When did you know what you wanted to do for your life’s work? Some people know when they’re a kid. That was the case for Jennifer Couture. After a field trip in the 7th grade to the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, she knew she wanted to join the Navy.
Jennifer didn’t know what she would do in the Navy, but she wanted to be like the sailors she met—smart, athletic, well-spoken, and confident.
Fast forward to today, Rear Admiral Jennifer Couture is one of the top-ranking women in the U.S. military. She is the Commander of Carrier Strike Group ELEVEN, based in Everett, Washington. It’s a collection of ships and aircraft with thousands of sailors and marines that can deploy serious firepower at any time, anywhere in the world. Only four other women in the history of the Navy have had Carrier Strike Group command.
BEATS WORKING host Mark Wright invited Rear Admiral Couture on the show to learn what it takes to rise through the ranks of the military and find out exactly how military service turns everyday civilians into exceptional leaders.
Rear Admiral Couture will tell you the secret is in the name…service.
Resources from the episode:
- Learn more about Rear Admiral Jennifer Couture and her career here.
- Follow Carrier Strike Group ELEVEN and keep up to date with them on Facebook.
- Find out more about the U.S. Navy here.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
Speaker: Rear Admiral Jennifer Couture and Mark Wright
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 00:00
I come to work every day for our people because I know, like, you know, I know that someday those sailors, no matter how long they’ve served in the Navy, whether it’s their initial commitment or 30 years or 40 years, are going to be sitting around the dinner table or on the front porch or on the back porch, talking about the things they did in the Navy, and they’re not going to talk about all the, you know, all the folders with paperwork they signed. They’re going to talk about things, like the traditions, like your dad observed. They’re going to talk about standing watch in the Arctic with the Northern Lights above them. They’re going to be talking about being underway in the Caribbean where we had so many dolphins. Um, I was afraid to put the small boat in the water because the dolphins were, like, swarming us. They just wanted to play. They’re like puppies. So, I’m just, I’m proud when I see young people come to me and, uh, I think about the life they had, have ahead of them, and I really, really hope that I’ve contributed something worthwhile to them.
MARK WRIGHT 01:09
This is the BEATS WORKING Show. We’re on a mission to redeem work – the word, the place, and the way. I’m your host, Mark Wright. Join us at winning the game of work. Welcome to BEATS WORKING – on the show this week, growing leaders through service. So, when did you know what you wanted to do for your life’s work? Some people know when they’re kids. That was certainly the case for Jennifer Couture. After a field trip in the 7th grade to the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, she knew she wanted to join the Navy. Jennifer didn’t know what she would do in the Navy, but she wanted to be like those sailors she met – smart, athletic, well-spoken, and confident. Fast forward to today, Admiral Jennifer Couture is one of the top-ranking women in the U. S. military. She is commander of the 11th Carrier Strike Group based in Everett, Washington. It’s a collection of ships and aircraft with thousands of sailors and Marines that can deploy serious firepower anywhere, anytime around the world. Only four other women in the history of the Navy have had Carrier Strike Group command. The reason I wanted to have Admiral Couture on the show is to find out what it takes to rise through the ranks of the military and also learn why military service so consistently turns everyday civilians into exceptional leaders. Admiral Couture will tell you the secret. Is in the name: service. Admiral Jennifer Couture, welcome to the BEATS WORKING Podcast. It’s so great to have you here.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 02:46
Oh, well, thanks for inviting me today. I’m really happy to be here.
MARK WRIGHT 02:50
Well, this is the first time we’ve had someone at your level of the military on the podcast, and I’m super excited because I want to cover all kinds of things in our conversation today. How you got into the military, how you rose through the ranks to become commander of Carrier Strike Group 11 based at Naval Station Everett here in Washington state. And also, you know, your passion about, uh, educating, uh, girls when it comes to STEM, providing more opportunities that way. So, we have a lot to cover and I’m just really grateful for the time that you’re giving us today. So, thank you.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 03:23
Yes, of course.
MARK WRIGHT 03:24
Okay, let’s say that you met someone at a cocktail party and they’re like, oh, so what do you do for a living? Um, how do you translate your current role, uh, Admiral, in terms of just something that we civilians could understand?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 03:38
Oh, I appreciate that question. Um, yeah. So, uh, the carrier strike group, um, we, uh, we have, um, see a central node by which the Navy fights at sea. So certainly, we have the aircraft carrier, which is the centerpiece of this, um, group of ships, airplanes, um, and my headquarter staff is embarked on the aircraft carrier. We serve on the USS Nimitz, which is the first of its class of aircraft carriers. And we have, um, surface ships, cruisers, and destroyers that are part of our group as well as an air wing, uh, made up of fighter aircraft. Um, growlers, uh, which we have at NAS would be here in Washington state as well um, and helicopters. And then, um, airborne command and control airplanes. So, um, that’s really the basics of what the group is can be anywhere from six to eight ships. Um, and, uh, I guess it’s about the same number of, uh, aircraft squadrons as well. Um, and we deploy together as a team um all around the world.
MARK WRIGHT 04:52
Wow. So, it’s a group of complementary, uh, service men and women who have different roles all within this strike group. But the idea is that if something happens and we need to send some force to, to deal with something that you all move as a group to that area, is that right?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 05:10
Yeah. Oh, thanks so much for asking that question. So first, yes, it’s about complementary capability at sea in the maritime environment. Um, the United States is a maritime country. We’re surrounded by oceans. Um, and the vast majority of, um, of imports and exports travel across the ocean. Um, and so especially for people who are listening, that might be business leaders. Um, chances are, uh, goods and services that they require to do their job or that they are exporting travel via ocean. Um, the Navy is unique in that the Navy, uh, operates forward, um, away from the United States. So we are always on deployment. We don’t wait necessarily for a conflict to break out. We’re always there. So let me give you an example. Um, recently, um, the war in Israel, um, you’ve probably seen in the news that the Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group was operating in the area. That strike group was already on deployment, operating forward, providing a presence around the world um, when, uh, the president said, okay, well, move over there in the Eastern Mediterranean and provide a deterrence force to, uh, minimize the opportunity for other nations to widen that conflict. You may also have seen that the Eisenhower carrier strike group deployed. They were part, this was part of their normal schedule. They were all in the schedule to deploy. And this is just part of our rotational deployment that we maintain in peace. As well as in war, um, to make sure that, uh, we are keeping the seas safe for commerce and communication all the time. And not just for the US, um, but for every, every nation.
