In this episode, we unravel the innovative approach of integrating AI in healthcare and the legal industry and how young professionals can evolve into trusted advisors. Kate The WORKP2P Sidekicks explore the complexities of saying no and setting personal boundaries both professionally and socially, sharing personal anecdotes and strategies for maintaining balance and authenticity in various aspects of life.
Key Takeaways:
- Learning to Say No: The importance of setting personal boundaries to avoid overcommitment and maintain well-being.
- Balancing Commitment: Strategies to manage expectations and prioritize important tasks while respecting one’s own limits.
- Honesty and Communication: The need for clear and respectful communication when declining requests to foster stronger relationships.
Guests:
Our WORKP2P sidekicks are Tamar Medford, show producer; Libby Sundgren, content development manager; Alysse Bryson, VP of community development; and BEATS WORKING contributors Mark Wright and Elan Olsen.
Resources Mentioned:
- Contributors Corner September 2024: ”Why Saying ‘No’ is Good For You (and How to Do It!)”
- Events: Secret Sidekick Suppers
- Organization: BEATS WORKING & WORKP2P
- Guests: Bios & LinkedIn
Quotes:
-“It shouldn’t be a job requirement to always project energy and positivity.” – Alysse Bryson
-“The key to saying no is understanding the real reasons behind your yes or no.” – Mark Wright
Listener Challenge:
This week, practice saying no to a non-essential request and notice how it affects your stress levels and workload. Share your experiences with us on social media using #BEATSWORKINGShow.
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Transcript
The following transcript is not certified. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. The information contained within this document is for general information purposes only.
[00:00:00] Mark Wright: We are springboarding off Contributor’s Corner as we do every month. And this month, Kristin Graham, Word Nerd, Former tech, leader. let us in a session on why saying no is actually good for you and some strategies on how to do it. So we’ve got the team assembled from work P2P. I’d love for all of you to introduce yourselves.
[00:00:22] Tamar Medford: My name’s Tamar Medford and I’m the production sidekick.
[00:00:26] Elan Olsen: Am Elan Olsen and I am the creative sidekick.
[00:00:30] Alysse Bryson: My name is Alysse Bryson and I am the community sidekick.
[00:00:34] Libby Sundgren: I’m Libby Sundgren, and I’m the content sidekick!
[00:00:39] Mark Wright: This is, I think, a universal struggle. Someone asks you to do something and you are faced with saying either yes or no. So I’d love to start the conversation just by asking the team, is this something that you’ve struggled with in your life and why?, Alysse, [00:01:00] let’s start with you.
[00:01:00] Alysse Bryson: Well, yes, I have definitely, definitely, definitely struggled saying no when I want to say no because I am a people pleaser. And I want people to think I can do everything and I want people to think that I’m really nice and fun and I am those things, but I just have 24 hours like everybody else. And earlier on in my career, I was just, I said yes to everything because I was, you know, building my, my brand, building my resume, building my skillset.
[00:01:36] Alysse Bryson:, and it served me really well until it didn’t., and I’m a person who also loves more, and I have a tendency to overdo things., but in the last decade, I have been much more thoughtful around only saying yes when I really want to say yes. Or it’s very important that I say yes, the impact is, there, [00:02:00] and it’s okay to say no.
[00:02:02] Alysse Bryson: It’s okay to say no to things. And that takes practice. That takes a lot of practice. Now I’m great at saying no in like my personal dating life. Like we joked on the episode, The Contributor’s Corner, that I’ll just sit there and be like, no, no, no, no, no, No.
[00:02:20] Mark Wright: And that comes with a swipe
[00:02:22] Mark Wright: of the
[00:02:23] Alysse Bryson: to the left. A SWIPE to the left. But in my everyday life, when people ask me to join another board or come to an event or feature this or talk about that, sometimes it’s harder to say no in those areas, because I want people to like me.
[00:02:40] Alysse Bryson: It’s really simple, right? Like, it’s that fear of not being liked that, that, that we say yes when we don’t mean it. But I’ve really practiced over the years learning to say no and, I’m better, I think, sometimes.
[00:02:56] Mark Wright: Okay. I like that. We’ll, we’ll drill down on some of the [00:03:00] strategies, for how to say no in just a minute. Elan, what about you?, have you struggled with the idea of saying no?
