony have conversations and help people change their lives in the moment in front of all these people, and I was like, that was so inspiring to me to do that, and it touched me so deeply. So, I’m like, all right, I wanna learn how he does that. So, I applied for the job and I, I got the job, and I started working for him.
MARK WRIGHT 17:59
So, what was it about Tony’s message? And for those of us who have not been to a Tony Robbins, I have some friends who just absolutely loved going to those sessions, but break down what, what a Tony Robbins session is and what’s the underpinning philosophy that he teaches?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 18:16
Yeah, sure. So, I’d say that’s a big question. Uh, there’s, there’s so many different like, ways of thinking about it and explaining it, but I’d say simple in terms of like, what, uh, is the undermining philosophy is we have the ultimate power within us to change our life at any moment, right? And, and it really just is a decision, and again, that sounds basic and obvious, right? But it’s like literally we have the power to like, control our lives and create it how we want it, and also take responsibility for our lives too. Cuz most people, myself included, back then, I wasn’t taking responsibility for my life. I was complaining. I was like, oh, my parents fought like the, it was 2008, the financial crisis happened. I’m like, oh, the economy’s bad. Like all these external things are ruining my life, right? So that was cool. That was like a cool like, ownership and also painful cause it’s like, oh cool. Like it’s not on the world, it’s on me. So, but the cool thing too is like, if I could make it this way, I could also make it another way how I want it, right? So, I’d say that’s kind of like the under, underpinning mission. And also, like leadership is living life on your terms too, right? It’s like, Live life on your terms and, and, and the quality of your life is also the quality of your emotions. Also learning how to manage that cuz most people, me too, back then I was just, my emotions were all over the place, right? I was like, sad, excited, depressed, angry, determined, and then like, going through those cycles, right? Versus oh cool like I could actually manage my emotional state and there’s like a way to do this versus again, just being like tugged along the river of life. So, I’d say that’s kind of the underpinning mission or, or way I, I would describe it in terms of the way the events are, again, very fun and entertaining cuz Tony, again, he’s a master of what he does and the best way to learn is through entertainment, right? And also, movement. Not just sitting down at a seminar. Like you could go watch Tony’s stuff on YouTube, but it’s not gonna be as effective cuz it’s like I’m just sitting down passive, right? Or I could go watch anybody else, Warren Buffett or some or a, or a workout video but if you’re not actually doing the physical act and moving your body. It’s just gonna be up here in your, your brain, your, your, your head. Which is why most people in today’s world, we understand things cognitively, but we’re not actually doing it. Like everybody knows how to be healthy and fit. Everybody knows how to make more money. Everybody knows how to build a business. Everybody knows how to be in a passionate, loving relationship, but it’s the, the, the inverse of what actually people are doing, right? Most people don’t have any of those things, right?
MARK WRIGHT 20:43
Yeah. So, um, tell me what was a typical day like when you were a national speaker with Tony Robbins? What, what was a typical day like in terms of like, you got up and just take me through the day? Cuz, it sounds like a really interesting way to make a living.