MARK WRIGHT 07:00
Wow. That’s really interesting. I mean, it’s like, kind of like when you drive by a fire station here in the United States, you often see them out, uh, you know, dealing with hoses and, and testing equipment and doing this and that. And I guess the idea being is that you don’t know when or where you’re going to be needed next, but you have to be ready and you have to be kind of in proximity, right?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 07:19
That’s exactly right. And so, um, we have, it’s a 10, um, actually we have 11 carrier strike groups. Um, and one is permanently stationed in Japan. Um, and we have five on the East Coast, five on the West Coast. And they’re all on rotation, um, to always be ready, um, at a moment’s notice. And so, we, we, we take pride in the fact. But when something is, uh, bubbling up, where the president and our defense leaders say, we need to have a presence here, who, where’s our aircraft carrier strike group? Where are they on deployment? And can we send them to the place we need them to be?
MARK WRIGHT 08:00
Wow. Um, you know, you’re, you’re looking at someone who has trouble finding his shoes in the morning. Um, and I’m looking at you thinking, how in the world do you manage all those, uh, moving parts, um, uh, you grew up in the structure of the Navy. So, I’m sure that you, you understand the, the structure better than somebody from the outside. But I mean, just how do you, I mean, it must take an, an enormous amount of energy and structure and thought and training to be able to mobilize a group of that many people, uh, so that everybody knows what they’re doing, and everybody does it safely. How, how did you get to that point of managing all those people, uh, so well?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 08:41
Oh, well, um, you know, unique to the military, um, we don’t hire people in at the Admiral in General level. So, you spend 28 years learning your profession, um, in a very, you know, a structured way. So, we have, you know, professional development plans for every community in the Navy. So that by the time you get to where I am, you have 28 years’ worth of experience or, or 30. Um, and you’ve done everything else. So, you know, if I was an aviator, um, and I was a pilot, I will have started out flying airplanes and then learning how to manage at the squadron level. And then a group of squadrons. And we do the same thing for ships, too. So, for example, um, you know, I started out, I’m a career surface officer, which means I have learned how to operate surface ships, um, throughout my career, um, and I’ve, gosh, served on, um, eight ships. I’ve deployed, I think, eight times. And, um, and all different positions and levels of responsibility and levels of authority, um, putting all of those pieces together. Um, and we have very senior people that work for me as well. We have captains, Navy captains, who are the squadron commanders of, you know, they are destroyer squadron commanders, um, came up the same way I did and, and I had his job. And you could see the building blocks um, all the way. So, by the time you get to this point, you feel pretty confident that you know, um, what’s happening at all the levels underneath of you. So, you don’t waste a lot of time trying to learn the organization. Um, and that goes for, for the, uh, the pilots as well. Um, but I have a great team of people who are all very experienced people, um, doing that. And I would also say the important part is, um, adhering to a process, um you know, no, no matter where you go, chances are that all of the, the strike groups do things very similarly. Um, and then we feed into, um, a structure above us. Um, that’s all it’s about information management. It’s about understanding that. The common picture, um, and managing that information. It’s not unlike, um, people trying to understand supply chains or, or distribution chains. It just so happens that for us, it’s distributing people and ships and airplanes and submarines.
MARK WRIGHT 11:25
Yeah. And I think the cool thing about the U.S. military is that when you get into it, you, you swear an oath to the Constitution. And I think when we’ve seen some, you know, problems in other countries, some military leaders get to be so powerful that they sort of have, have these groups under them that are loyal to them as a person. But in, in our military, it’s not a loyalty to a person. It’s a loyalty to the Constitution, right?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 11:49
That’s right. And I, I love it. Um, I think it’s what makes us unique as Americans. I’ve never felt more patriotic than when I’m saying the oaths and reminding me that, um, it’s about something bigger. It’s about continuing the, the American experiment, um, and the people who wrote the Constitution knew that. Um, it’s a, it’s class, classic and timeless. They knew that there will always be people who seek, um, power and so they wrote that stipulation in there to make sure that, uh, Generals didn’t overthrow the government, right? That’s a timeless and classic thing as well and so I’m really proud of that fact.
MARK WRIGHT 12:32
I’d love to go back in time now because when you first, when I first met you, you told me the story of how you got interested in the military. And the thing that I think is so cool about your story is that when I started thinking about it, I think sometimes we don’t think that children or young people are mature enough to know what they want to do for their life’s work. And we sort of like, oh yeah, when you get older, we’ll, you know, we’ll, we’ll see what you want to do. But, uh, I thought it was just such a beautiful story. You’re, you’re a 13-year-old, you’re in the Girl Scouts, you go on a field trip to Annapolis, right?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 13:05
That’s right.