[00:03:06] Elan Olsen: Well, I’ve been thinking about this a lot this week, because I think I’ve got kind of some duality going on. In my professional life, I find it really easy to say no. In fact, I’ve been coached to say no less in my professional life. And that comes from a place of being scared. of taking on too much, not being able to do something well, taking on something that’s totally new so there’s learning involved.
[00:03:31] Elan Olsen: And so I’ll say no immediately more as a defense mechanism in my professional life. But then in my personal life, if it’s asking me to do something I have a really, really hard time with that. And similar to Alysse, like I don’t want to let anyone down. It’s really important events like weddings and birthdays and first houses and babies that feel like I can’t miss those things.
[00:03:57] Elan Olsen: Otherwise I’m really letting somebody down [00:04:00] because those people would be there for my big events. So two different places that I live in when it comes to saying no, for sure.
[00:04:09] Mark Wright: That’s great. Libby, what about you?
[00:04:11] Libby Sundgren: Yes! I think, similar to Alysse, Because we always work together. but when we were at the magazine, so what, you know, after I first moved to Seattle and, I was young, I was when I started working there, I think 25. Anyway, somewhere in there. And, I did say yes to everything because I, it was my first, you know, real, real job out of college.
[00:04:36] Libby Sundgren: And, it was a new city and new people. And I, you know, wanted to do as much as I could. And also felt bad because I also want people to like me. I don’t want them to think that I don’t like them. I mean, I used to cry I would sell campfire candy and someone would say no. I mean, the politest no, the nicest no ever.
[00:04:59] Libby Sundgren: The no could [00:05:00] even have come with a donation. And I still. Would turn around from the house and like cry on my walk back to my parents at the end of the walkway. So I don’t have a thick skin that might shock you to hear that. But you know, I think what helped me kind of transition away from that is, well first, once you start to say no and you realize that people still like you and they still think You’re still a nice person, even though not doing everything.
[00:05:29] Libby Sundgren:, I, it’s one of those kind of waterfall moments, I guess, where when you do it a couple of times, you feel like you can do it more. Now I just say no to everything. Just kidding. I don’t, and then having kids, I think really made me. You know, reprioritize what was important to me and what I wanted to do with the time that I do have.
[00:05:53] Libby Sundgren:, and then my husband, is really good at cheerleading me, into saying yes to the [00:06:00] things I want to do and really Reminding me that I don’t have to say yes, really reminding me that I don’t have to say yes to everything. And, that we just, there’s just not enough time.
[00:06:12] Mark Wright: Yeah. Oh, that’s great.
[00:06:14] Libby Sundgren: TJ.
[00:06:15] Mark Wright: what about you?
[00:06:16] Tamar Medford: Absolutely., I feel like part of the yes comes with the territory when you’re Canadian. I mean, we’re, pretty nice people. So, but in all seriousness, when it comes to my professional life, I, you I feel like I’ve always said yes in, I had that, I’ve always had a fear of abandonment since I was younger. And so it was that desire to be needed, to be wanted, to be valuable or important. And so, you know, anytime somebody would ask something of me, I’ve always had a knack for figuring things out. And being able to be tasked with something that maybe I didn’t know how to do, but I loved to look into it. I love to start the project and [00:07:00] figure out what to do next. And that was almost came at a cost to me because I would, people would know me as that., and, I actually, we were in, a work meeting with a leadership group way back when I was in corporate. And they said, you know, if, if. If you could sum something up about each of you, what would it be? And when it came to my turn, three people said, Tamar, get shit done. And, you know, I wore that like a badge of honor again, because I wanted to feel needed. I wanted to feel wanted, right? Because of that fear of abandonment. But, Doing that took away from me really understanding what my unique abilities were and how I could be even more productive and really excel at things. You know, and in my personal life, I actually had a friend call me out once and not talk to me for two months. It was a really, really close friend of mine. And I would always say yes, but then cancel out at the last
[00:07:52] Tamar Medford: minute because I was saying yes to too much. And I thank her so much. We’re still friends today. But I needed that. I needed someone to say, you know [00:08:00] what? I’m tired of you bailing on me. Just say no. And so in my personal life now, even though there’s, there are still times I say yes when I would preferably like to say no., that is, that hit me, you know, because my relationships are so valuable to me and I was like, wow, I needed, I needed that.