20:58
Yeah, it was, it was really fun and also very challenging. Um, but I’d say basically, typically it was kind of like the Navy Seals of like influence and like human uh, persuasion, right? Because my job was to either be doing talks or booking talks, right? So, if I’m not doing talks, which is why I did so many talks, right? Like, if I wasn’t doing a talk that day or multiple talks that day, I had to go out and like book talks, right? And, and again, Tony is like, he’s a results-driven person. It’s not like you could just sit at home and wait till they give you talks. Like you’ll be off the team in a heartbeat, right? Like you gotta perform, right? So, it’s like if you’re not performing, it’s like why are you even here? Right? Which is also, I love it. Cuz again, it’s practice what you preach. And that’s kind of again, the essence of what Tony teaches. It’s like it’s about getting results in your life. Cuz that’s what we want, right? We, we want results in our business relationship, our health, and all that. So, typical day, I’d wake up nice and early, do my routine, just make sure I’m ready for the day. I would meditate or I would journal, I’d work out, and things like that. And then I, again, if I had a talk booked, I’d go do a talk with a company. If I didn’t have a talk booked, I would just go either knock on doors the old-fashioned way or I would pick up the phone and call, or I would just kind of go network and go to an event or something like that. And the cool thing, over time, I got more creative. I got better at it. Um, but it was a lot of fun. In the beginning, it was definitely resistance. Like the first time I was knocking on a realtor’s door in Wisconsin, I was like, ah and they’re like, you could leave now. I was like, okay. So, but then you get good at it, right? I got better and better at like, hey, how’s it going? Right? Getting past the gatekeeper, going to the decision maker, the founder, the broker, whoever it might be, and like booking a meeting on the spot. Like, then it was like, oh, cool. I have like, I felt like a Jedi in Star Wars, where it’s like, oh, I have these superpowers now where I could like, I could make it to like, Let Eric Schmidt at Google and like make it through all the people if I was in Palo Alto and like figure out how to get in the door and like knock on his door and be like, hey Eric, let’s have a chat, right? So, so it was a cool skillset to learn and at the end of the day, it’s like, one of the things, the things I learned most from Tony is influences the ultimate power, and again, going back to your original question about what the event’s about, it’s like influence cuz if we’re not, if we, and the first person we gotta influence is ourselves. Because if you can’t influence yourself, you can’t influence other people. But so the first person, every day I gotta influence myself to get up. I gotta influence myself to go knock on doors. I gotta influence myself to make my sales calls. I gotta influence myself to whatever it is, go to the gym, right? So whatever it’s you gotta do, and then it goes from the inside out, then it’s like, cool, I gotta, how can it influence this one person for their sake, right? That’s the other thing. Most people, when you think of a influencer, a salesperson, they usually people try to take, right? That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re trying to, talking about more in the giving context cuz real sales is service, right? So, it’s more about, all right, how can I serve Mark, right? So, I’m not going to try to sell you something Mark, like I’m going to serve you, right? And that’s what real business owners do. That’s what you guys are doing with the podcast, right? That’s what Dan is doing with his company, right? It’s like real service. It’s uh, uh, what is it? Uh, uh, the sidekick, right? The be, be a hero.
MARK WRIGHT 24:10
Yeah. The sidekick process, yeah.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 24:12
The sidekick process. Exactly. I love how Dan talks about that. It’s like, it’s not about me, it’s about how can I serve you and be, be the sidekick to you being the hero, right? So, Influence was a really cool skill to learn from Tony and now to this day, it’s so helpful in my business and to help my clients and to, and also my personal life.
MARK WRIGHT 24:30
I heard you say our lives are a reflection of our rituals, and you talked about how you start your day. I’d love you to share some, some wisdom when it comes to, um, things that you found are effective at starting your day?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 24:43
Yeah, absolutely. So, for sure, like if you look at the, when somebody has a challenge, it’s like, all right, like, look at their habits. It’s kind of like an accounting system. If people have money, it’s like, all right, let’s go see where you spent your money, right? So, or, or didn’t spend your money, right? But like, same with habits. If, if you’re unhealthy and overweight or if you’re broke or if you’re don’t. If you keep falling in the same pattern of finding like, this abusive partner in relationship emotionally or physically or whatever it might be, it’s like you have a habit and patterns that create that, right? Maybe you eat Doritos, maybe you don’t sleep on time, maybe you’re like, not eating vegetables and drink green juice, whatever it might be. So, you’re, that’s why that’s what it means, where our life is a reflection of our rituals, right? You could literally be like, oh, cool. Like, Mark, you’re really great at what you do and I’m sure you have rituals that you’ve done now for like, over the last 25, 30 years that make you really agree to what you do, right? Um, and to, if we’re honest, like myself too, like we also have areas we’re kind of not that good at, right? That’s where it’s like, oh, cool. Yeah. So, tattoo, you probably have some rituals there, or lack thereof where, all right, cool. How can I, what rituals do I need to kind of implement to raise my standard so I can improve that area of my life, right? So, uh, but the morning I li I like it just cuz again how you start your day and primer day, it’s important, right? It’s kind of like getting that, uh, like alignment in football or a jiujitsu or a wrestler. Like if you get that edge on