MARK WRIGHT 13:07
And, and on that field trip, you saw people in the military and you were like, I want to be like them. And I just, I’d love it if you could retell that story because it is, it’s such a cool story for a 13- year-old to, to have that sort of like, wow, epiphany.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 13:21
Well, I really appreciate that. I think this boils down to inspiring people to do good. Um, yeah, so, so I grew up in a, in a very, um, rural part of New Jersey and people ask what? Why do they call it the Garden State? I can tell you because I grew up among the gardens of the Garden State. Um, and we, so we took a, a weekend trip to Annapolis where the Naval Academy is. And, uh, I was in seventh grade, and I had not seen a Navy ship. I didn’t know anybody in the Navy. I didn’t know what the Navy did. I had no relationship, no context at all for this trip. And we took a tour of the academy. And I looked at these young people, the students, we call them midshipmen at the Naval Academy. And I looked at them and I thought, oh my gosh, they’re smart, which I, I really was an academic, you know, that was important to me. I was very academically competitive, um, and they’re athletic because they all play sports and they’re all physically fit. Um, and as they gave us our tour around, they were all very confident, well-spoken, charismatic. And I thought, this is the kind of person I want to be when I grow up. I didn’t say I want to fly airplanes or I want to drive ships, or I want to be on a submarine. I thought I want to be like this. And I’m sure, you know, certainly I could never, I wish I could go back in time and know who those people were and find them and tell them, because of you, there’s me. And sometimes I get the chance to do that. Um, but I thought, okay, that’s it. I want to be in the Navy because they’re, being in the Navy means I get to be this person that I aspire to be, um, in my mental picture. And so of course I came home, and I told my parents, I’m going to join the Navy. And they were like, what?
MARK WRIGHT 15:16
Excuse me?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 15:18
What are you talking about? Like, where did this come from? Um, and even though I ended up not going to the Naval Academy and I had another path to becoming a Naval Officer, um, I, I still every day think about um, when I come to work who am I inspiring? And are there young, um, sailors and are there young officers who look at me and think someday I want to be her, am I, I want to be that person, um, and I hope so. And uh, that’s why I’m still here.
MARK WRIGHT 15:53
So, you went through the ROTC program, is that right? To become an officer in the military?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 15:59
I did. Yes.
MARK WRIGHT 16:00
Tell me, how does that work as opposed to going to the, you know, the academies?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 16:04
Yeah, um, so the Navy, um, pays your tuition, um, to go, and sometimes more, uh, to attend a civilian university. It’s really a very interesting story, actually, and I, I, in my last job, I oversaw the, NROTC scholarship selection process. Um, and I was visiting, uh, I was actually visiting the University of Southern California and I was, uh, visiting with the unit there and I went into their building, and I saw that the building had been built in 1940. And I thought, wow, that’s fascinating, the foresight of our executive leadership to understand that in 1940, we were going to need a larger officer core than the service academies alone could produce. And it turns out that the person who created that program was Chester Nimitz. And so, um, as I am in command of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group, it inspires me to think about, um, what he must have been thinking, um, you know, as he looked ahead to what the decade of uncertainty meant for him in the 1940s. And so, um, the principle of this program is that, um, we, we have, uh, officers who graduate with degrees from civilian universities, um, who then go through a commissioning program and enter the service. And so, they teach you how to wear your uniform and they teach you naval history and leadership and things like that, that you do in addition to your civilian studies. Um, and the great thing about the Navy, uh, about the program is, the ROTC program is that, um, you know, the services can decide they need more people, and so they can offer more scholarships or less, and so it’s a, it’s a great tool for them to, um, manage the officer course that way.
MARK WRIGHT 17:59
Uh, Admiral, everyone that I know who’s, who’s served in the military, um, is, is an exceptional human being, and I’m not joking. I have not met; I have a lot of friends, uh, some are, one of my friends is a retired, uh, Rear Admiral from Navy Region Northwest. Um, I’ve, uh, others are, you know, Colonels, others are, you know, captains, others are pilots. But to a person, they are exceptional. And I’d love your perspective on why that is, because, um, I know that the military has standards, but there must be something about the training process and, and the process of doing the job that turns a, what could be an average human being into a really exceptional human being.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 18:42
Oh, thank you so much. I love talking about creating a sailor. Um, and that was also part of my job when I oversaw, uh, boot camp. And we take people, especially in the United States. We have people coming from all over the world to join the Navy, um, to join the U. S. Navy and become Americans, um, before every class graduates from boot camp, they have a naturalization ceremony. Um, so I love talking about that. I think a couple things, um, values, um, we have, um, a core, um, ethos, ethics, we have values and we say, this is who we are. We tell the truth, we have courage, we commit to each other, we tell the truth, we make promises and we keep them. Um, and while certainly from time-to-time individuals may fall short, this is, this is our, um, this is our culture. And the SECNAV has been very clear in saying we, our goal is building a warfighting culture of excellence. And so we have this code we look up to, and especially for people new to the Navy, and they say, they really, you know, they, they’re understanding what the purpose is, what our mission is, what our values are, and they get inspired like young me. And they say, this is the kind of person I want to be. And I think, you know, if you’re in the service for, um, you know, for a long time, it becomes ingrained about who you are and how you make decisions and how you live your life. And so, um, and I think, you know, just the fact that we call it the service really demonstrates what we’re talking about here. Um, you know, people serve their country. They make decisions to give up holidays, weekends, um months and months of their lives, some people volunteer to get shot at, if that’s, you know, uh, you know, what, what it’s called, if that’s what is required of it, um, and they look and they think about life outside of what’s happening to them. Um, they think about being the best, you know, that the, um, the old army commercial that’s coming back, you know, um, being all you can be. There’s a grain of truth to that, that we as a team, as a culture, and a people um, unique to ourselves are always trying to make our make each other better, which is not necessarily something that you see all the time. And in the civilian world, um, we support each other, um, and we’re always encouraging each other to be best and live up to that, um, model of who you are as a person, what’s important to you. So, I think maybe that’s why it seems unique in today’s society.