[00:08:18] Tamar Medford: So
[00:08:19] Mark Wright: that’s cool., we talked about this in the Contributors Corner episode, but I think it’s interesting that one of the first words that kids learn is the word NO. Because they realize that there’s power in that word. I’m being asked to do something by a big person, and I’m going to say, no, I’m not going to put on that shirt.
[00:08:39] Mark Wright: No, I’m not going to do this. And we spend the, from two to 18 trying to get our kids to say yes. And we kind of make them feel like they’re not being agreeable, but then. Then they go through another phase when they start to get into their teenage years, when sometimes they do say no and, they put [00:09:00] their foot down.
[00:09:00] Mark Wright: They’re like, no, dad, not going to do that. So I think it’s interesting that we were socialized to say, yes, we’re socialized to get Elang. We’re socialized to be helpful. And yet if we do it too much, it becomes something that’s a negative in our life., I was a yes person for many, many years.
[00:09:18] Mark Wright: Still am to an extent. I’m getting better though, as I’m getting older to, to learn how to say no., I’d love to talk more about strategies, and I think also the idea that who’s asking the question, I think is really important to this equation. Is it your spouse? Is it your boss? Is it someone you just know sort of casually?
[00:09:40] Mark Wright: In your circle of friends., and I think, there’s a consideration that has to take place because if my wife asks me something, maybe I don’t really want to do it. But if it’s really important to her, I’ll say, sure, I’ll do that. But if it’s some stranger who’s inviting me over for dinner that I don’t really know them that well, I might [00:10:00] say, you know, my, my calendar’s booked up.
[00:10:02] Mark Wright: Alysse, how did you get better as you got older about like saying no for the right reason and in the right way?
[00:10:09] Alysse Bryson: You know, what’s coming up for me right now, and this didn’t come up for me when we recorded Contributor’s Corner, I’m very vocal about the person, that I’m a person in long term recovery from alcohol and substance use disorder. I don’t shy away from talking about that. I’ve been known to admit that I hang out in church basements and, as a woman who has sponsored many women and taken them through a 12 step program, that is an area where I learn to say no a lot.
[00:10:36] Alysse Bryson:, because there was really important for both me and the person that I was sponsoring that boundaries were in place., and I was not good at it at the beginning at all. I became really aware of how codependent I was, and that wasn’t helping anyone. and so I definitely feel like in the last Five to seven years when I look at the [00:11:00] different relationships I’ve had of sponsoring women and being like this is how I do things and You said you’re willing to follow directions You either are or you’re not gonna do what you say you’re gonna do.
[00:11:11] Alysse Bryson: I’m not going to change the rules for you And so if you don’t, that’s fine. We just won’t work together. And I just hold the line, hold the line, hold the line. And so I’ve definitely gotten practice in that area for sure. I think parenting gives you practice in, defining boundaries and saying, no, I’m really working with my dogs on boundaries and not jumping up and being like, no, no, you know, But in, and for me, I think that saying no in the workplace was a, big struggle to get over.
[00:11:44] Alysse Bryson: And for me, it really, it took, a health crisis, of being a complete workaholic and working myself into the hospital over it to realize I have to start saying no to things. I can’t be everyone to every. And I don’t need to, because that’s just ego when I am [00:12:00] being like that, right? So it just takes a lot of practice, and I think the first, the first step is quite honestly being honest with yourself.
[00:12:07] Alysse Bryson: Like, I’m not going to tell someone, Oh, I really wish I could, if I don’t wish I could, right? I can just say, I’m not available. Thanks for thinking of me. Not available. And, they don’t need, I don’t owe them an explanation. Right. And I got a lot of this mentoring from Kristin., Kristin Graham, you know, she, became a mentor to me before we became best friends.