the day, like even that little two millimeters makes a huge difference, right? So as soon as I wake up, instead of like, letting the day take over and like my phone and my thoughts and the stress and whatever, it’s like I’m gonna take it first. Cuz most people when they wake up, they go into sympathetic of the auto autonomic nervous system, right? They go into like fight or flight and they’re just reacting all day. They’re stressed out, they have cortisol all day, and then versus parasympathetic, which is more rest and digest, and you’re kind of just in a centered, grounded state and you can handle things a lot more effectively. Kind of like Neo in the matrix, right? When the bullets are coming, I could like, see ’em instead of like getting hit or like getting all flustered. So, but ways to do that, again, this is not just like esoteric airy-fairy stuff. There’s like scientific um, proof to this stuff, right? So, one really great person I like to listen to, and I suggest to people is listen to Andrew Huberman. He has a really good podcast. He’s a professor of neuroscience at Stanford. So, like, this is like real neuroscience and neuroplasticity but my point is like, meditation is one. It’s like I meditate. I’ve been meditating every year, every day for the last like, probably 10 plus years now. So that was probably like, one of the biggest game changers for me, cuz that just slows everything down, right? Drops me in and like I could handle things better. I like to write, I like to journal cuz gets all the thoughts outta my brain onto paper. So, it’s like, all right, if you keep it in your head, it’s just gonna circle around, over and over and over. So, if you get it out, it’s just like, it’s out, right? And then another one that I like to do, I like to, we’ll work out, which is something a lot of us have heard before, but not everybody does it. I like to do some sort of physical exercise, right? To go to the gym, do some yoga. If I don’t have time, I just go for a quick walk around the block. I like to, I’m in Puerto Rico, I like to surf and paddleboard if the waves are there. Um, I also like to, what’s another one I like to do? Oh, read like, reading too, for sure. Like, reading I’d say is probably the other, reading and meditation I’d say are probably the two most profound things that, that have impacted my life cuz I was reading a quote the other day about from Charlie Munger. He is like, you’d be amazed, this is Charlie talking about Charlie Munger’s, Warren Buffet’s business partner. He is like, you’d be amazed at like, Warren Buffet. He’s like literally just sitting down reading all day and like thinking all day and then like he’s just very patient and then like when a great opportunity comes, then he like takes some action. But most people, they just mess up cuz they’re so hasty and they’re like just always looking for something, right? Versus like just reading. Like again, all these amazing people, they love to read books, right? So, um, reading is another thing I like to do in the morning.
MARK WRIGHT 28:47
Wow. So, understanding the value of just thinking and being pragmatic, and I think there’s a, our society tends to reward lots of action, right? It’s like, hey, the boss is coming, look busy.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 29:00
Oh yeah. Yep, absolutely.
MARK WRIGHT 29:03
So, uh, I love your podcast, Peak Humans. Um, super cool, digestible, great takeaway. Um, you’ve also got the Peak Network, that’s your consulting business, right?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 29:16
Yeah. So Peak, yep. Peak Humans is, uh, I like to share tidbits of insights of things my clients are going through just kind of ways to, to handle those kind of tools, right? For, to be more of a peak performer in life. Um, and then also interviews, right? I, I do interviews with people that are doing great work in the world and I kind of extract their, their thoughts, their mindset, their belief systems, their habits and behaviors, their rituals, uh, in what they do. So, so other people can hear that and, and learn that as well. Cuz if you can model somebody, you could do it a lot quicker than doing it on your own, right? Um, and then the, yeah, the Peak Network is uh, kind of part of the coaching consulting arm of my business, where we just a group of people and we are high-performing entrepreneurs and we come together every so often, and it’s through coaching and powerful discussions where we just uplift each other and support each other to go to the next level, right? So, we use, I use a lot of coaching tools in there that I learned, again, working with Tony and over the years, other, other courses and events I’ve attended to help these entrepreneurs just uplevel and go to the next level. But the magic is, again, one-to-one is cool, but when you’re in a group and it like comes together again, that’s the mastermind effect. If you ever read, “Think And Grow Rich” by Napoleon Hill, it’s like, the energies come together, right? And I’m reading another really good book, um, uh, what’s it called? The Rational Optimist by, uh, Matt Ridley. It’s a great book. He wrote another really good book called Genome. Uh, but he ba basically in the book, he talks about how humans evolved to the next level was, yeah, we, um, I forgot the first thing he said. Like it was our gene, obviously like just through evolution but the next thing that helped us do things like this beyond Zoom, have these mics, have these headphones, is collaboration, right? Humans coming together knowingly or not, right? Because the person who built this Blue Yeti microphone material doesn’t know that I’m like, doesn’t know maybe Steve Jobs and like the people that made the Apple computer and like whatever shirt you’re wearing over there. So, the point is like the ideas of people coming together, it has this magical effect, uh, when that happens. So, it’s really cool blending that with the coaching tools. Then it’s really fun cuz there’s like holiness space for that too, right? It’s not just getting people in room cause then it’s just banter, right? It’s people just talk. But like, if you could like, kind of like an orchestra, put the right instruments together and kind of create the space for that to happen, it becomes really cool.