MARK WRIGHT 21:45
Yeah. And I think also to a person, they are also humble, and they have a level of humility, but now it just, my, you know, the light bulb just went on when you started talking about, it’s not about me, it’s about we. So, in the training and in the service, if somebody is being selfish or self-centered, I’m guessing they get their chops busted pretty quickly because the expectation is, it’s not about me first, it’s about we.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 22:11
That’s exactly right. Our number one job here is we’re fighting teamwork, um, all the time, and not just, you know, when bullets are flying, but every day. Um, I, you know, I, I thought so much about that as a junior officer, and, and so, and while it’s, it’s, it’s a funny story about how I got into the Navy, it’s a better story about how I stayed in the Navy, and it’s all about teamwork. Um, I’m kind of addicted to it, actually, if you would say that. I thrive on watching people, um, learn, grow, do things they never thought were possible, and doing things together. So as a junior officer, I was stationed on a large amphibious ship. Um, it’s, uh, the centerpiece of an amphibious group that, uh, you know, so it might look like a little helicopter aircraft carrier, um and, and, uh, the Marines is really the centerpiece of the Marine group. Um, and I thought, um, you know, as a junior officer, um, you know, it’s easy to get lost there. But then you realize that every single person on that ship is relevant and important to landing the landing force of Marines, you know, as a, as a junior officer, I had a role to play, but so did the captain, the XO, every single person was engaged in that effort. And at the end of the day, we thought we did it. Um, the same thing is true when I was on a destroyer, and we did an underway replenishment. So, think about this, think about you driving your car down the highway and a gas station pulls up next to you and you’re still driving down the highway and you’re gonna, they’re gonna give you some gas, some hoses and you’re gonna refuel while you’re still driving. It sounds crazy, right? You’re gonna open up the back, you know, the, the hatch of your car, or your trunk of your car. They’re gonna put some food and supplies in there. Things you ordered off of, uh, you know, the internet. They’re gonna put them in your trunk. Well, we, we do this at sea. Underway replenishment. A replenishment ship comes. They give us some hoses that we hook up to our ship and we take gas, and food. Um, it’s actually a really exciting idea, and it keeps our ships at sea. Um, but, uh, and I thought, you know, as a as a senior officer when I was the number two and when I was the CEO of that ship, and I realized that there are 303 sailors on my ship, and every single one of them is engaged in this effort. They are making sure that we take fuel safely. They make sure that we’re driving the ship in a safe place. They make sure that the food that we got is getting down to the refrigerators. Um, you know, and um, it’s really exciting. So, I’ll, I’ll also say, you know, we all wear symbols of our qualifications, you know. So, it’s pretty famous that aviators have their wings of gold, you know. But we all have those, um, those qualification pins and it’s not infrequent on a surface ship that a young officer, when it’s time they’ve met all the qualifications to earn the, the pin invites their, their division to participate in the pinning ceremony because every single person on the ship teaches you how to be an officer. Um you know, I’ll, I’ll take this example, because I always like to tell my culinary specialists, the people who make our food, um, and make sure that we eat and do a great job for us. A lot of times those people can be taken for granted. Um, it’s, including by their other, you know, their shipmates. Um, and I always tell them, if we don’t eat, then we don’t shoot missiles, and we don’t hunt submarines, and we don’t launch airplanes, the aircraft carrier would come to a screeching halt if nobody on board could eat. And so, um, I think it just reflects how every single person matters and that’s really exciting to me.
MARK WRIGHT 26:21
Wow, I’d love to talk a little bit more about just what it’s like to be on deployment. How long is a typical deployment in the Navy these days and what, what happens during deployment?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 26:30
Oh, that’s, that’s a great thing to talk about um, I think our goal is to keep them around seven months. Although they generally, you know, they’ll fluctuate depending on other things that are going on. Um, and so before that, you’re gonna spend about a year doing training. Um, first as an individual unit. So, let’s say, for example, on a destroyer, they’ll spend that time, um, certifying and all of the different areas will have outside entities come and inspect them and make sure that they can safely operate the engineering plan. For example, or, uh, you know, they’ll fire, test, fire a missile to make sure that they can do it safely. And then you’ll get the group together. Um, so a couple months before deployment, I will get all of my subordinate units together. And we will go to sea, and we’ll do some exercises to practice and make sure that we know how to safely operate together. And we can, um, achieve all of our mission objectives. Um, and so that all of that takes place, you’ll, you’ll be underway, um, probably a few months before you even go on your deployment. Um, and then it depends on where you are in the world, typically, um, carrier strike groups that deploy from the east coast will go to the Mediterranean or the Persian Gulf. The sixth fleet is headquartered in Naples. Um, and, uh, that’s a generality of course, they can go wherever, um, we need them to go, um, and so, but they tend to focus on those specific issues, uh, in the, in the world. And then, of course, the, what the carriage groups in the Pacific deploy, um, to the Pacific area of operations. Um, and so you’ll tend to spend your training focused on those areas. Um, and while being away from home, you know, everyone’s sad to leave their family, right? Nobody in the military enjoys leaving their family. We all love our family, um, but we know this is the important thing that we’ve signed up to do. Um, we have mission, and we have a purpose, and that’s what keeps us motivated every day to keep getting better. Um, we know that it’s important that our, um, our ship, our submarine, our airplanes, they don’t do the United States any good sitting in port. And so, we know it’s important to take them overseas and show that the United States, um, is sailing around the world. So, I think, you know, sailors, um, need to be reminded of that from time to time. Um, especially, you know, those who are deployed over Christmas. Um, I also really enjoy um, being at sea. And so, um, you know, it’s fun for me to have this, this environment where, especially on a small ship or probably on a submarine, everybody knows everybody. It’s like a family. Um, and so, you have a, a life, a pattern of life at sea that gives you some comfort. Um, so for example, some of the favorite things we like to do is movie night! It’s a fun tradition cause we, you know, we have lots of traditions and we like to, to really instill that sense of culture with our traditions. Um, so movie night, of course I have some rules. Um, you know, I always say, if you can’t sit next to your mom and watch this movie, then we’re not going to be watching this movie and, um, which is totally fine. And so, um but yeah, like, you know, um, you know, Navy-focused movies, including the ones back from, uh, you know, World War Two era, like Mr. Roberts, um, and, uh, the Caine Mutiny. I know there’s a, an update coming from that. And, and so just kind of reinforcing that sense of heritage, um, and camaraderie. It’s all about the camaraderie. So, you know, watch it. I’m a big college football fan. So, um, you know, Saturday always have college football on in the, the main meeting areas, you know, um, on a, on a ship. It’s the wardroom. That’s where the officers dine and meet and, uh, and share, um, you know, uh, just general camaraderie with each other there. Um, so that’s fun. I like to do that. And then, of course, on the aircraft carrier, um, Sunday, we always have a big brunch, um, especially in the, in the officer’s wardrooms that, uh, you know, we always look forward to having homemade waffles. And it’s a, it’s a nice time to, to relax, um, and take stock. So, um, and then typically, um, typically once every 30 to 45 days, you’ll pull into a port to kind of refresh your mind, right? Everyone gets tired and certainly operating in a risk-inherent environment. We don’t want people to lose focus. Um, and so, um,
MARK WRIGHT 31:34
And can you get off the ship during those, those ports of call?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 31:36
Yes. Yes, absolutely. And I have been very fortunate. I spent most of my career, uh, homeported in Norfolk, which is, uh, our largest Navy base in Norfolk, Virginia, uh, deploying all throughout the Mediterranean. And so, as I was a young girl and I thought, join the Navy, see the world, and I have. Boy, have I, um, I’ve been all over Europe and, uh, and now most recently I’ve visited Japan and it’s been, uh, really exciting. And so, sailors take a lot of pride in, uh, visiting places all around the world and comparing notes with each other about where have you been? Um, and it’s been, it’s been very exciting.
MARK WRIGHT 32:17
Um, I’d love to know a little bit more just about, um like living quarters. So, like when you’re on a ship, is there any, like, personal space where it’s like, I’m in, I’m just in my room or, or are you always like constantly like right next to someone, how, how does privacy work on a ship?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 32:34
There’s not a lot of private space. Um, you know, certainly depending on the size of the ship. Um but no, not really. And more so for officers, um, you know, officers typically share a stateroom with at least one other person. The more junior you are, the more people who you share a stateroom with. Um, you know, um, junior officers on their first or second C tour may share a stateroom with anywhere from three to five other people. And so, you really don’t have a lot of space. There are enlisted folks who live in large birthing compartments, um, you know, on the aircraft carrier. I think a birthing compartment can be about 80 people, um, and they have the space that’s, uh, whatever is underneath of their bed, their rack, is what they can bring with them.
MARK WRIGHT 33:28
Wow. Sort of like the, uh, flying on the airplane and everything has to fit in that little space. Um, I’d love to know more about, uh, what’s your best advice, Admiral, when it comes to maybe, talk to that young person who’s thinking about a career in the military? What’s your best advice for planning the trajectory of your career? And, and planning for, you know, how do you, how does growth occur? Is it something that you can be mentored into, or how did that work for you?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 33:57
So going back to, you know, your, your common nudge humility, um, I think, well, there’s two things. One, I think young people sometimes get very overwhelmed with the thought of making a commitment. Um, wow, joining the military, that’s a five-year commitment. I can’t think about what I’m going to do five years from now, but it can also offer you some space because, you know, today a lot of young people can’t, you know, they can’t imagine what they want to do with their lives. So, I would encourage people, join the military and give yourself some space to decide what you’re good at and what you’d like to do. So, for me, um, you know, I was kind of, you know, I’m, I’m glad you mentored, mentioned mentorship. I think it was kind of aimless for a little bit. Um, I joined the Navy, um, and as a junior officer, um, I couldn’t really find a place where I fit in. And I think some of that is just a reflection of a different, you know, 1995 was a different time and place. Um, and so some of that culture was about proving yourself proving you belonged. And for me in particular, I was among the second year of that women were allowed on combat ships. And so there was, um, a, a lot of pressure, um, to demonstrate that you could fit in and people wanted to kind of test you. Um, I don’t think that’s what we have today. I think we have a much more mentoring culture here, uh, and people can show you the possibilities of what you’re good at, what you can improve upon, and how you can learn and grow in the future. So, I think, you know, as I talk to JOs, I tell them, you don’t have to make a commitment to being an admiral today, but think about what you want to accomplish here. Um, and every time someone checks into my command, I ask them, what are your goals for this, this tour? Um, and sometimes they have them and sometimes we’ll help create them. And it wasn’t until I was a mid-grade officer that I had a captain who took interest in my career. Um, and it wasn’t just me personally. It was all of us as, as, um, mid-grade officers, he had a process for sitting us all down. He made these binders for us, and he said, okay, let’s talk about where you’ve been. Where you’re going, what you’re good at, and what you can improve upon. It was, it was funny, um, you know, as a young officer trying to prove myself, I had a bit of a temper. And my captain sat me down and he said, you’re really great at your job, but if you want to be the captain of a ship someday, you’re going to have to control your temper. Because the way you’re treating people, um, is not going to go well for you. And I really took that to heart. And he was a hundred percent right. And, um, it’s definitely not, uh, the way that I tend to operate now. And there’s lots of those stories. Um, you know, I had, um, another mentor when I was, um, I was a Commodore. Um, and I was, uh, in command of a squadron of destroyers and my boss, who was the strike group commander, said to me, what, what do you think you’re going to do next? And I said, next? And he said, okay, let’s have a serious conversation about the future of your career in the Navy, and I want. But my career in the Navy’s over, I’m already a captain. He’s like, oh boy, let’s talk about this. And so, it’s kind of a little bit about building a resume for executive leadership in the organization. Um, and uh, you know, it was, it was really meaningful for me because I, those two people in particular, without their coaching, without their phone, you know, ability to phone a friend, I wouldn’t be here.