MARK WRIGHT 31:40
When you start coaching people, what does that look like? And I’m guessing, I, I heard you just say that you kind of assimilated like some stuff that you learned through Tony and through your life experience, but what is, what is your coaching experience like?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 31:55
Yeah, when I work with a client. So, whether it’s with a company or a team, right? And then also individuals, but starting, if it’s a company or a team, same there. It’s what’s the outcome, right? Because most people, they’re focused on their problems. I call it problem frame, right? Even, especially in corporate America, right? A lot of people bureaucracy. So, we gotta get ’em out of problem frame and the outcome frame, right? So, it starts with the leaders, and the leaders usually blame the team, and the team usually blames the leaders, right? So, it’s really kind of like, de uh, constructing it and setting more precise boundaries, and also teaching some fundamental, um, I call ’em presuppositions, right? To people, the leaders and the team about all right. The one simple one that’s really powerful is the meaning of your communication is the response that you get, the meaning of your communication or response you get. So, what that means is it’s like if I communicate to you, Mark in a loving way, and I’m like, oh, Mark, you’re so awesome, and you take it in a different way. Like, oh, Naeem, you offended me. Most people be like, what? What are you talking about, Mark? You’re such a weirdo. What’s wrong with you, Mark? Like, I would blame you for like not taking my communication in the way I intended it, even though I had loving awesome intention. So, my point is though, it’s flipping it and again, taking ownership. All right, cool. What did I say? How can I say differently? So, Mark, actually, it has the effect I wanna have on Mark. So, same with companies again. It’s like, all right, cool. The executives, they’re like the founders, like, I’m training ’em, I’m giving ’em all the resources. I’m paying ’em like they’re not doing the results. What the heck? And then the team is like, I’m doing my work. I show up on time. I’m doing what you asked me to do and like, all right, just again, it’s your fault, your fault, your fault, your fault. So again, teaching simple, not well, simple, but also not, right? Like huge distinctions. It’s like hitting a golf club, right? If you have your thumb like two millimeters off, it’s going to go from being on the green to like, shanked out into the forest, right? So, like these tiny little micro distinctions that people aren’t aware of that make a world of a difference in their business. And the cool thing is sometimes, and most of the time honestly, I go and make these tiny little shifts and it like, it’s a huge shift for the company, right? They double their revenue, they solve the challenges, they figure out things. So, for me, it’s fun cuz I get to be like a magician and kind of show them these things. Kind of like a coder on a computer with a website. If you don’t know how to code a website. You’ll be banging around all day like a monkey. But if you know how to code, it’s like I could press one little thing and it’s like, boom, you got a website, right? So, and then similar with individuals, right? If it’s with individuals, same idea. But again, all right, what is the individual working on? Most of my clients are founders of businesses or running a fund or working in Web Three on their protocols and their projects, but depending on what they want, right? Everybody has a different outcome, and then from there, similar thing I’d say, what’s the distinction? What’s a two-millimeter shift that can help them kind of become aware of that they’re not aware of and make the shifts? And a lot of it again, comes down to also their belief systems and their values. Cuz most people, their values are in conflict, which is why most people, they go for goals, but the reason they don’t at take so many people, right? Like, tell me if it resonates with you or you see other people go through the same thing. It’s like they have a goal, but they don’t actually take action on the goal, and they’re like, why don’t I achieve my goals? I don’t know why, right? And the only reason is cuz their values are just not, they’re in conflict. Cuz I always tell people, don’t focus on your goals as much as you focus on your values, cuz your values are driving your goals. And then same with beliefs, right? If you’re beliefs are, if I wanna be on more podcasts and I have a belief that I’m not great on podcasts, nobody wants to hear what I have to say. It’s like I’m either not gonna book ’em, or even if I’m on ’em, I’m gonna sound like crap cuz I’m gonna run in the back of my head the whole time. It’s a filter, it’s a filter of how you see the world, right? I’m gonna be like, uh, nobody cares. This, I’m not sounding good, and then I’ll just, I will start to reflect that in the physical world, right?