MARK WRIGHT 37:59
Was it hard as a female in the early days? Was it, was it really sort of like you, you need to prove yourself and people were maybe a little harder on you than they would have been on, on a male, uh, sailor or what, what was that like in the, in the early days as compared to today?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 38:14
Yeah, I think a little bit. Um, I think it was, I, I, I liken it to, um, being picked last for the kickball team. Like they said, okay, Congress said we had to take girls. So, you’re it. Let’s go. Get over here. Don’t cause a lot of trouble. I think the expectations were low. Um, I don’t think anyone expected much out of it. Um, you know, certainly, um, Admiral Franchetti talks a lot about this, our VCNO, and nominated to be the Chief of Naval Operations, because she was also going through that. Um, you know, that, um, people didn’t know what to expect. Um, they, and so, um, um, we tried to fit in. Here’s the difference between what I saw then and what I see now for young people and parents of young people considering a career in the Navy. Every Admiral who is my peer has always been in a Navy where there were women on ships and there were women flying jet airplanes. They don’t know anything different, and they have seen people excel in those positions. Um, I see young women officers owning the Navy. They have this sense of ownership about this is our Navy and we’re going to make it better. And we’re going to, we’re going to coach and mentor and train people so that they can take our place. And since I have much less time left in the Navy than I have behind me, as I look to all those people, I think, how can I set them up for success as they go on? How do I give them the building blocks of a career that will enable them to lead others as they go on? And I had, um, I have a chart in my office, and we in the Navy call maps charts, and it is the last time that I, uh, was in command of my ship, and at the end, the quartermasters who navigate the ship, they took that chart. And they signed the back of it, and they sent, you know, little well-wishers, you know, and they signed their names. And as I look at the people who signed that chart, they have all gone on to, to senior enlisted leadership positions, they’ve gone on, you know, the officers have gone on to command positions. And I think about investing in our future, and how I hope that, you know, I have done a good job in investing in people. And I think certainly that’s the difference in our culture today in the Navy than it was when I was a J. O.
MARK WRIGHT 40:53
Yeah. How much say does someone have when they first enter the Navy as to what they actually do for a job? How does that process work?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 41:02
That’s a good question. Um, this is about, um, So, you know, obviously most people are coming from a, from college. If you’re an officer, um, enlisted folks is a little different process. So, if you enlist, you go to the recruiting station and you enlist in the Navy. You will take, um, a standardized test, the armed, armed services, uh, vocational, uh, aptitude battery, ASVAB, um, and you will, the score of your ASVAB will determine what ratings are open to you, and it’s generally based on your ability to, um, maybe do some math to read and write. I, I remember when I took this test, I took it, um, in high school, and there was one section of the test, and you had to tell which way the gear is returning, and, and I, I don’t know that I did very well in that section of the test. So, they give you this battery of tests, and then how well you, you perform determines what ratings are open to you. So those people who score very high are fire control men, so they operate the combat systems, missile systems, corpsmen, our medics, um, for officers, um, some of the service selection is based on grades. Um, if you go to the Naval Academy or ROTC program, you’ll also have a series of leadership qualities that you’re evaluated on while you’re in the commissioning program. And you’re ranked, so it’s a competitive ranking, and they will start with number one, and they will say, hi, number one, what would you like to do? And typically, that person wants to be a SEAL or a pilot, and then they get to number, you know, 720. Makes you, hi, number 720.
MARK WRIGHT 42:49
Hi, Mark.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 42:52
That was me. And they said, congratulations, you’re going to be, you know, a surface warfare officer, typically. Um, and not to, to, you know, of course, I love my community. Um, but, you know, for the pilots, they need people who are very good at math and science. And, and for nuclear-trained officers, they need people who can do a lot of calculus. Um, and so they take, oh, you got an A or B in calculus. Congratulations. You’re going to be a submariner because you can split some atoms for us. And so that’s kind of how this, this process works. Um, and, and it doesn’t mean that that’s the final answer, it’s the start of your career. And for me, this was the start of my career. Um, you know, so I went to George Washington University, and I wanted to be an intelligence officer, um, because I thought I had visions of giving people high-level briefings of, you know, uh, crises all over the world. And they said, congratulations, you’re going to be a surface warfare officer. And certainly, that’s the best thing that ever happened to me. And I always tell young people, if you are a team athlete, if you play football, if you play baseball, um, basketball, you want to be a surface warfare officer. Because if you thrive on teamwork the way that I do, um, this is the place for you. Um, and as we talked about earlier, this is why I’ve stayed. Um, but yeah, so, so there is some choice, um, but it’s not open for everyone and you need to meet the qualifications. And so, you know, like we talked about a little earlier. You know, stem, um, it is just a means to an end of making sure that we have people who have the capacity for learning very, learning to operate very complex systems. And both officers and our enlisted folks who do some very complicated things with information technology as well.