MARK WRIGHT 36:01
Yeah. So, you know, it’s just so weird how, and we’re all guilty of this. Living on autopilot. You know, you talked about reacting to the world and blaming other people, and that’s, that’s just kind of the human condition. I’d love you to talk to that person listening to the podcast right now who maybe is not making progress on their goals and maybe not, not living the life that they really want. What, what, what advice would you give them? Like, where do you start?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 36:30
That’s a great, so that’s another big one and that’s a great question. Um, I would say, first I would start, wow, there’s so many ways to go with this. They’re just popping in my head. It’s like, sure, sure. Uh, but, but, but the first one I’d say is, again, what do you want? Right? That’s a simple fundamental premise, right? What do you want? Like practice asking yourself that, cuz most people, my, myself included, when I discovered this, I realized instead of asking what do I want, I was asking what should I do, right? And presupposing, I should be doing something to make somebody else happy, to get validation from somebody else. And for most people, again, myself included, it was my parents, right? Or society. Like, oh, I should, I should become a banker so I could be successful and have status. So, I could spell my peers, think I’m successful., right? Again, nothing wrong with this.
MARK WRIGHT 37:21
So that’s, that’s how you wound up on Wall Street, right? I mean.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 37:23
exactly. Yep. Yeah. It wasn’t really like my true calling and passion, right? Cuz I was asking what should I do, right? So that and also marriage, right? People get married, people have kids, and again, that’s awesome. I wanna get married one day and have kids too one day. But also, it’s like, back in the day, I was like, I should get married when I’m 26. I should have three kids by the time I’m 30, and just kind of default thing, right, because, and the crazy thing is, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a cycle, right? We all, it’s kind of like getting caught in the ocean current here, right? It’s like once you get caught in the, the white water when you’re surfing, it’s like hard to get out of it. So, it’s like everybody, not everybody, most people, they start to get in that, right? My friends are, oh, they got married at 26. Oh, actually get married at 26, and then it’s like you have this pressure and you’re getting sucked into that, right? So, I’d say start with like, notice the question you’re asking and be like, instead if it’s, what should I do, change it. Like what do I want? Like, ask a more empowering question or like, what would make me happy or what’s exciting to me. Um, also another good one, ask to understand your values more is what’s most important to me. So, like if you’re ever stuck in any moment or during the day, even during the day, I ask myself this question all the time. It’s like if I’m kind of like stuck in the day, cuz again, as a business owner, there’s so many things to do. So, if I’m ever kind of in a part where like, oh shoot, should I do this or that, I’m like, all right, just calm, breathe for a second. Like, what’s most important to me right now? Because also, it’s not just about my business, about my, I have my girlfriend here with me, so I’m like, it’s values, right? Like I want to grow my business, but also love is like, my ultimate top value. So sometimes I’m like, oh, should I make this extra phone call and like spend another hour on the phone? Or to go for a walk with my girlfriend at 6:00 PM and enjoy the sunset. Most people, cuz they’re trying to build, make their partner happy even though it’s not like, oh, I gotta do this call so I can make a lot of money so I could buy my partner stuff or take her somewhere versus, no, like, what she really wants is you to like go for a walk with her at Sunset, right? So, we kind of, again, climb the ladder of success cuz we think it’s gonna get us what we want. But what we want is like right in front of our nose. We just have to like pause for a second, right? So that’s another good question. So, I’d start with that. What’s most important, what do I want? And then maybe another one real quick, and then I’ll pass it back to you. Like definitely start reading books, like read books on personal growth and mindset stuff that’s gonna feed your mind some good stuff. Cuz again, it’s really just your thoughts. You wanna start feeding it. If you’re eating sugar all day, you’re going to not have great outputs, right? But if you start eating greens and carrots and good stuff, you’ll start having good outputs. You just wanna start reading at least half an, that’s what I did again. Like I just started reading books on personal growth and I’m like, every day, even to this day, it’s a habit. Like every day I read books on feeding my mind even it’s for five minutes just to keep the habit going. So that, and then the other one real quick, I’d say if they feel called to meditate, meditate, um, or the other one is find a mentor or a peer group, cuz being around who you spend time with, who you become. So that’s probably even the quickest and the best maybe, if you wanna call it the best, if you just gotta. Find a way to just put yourself around people are doing the thing you want to do, but not just one time over and over. So, like, and it’s hard, right? Because it’s like for me to go find the successful business owner that’s way ahead of me have to like level up my game and my energy to like be in their space. So to do it once it’s like, oh, I have to grow to do it again. I have to grow some more. So, like, I would find a networking group or entrepreneurs group if you wanna build a business, mentors and like set up a process where every week, every other week, I’m gonna be around these people to make sure they keep me rising up to the top.
MARK WRIGHT 41:07
So, what makes you come alive? Because I think there’s, there’s kind of a debate. You know, we tell our kids, you know, go for what you’re passionate about, the money will follow, and then other people say, you know, figure out what your skills are. And then as you develop your skills, you’ll find a passion that will help, you know, help you become the best version of yourself. What, what are your thoughts on that? Naeem in terms of, of just, you know, career advice when it comes to following, quote-unquote, following our passion.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 41:39
Um, so that I would say, again, I, I, I’m always a believer of for sure, like follow your passion cuz that’s where your energy is going. Uh, but also too, again, depends on your outcome, depends on your, we said before know thy know thyself, right? But you also gotta know who you are, right? Some people, they’re good at just jumping ship and just going all in other people, and there’s not good or bad, right? Like, other people are like, all right, let me go have this job. So, I have like cash flow, and then on the side, let me build my dream business, which is also a great idea too. That depends on, again, your personality type and what feels good to you, right? But definitely following your passion. And to me, passion and purpose one is it’s not, it used to be, to me that was like all this big thing, what’s my purpose, right? And it’s like an existential question, but like every moment, whatever, like right now my purpose is being on this podcast with you, right? So it’s not like, oh, my purpose is to change a billion people’s lives and feed the world, right? Like, That’s cool too, right? But like your purpose is also small things. Oh, my purpose right now is to do this podcast. My purpose after this, to have a coaching call with my client, right? So, it doesn’t need to be like this crazy, big complex thing too, but, uh, following your passion, I for sure think that’s a great thing, cuz again, it’s where your energy’s going. And the key is finding, making it align again with your values. Cuz again, the reason why people sometimes don’t want to follow it is cuz it might not be aligned with their values or so they think. So, if you don’t, you might just not realize how it is aligned with it. So, you might just wanna start asking the question, like, if my top value is love, or one of my other top values is impact, like a lot of people wanna be successful, right? Like, have success and significance or, or also health, right? For me, or contribution, and I want to be like a marine biologist. Like, I’d be like, uh, I don’t know if I could make a career. It can be, be successful. So, it’s like, all right, cool. How could being a marine biologist, this is a question you gotta ask. How could being a marine biologist or X, whatever it is for you, or a skateboarder or a YouTuber, whatever it’s you want to be, or a podcaster, like how will, how can I, how will be doing this X help me experience more Y, which is the value, right? And if you ask your brain a question where you see all this artificial intelligence, like chat GPT, you ask it a question that has amazing answers. If you ask your brain a question, it’ll give you some amazing answers. You just gotta try, just like ChatGPT with the prompting. If you give it a bad prompt, it’s gonna give you a bad, que a bad answer. But if you prompt chat g p t, well just like if you prompt your brain well, you’re gonna get some great answers. So, I would, um, align it with your values, right. So how will, how will being a marine biologist help me experience more impact? How will being a marine biologist help me experience more love in my life? How will being, being, being a marine biologist help me make a hundred million dollars, right? Like, and you’ll think of creative ways and not just answer it once, answer it like a hundred times, right? And this goes back to grit and the effort, right? This is where successful people, they do the things unsuccessful people won’t. So, are you willing to do something like that a hundred times, write it down on a piece of paper over and over and over until you start to literally rewire your nervous system? And that goes back to neuroplasticity and the way our brain works.