MARK WRIGHT 44:49
My dad served in the Navy as a reservist in the early 1960s, just when things were starting to percolate in Southeast Asia. It was actually, uh, stationed on a ship called the USS Whitehurst that was based on Lake Union in downtown Seattle. There’s an, the old armory building there. My dad was a boiler tender, so I’m guessing he scored pretty low because he used to have to take salt tablets and I think it was four on four off around the clock to keep the boilers stoked on this on this ship um, but the thing that I always loved as a kid Uh when we were when it was time for bed, he would do the whistles that they used to have on the ship and he’d, he’d go, I’ll hear this, he would go into this this, you know, this ritual that that would mean, you know lights out uh, on the Navy ship, and, uh, it’s, it’s just, uh, I have such fond memories of that. And I know that even though my dad, you know, served for just a year or two, uh, during that period that it had a big impact on him and just the camaraderie and the culture, uh, I think was, was, was a lasting thing for him. Do I, I’m guessing they don’t, they don’t still use, do they still use the old whistles and all that stuff?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 46:00
Of course, we still do. Of course, we do. As I do that to my daughter too. I, you know, I sound revely in the morning now.
MARK WRIGHT 46:09
Revely, revely.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 46:11
Watch taps, you know, tap, you know, taps, taps, lights out, maintain silence about the decks now taps, um, and uh, whistles to call attention. It’s funny, you know, so there’s a term of endearment we call each other shipmate and it goes back to the olden, uh, you know, days of sail where the, there’s still some of that, that the areas of the ship where you would take your mess, you would eat. Um, you, they would call each other messmates, so if you think back to, you know, like, Nelson on the Victory, you know, or the Constitution, the different sections of the ship where people ate, they referred to this person as their messmate, it was a term of endearment, and so today we talk about people as shipmates. So, as my daughter was bringing home her prospective fiancé to meet mom and dad, she said to him, it’s all going well unless my mother calls you shipmate. And then it’s not. It means you’ve screwed something up. Well, um, because I call her shipmate all the time. Like shipmate. What, what’s going on with your, your messy room?
MARK WRIGHT 47:13
Oh, it’s when you call her out. Yeah.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 47:15
That’s when I call her out. Yeah. Well, um, yeah.
MARK WRIGHT 47:19
Admiral, what’s your, what’s your most proud moment of your career?
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 47:24
Oh boy, there’s so, so many of them. Um, you know, um, certainly I’ve been privileged to command the Navy at many levels now. This is the third time I’ve been in command, but command of a ship. And I was so very proud almost every single day I was in command of the things that the people, uh, the sailors and the officers who worked for me were doing, um, you know, in command of a squadron of ships. I was so very, very proud of the COs of those ships and the things they were doing far, far away. Um, and so I’ve been proud of, um, people introducing their families to me. And I’ve been proud of them saying, um, oh, Admiral, this is my wife, or this is my daughter, this is my dad. Can I take a picture with you? And so, we have the opportunity when we were coming back from deployment on the Nimitz. Um, we had a tiger cruise, which means that we had the opportunity to bring, uh, family guests, family and friends on board the ship. And uh, we had gosh, like 800 family and friends on board the ship coming back from Hawaii, back to San Diego. And as I walked around the ship, all of those sailors and officers had their parents there with them or their, um, you know, their spouse, you know, not their spouses, but their parents or their siblings. Um, and they said, can I take a picture with you? I had so many dads who said, Admiral, can I get a selfie with you? And it reminded me why I come to work every day. And I come to work every day for our people because I know like, you know, I know that someday those sailors, no matter how long they’ve served in the Navy, whether it’s their initial commitment or 30 years or 40 years are going to be sitting around the dinner table or on the front porch or on the back porch talking about the things they did in the Navy. And they’re not going to talk about all the, you know, all the, all the folders with paperwork they signed. They’re going to talk about things like, the traditions like your dad observed, they’re going to talk about standing watch in the Arctic with the Northern lights above them. They’re going to be talking about being underway in the Caribbean where we had so many dolphins. Um, I was afraid to put the small boot in the water cause the dolphins were, like, swarming us. They just wanted to play. They’re like puppies. And so, I’m just, I’m proud when I see young people come to me and uh, I think about the life that they had, have ahead of them. And I really, really hope that I’ve contributed something worthwhile to them.
MARK WRIGHT 50:12
Yeah. Uh, that’s, I think we should, uh, take that, what you just said and put it into a commercial because I would join the Navy after listening to that. Um, before we wrap things up, Admiral, I’d love to ask you just about the military as, as a vehicle to get you ready for careers outside the military. And I know that it’s, it’s been somewhat of a struggle sometimes for people to make the transition from the military to, uh, civilian jobs. But I think the struggle has more to do with society’s perception of veterans and not the veterans capabilities because my brother runs a machine shop that makes airplane parts and he goes specifically to job fairs and looks for veterans. Because they can lead and they can follow and they’re smart and they show up on time and they, they, they honor their word, just all the attributes that you said before. What’s your best advice to people who are making that transition from the military to civilian life and also just for business owners. I mean, a lot of business owners listen to this podcast. Um, and, and just, I’d love for you to just speak to that, that issue of the transition.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 51:23
So, two things. One, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. They’re leaders. Give them a task. They know how to do it. They’ll get all the materials. They’ll tell other people what to do. Um, so I think that’s a tremendous talent. They’ll be honest and transparent, um, in their communications, which is important. Um, and so I think, you know, many people look for veterans, you know, at job fairs and different things because they know they’re people they can depend on. You tell them what time they come to work, and they come to work at that time. Um, they stay late even if you don’t ask them to because they know that they have to get something done. They have pride and accomplishment. They want to do a good job. Um, and so they’re going to stay and long as the, you know, until the job gets done. I think sometimes people struggle with a transition, um, because there’s less structure and this is just my own personal observation. They’re used to being rules. They’re also used to people following orders. And sometimes for civilians, they’re like, dude, you can’t tell me what to do. So, I think sometimes they’re used to having a lot of structure and sometimes people struggle in the beginning. Um, they also struggle, I think sometimes because everyone is not as team-oriented, um, as veterans are. And so it confuses them sometimes. Um, and you know, we all postpone that day that we have to get out of the, the military, um, but you know, everybody. You know, there’s, there’s laws about that. You have to get out at 40 years, and that’s the end. Um, but you know, it happens to everybody, and I dread that moment. Um, and so, for, for business owners, I think the best thing you could do is coaching. I think it’s the best opportunity that you have to ensure that the Veterans that you’ve hired for all of the great things that we know, um, continue to succeed in your organization as they make that, uh, and recognizing that it’s different and weird. Um, you know, the last job I had as a civilian, I was like, uh, you know, I was, um, I, I think I worked at the custard stand, you know, in the summertime, you know, that was like, you know, I wrote my book.