MARK WRIGHT 45:04
Yeah. You’ve spent a lot of time with really successful people. Um, for the average person, what do you think the biggest misconception is that we have when it comes to quote-unquote being successful?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 45:18
Uh, well, I’d say yeah, most people think it’s an external thing, um, but it’s not, right? It’s an internal thing, and there’s also a big distinction between do you want success, or do you want fulfillment? Because most people, they get success. You can get success, but that’s where we see the kind of proverbial story of the billionaire that commits suicide or the artist or the actor, or the rockstar or the athlete that is unhappy, and same thing. My point is, success isn’t the thing we want. Ultimately, what we want is fulfillment. And fulfillment is a different game, right? Success is still cool. Like I like being successful, but it’s not, I don’t need success to have the fulfillment I want inside. Like I’m fulfilled now, like I’m experiencing the emotions and my values now. I don’t need the stuff outside first so I can feel it inside. I it’s, you flip it. I feel it inside now, just cuz you’re allowed to, you could feel whatever you want, right? Most people, they feel un unpleasant things most of the time, but you reverse that and then, then the cool thing too is when you start to feel that. If you feel more confidence, love, gratitude, joy, excitement, creativity, impact. The funny thing is you’ll start to create more of that in the external world anyway, but you’re also not attached to it. So, I’d say that’s the big distinction though. It’s the fulfillment thing that everybody wants. Like when I talk to these really successful business owners, they’re making like, billions of dollars or hundreds of millions of dollars. Their companies really successful and they’re still not happy. And it’s, they’re like, and when I’m like, what do you want? And they’re like, the thing that makes me the happiest, and this is, it’s crazy it patterns where you talked about this before. Pretty much every single time they’re like, I love seeing my team grow and get better. Like I love helping people. So, and they’re like jealous of me and I’m like 27, 28 years old when I was doing this. I’m like, really? Oh right. So, but that’s what’s wild. Like you see the patterns and like for them it’s like it me too. That’s why I love what I do, cuz it’s the most fulfilling thing to like, see my client light up and be grateful and like get through their pain and like fall in love or get a better body and have more confidence in all these things. So, for me, that drives me and fills me up with so much energy and joy. So, people, the, the, even when they get the external stuff and the success, the traditional success, the thing that really makes them happy, its growing, making progress, and contributing and like giving back and helping other people.
MARK WRIGHT 47:58
So, when I hear you talk about fulfillment and just becoming a more complete person, it just makes me realize that when we have that as our goal, we don’t need that other stuff to affirm us, right? We don’t have to chase, you know, the affections or the approval of a boss or a company or an industry, um, because we can rest in, in, in that, right?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 48:22
Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s internal versus external validation.