MARK WRIGHT 53:39
And now you’re commanding battleships.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 53:41
Because I wasn’t old enough to drive, you know, last time I had a civilian job. I’ll tell you a funny story, I did a fellowship, the Navy offers these wonderful federal, well, federal executive fellowships. And so there was a, at the think tank that I worked at, uh, in D.C., you know, on my fellowship. It was a great opportunity to learn, listen, uh, read, um, and get engaged with what’s happening in the world. There were, um, representatives from all services, so Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard. Uh, the first day of our fellowship, we got there, it was like, you know, July. It was the middle of July in D.C., and we all showed up at 8 o’clock in the morning, and the building was locked because no one comes to work in July at 8 o’clock in the morning at a think tank in Washington, D.C. And they were like, thank you for your service. Come back in September. Like, you’re, you’re good. Take some time off. And we’re like scratching our heads. We don’t know what to do with all this time off.
MARK WRIGHT 54:40
I’d love to wrap things up by talking about how you are redeeming work when it comes to your work in the military. And on the form that you filled out for us, which we ask all of our guests to do, I love, what you put down here is, is essentially what every top entrepreneur has put down, uh, when it comes to that question. How are you redeeming work? And your answer was empowering every person in the organization to contribute their unique talents and strengths to make work more meaningful every day with a sense of connection and purpose. I mean that’s, that’s like the mission statement of every top entrepreneur in the world and uh, I love that there is this you are so in sync with what these entrepreneurs are doing to redeem work. So, I’d love for you to just sort of end on on that note in terms of what redeemed work looks like through, through the military lens.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 55:33
Yeah, so during the course of our conversation, you know, we’ve talked about, you know, why people join the Navy, why I joined the Navy, why we stay, what we do here, what’s meaningful for us. Everybody comes to this organization wanting to accomplish something, and it’s our obligation as leaders to give them all of the tools, support and structure to accomplish great things. And I think, you know, as, as society has evolved, leadership has evolved. Leadership is not telling somebody what to do. Like anybody could do that. That’s not leadership. Leadership is encouraging people to develop professionally, giving them coaching and mentoring so that they can grow and develop. Setting goals with them, stretch goals. Hey, I know you don’t know how to do this yet, but I’m gonna teach you how to do it. Um, removing barriers to their success, having transparent communication back and forth with them, and saying, checking in on them, hey, we set this stretch goal, how are you doing? What can I do to help you? Um, you know, when I do midterm counseling for people, I ask them, what are the barriers to your success and how can I move them for you? I think, you know, that is how you improve the quality of someone’s work environment and really inspire them. The other part of this that I think, you know, is unique, maybe, maybe unique to the military, um, is that we know, um, that we need people to take initiative and responsibility in ways that I, I can’t see every day. My people go and do things all day long and I don’t know what they’re doing. I, I expect that I’ve set up a good structure of communication and guidelines for them so that they can excel in that organization. Because if we rely on having to tell people what to do and giving them a list of tasks every day, Uh, we will fail, and not only will we fail to accomplish the things that we need to do, but we’ll never grow. We’ll never have innovation and creativity and problem solving to the level that we need for people operating, um, especially in an environment that relies on people to do, uh, great things almost every day. Um, so I’m, I’m excited, I’m always excited to see what my people are going to accomplish, and I’m always excited to see what they bring to me. And instead of bringing me problems, I love when they bring me solutions. Ma’am, um, we identified an issue and this is what we’re gonna do about it. And what do you think if we did this instead? Um, you know, and I have felt empowered by my 10th command to do that. Um, recently I came to my boss and I said, I think this process worked 20 years ago, but I think it’s not working right now. And here’s what I think we should do instead. Um, and so I, I’m excited about the future and I’m excited to see how, when even junior sailors come to me and say, I’m taking responsibility and I’m taking the initiative to contribute something well-meaning to our environment. Um, it lets me know that, um, the future leadership of our organization is gonna be in good hands.
MARK WRIGHT 59:00
Well, Admiral, this has been such a, an honor for me to spend some time with you and really have learned a lot about just how the military works. And, and after talking with you for the better part of an hour, I, I’m not wondering anymore why these people are so exceptional. It’s just, it’s just absolutely clear that environment that you talked about, creating that environment for accountability and flexibility to let them become great. Um, that’s just fantastic. So, I want to say thank you for your service and what you have done for decades for our country and for, uh, just being such a great leader and such a great example for, for the men and women that you lead. So, thank you so much for being on the show.
REAR ADMIRAL JENNIFER COUTURE 59:39
Oh, thank you so much, Mark, for having me. And you’re, you’re very, very kind. I appreciate that.
MARK WRIGHT 59:45
I’m Mark Wright. Thanks for listening to BEATS WORKING, part of the WORKP2P family. New episodes drop every Monday. And if you’ve enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Special thanks to show producer and web editor Tamar Medford. In the coming weeks, you’ll hear from our Contributors Corner and Sidekick Sessions. Join us next week for another episode of BEATS WORKING, where we are winning the game of work.