MARK WRIGHT 48:28
Yeah. Okay. Uh, I wanna wrap things up Naeem, this has been so much fun. Um, I want you to grab us by the shoulders right now and look in our eyes and tell us a little bit of inspiration that’ll get us, uh, get us motivated to, to get from where we are, to where we want to be.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 48:46
All right, I like that. Well, the first thing I’d say is everybody gotta stand up, right? If you’re listening to this thing and move your body around a little bit, cuz again, it’s that when we’re in our head, we’re dead, right? So, the first thing I’d say is get up, move your body, shake your butt a little bit, sway around a little bit, and then it’s literally, you can have do berate whatever you want in your life. And you gotta put in the effort too though, right? So one is, I go read that book “Grit” by Angela Duckworth. Because it’s not, I could, I used to think I could just visualize and manifest things in the law of attraction, the secret, and not do anything.
MARK WRIGHT 49:20
There’s checking the mailbox, right? The money just starts coming in.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 49:25
Yep, exactly. That happens when you’re doing the work, right? So, it’s like, if I visualize and mentally rehearse, cuz I’m, I’m doing the work, right? Like again, listen to Huberman podcast. He has a great episode about mental rehearsal and visualization and athletes like Michael Phelps. Every day when he was training for the Olympics, he would visualize himself standing on the podium, holding the gold medal in his hand and like, touching the edge of the wall, beating the other swimmer like, clearly, specifically over and over and over every night before he went to bed. And lo and behold, cuz he was also putting in the work during the day. So again, it’s not just the mental visualization, it’s also the motor work physically doing it, right? So, my point is, you could do what you want, you could have what you want, you can create life how you want it, you gotta do the work, and it starts with, again, reading, doing the habits, the rituals, putting yourself around the right people, and also remembering this is the challenging part I think for most people, and I get it, is challenging. It’s the relationships, right? With their parents, with their friends, with their family, with their girlfriend, with the boyfriend, with their kids. They feel guilty. They feel like they’re gonna lose them. Let, leave them behind or they’re, they’re not, they’re letting somebody down and all that stuff isn’t true, right? And the cool thing is when you kind of have some faith and, and trust yourself and trust there’s a higher power, and the beautiful thing is too, is when you do that, you’re gonna create a more beautiful, fulfilling relationship in a different way. Cuz most people, they have codependent relationships, right? They’re not, it’s not, they don’t own their relationships, right? They don’t have boundaries. So, the beautiful thing is it might be a little painful in the beginning, but long term, you’re gonna create healthier boundaries for yourself and have a more beautiful relationship you might not imagine right now. And you’re also gonna inspire the other people involved too. Cuz if you’re having that experience, they are too. Cuz most people have the same, that same thing, right? With codependency, and you’re gonna inspire them to also do that in their life too, and it makes a more, uh, inde independent in the sense where people think more self-ownership, and, and all, all blossom, and we all do. I, I’ll, I’ll end it on Gandhi’s quote, right? We just all have to be the change that we wanna see in the world, and love is the answer, right? Boom. Like those two things, like if you, if you remember that, it’s like, and again, we know this in our heads, but like, be the change you wanna see. It’s, you don’t have to go out and change other people. Change yourself first and you will change the world.
MARK WRIGHT 51:58
That’s fantastic. Naeem Mahmood, it’s been so much fun spending some time with you. How can folks, uh, connect with you if they want to?
NAEEM MAHMOOD 52:05
Yeah, absolutely. They can go to my website, it’s naeemmahmood.com or they could go check me out. Uh, they can check out the podcast Peak Humans, um, or they go find me up on, uh, social, on Instagram, YouTube. It’s all my name at Naeem Mahmood and I’m sure we’ll put the links down on the show notes so people can check it out.
MARK WRIGHT 52:12
Yep. We’ll put it in the show notes. Well, thank you so much. I feel inspired. I’m ready to take on the day, man.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 52:28
Thank you so much. Absolutely. Mark, it’s been a pleasure and I appreciate, uh, the work you guys are doing and, and you do a great job asking questions and, and distilling this information. So, thank you for what you do and, and being so professional in how you do it.
MARK WRIGHT 52:41
Oh, I appreciate it. Thanks, man. Talk soon.
NAEEM MAHMOOD 52:43
Absolutely.
MARK WRIGHT 52:45
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P Family. New episodes drop every Monday, and if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING where we are winning the game of work.