[00:12:32] Alysse Bryson: And, as I was moving up through senior leadership in the companies that I was at, and she was the one that told me, you don’t have to say yes to everything. And I was like, I don’t. You know, I think especially as women, we think that we’re raised to be these good little girls that like, mind our P’s and Q’s, and do everything we’re told, and make sure our hair looks right, and make sure we smile, and you know, that’s just a bunch of bullshit, like that, we don’t, [00:13:00] it doesn’t need to be that way, and, so I learned to say no, but then I was making a lot of excuses, and you don’t need to do that either.
[00:13:08] Alysse Bryson: BEATS WORKING Like, less is actually more. You don’t owe people an entire explanation as to what your reasoning is. You don’t even have to have a reason, right? So, I don’t know if you got anything out of that,
[00:13:19] Mark Wright: I like it because, you politely acknowledge the The offer by saying, thank you. That’s really nice of you to ask, but I’m not available. I love that phrase, at least I’m not available because I think a normal person isn’t going to press you and say, Oh, what do you mean you’re not available? What do you have going that night or whatever?
[00:13:36] Mark Wright: I think a normal person would just kind of let it sit. And if, they do push you, it’s like you don’t owe them anything. I’m sorry. I’m not available. Yeah. That’s great. What about, I’m curious about, I mean, one thing that I think all of us have seen and probably experienced to an extent in, you know, outside of work P2P, a company dedicated to redeeming work.
[00:13:58] Mark Wright:, a lot of companies take [00:14:00] advantage of the fact that people are afraid to say no. Yeah. And so they’ll overwork you. They’ll maybe impose unrealistic deadlines so that you have to work 12 hours a day until you get the project done. What have you all experienced when it comes to saying no in the work world, in the context of work?
[00:14:17] Mark Wright: Anybody have anything? And what was that like? I’ll give an example that I, I lived through in broadcasting. And I, I think I may have told this story before, so I’ll make it not a super long story, but when I first started as a journalist in Spokane, I wanted to become an anchor and my news director came to me and said, Hey, we’ve got a weekend anchor position open.
[00:14:39] Mark Wright: And I wouldn’t have seen my wife if I had been working on the weekend. So I declined. I said, no. And the news director was shocked by that because those are hard to get and it ended up all working out. And I think, you know, I ended up getting a morning anchor position a few months later, which is Monday through Friday.
[00:14:57] Mark Wright: And I think it goes hand in hand with what you were saying, Alysse, [00:15:00] that. Hand in glove to saying yes or no are boundaries. And we have to really define those boundaries before we get into these situations so that we’re not on our heels kind of thinking, well, should I do this? Should I not do this? If we have a clear understanding of what’s important and where our boundaries are, then the yes and no becomes, I think, a lot easier.
[00:15:20] Alysse Bryson: I agree with that. And you know, one of the struggles I had at my last job was I’m an idea person. I’m a gregarious person. And so when I’m up, man, I’ll bring the whole room up with me, but it’s not realistic for me to be up all the time. And I’m not a vending machine. You can’t come up and like push my nose and I spew out creativity ideas.
[00:15:42] Alysse Bryson: Like sometimes I’m really good on the fly and then people experience that and they expect it all the time., and so that became a struggle for me, especially as someone who deals with depression. It’s not realistic for me to be up and energized and super smiley all the [00:16:00] time., and it’s also shouldn’t be a requirement of my job.
[00:16:04] Alysse Bryson:, to be that all the time. Like I have to always get the job done. That’s what I’m getting compensated for, but I don’t have to always do it with, you know, pom poms in my hand and doing cartwheels., and so that can be really hard to manage other people’s expectations, of what they think that you should be, because sometimes you are that way, but other times you’re not, that can be really challenging.
[00:16:26] Mark Wright: Anybody else have a work experience of saying no or regretting not saying no?
[00:16:33] Tamar Medford: I feel like there’s projects that I have been willing to take on. And even though the project was really cool to learn, and it was, once we were done that project, it felt good to get it done. But in the moment, it was saying yes to something where I knew that it, it was over my bandwidth.
[00:16:55] Tamar Medford: I knew that this would be, you know, involve me working [00:17:00] extra hours and, which I’m always willing to do, but, I’m grateful that we work for someone who wants us to oscillate, right. Who wants us to, to, we get the job done, but it’s also, you have to rest because or else you’re not useful. And, you know, saying yes to those types of projects, it just decreases my productivity with everything else that I do. And so I think it’s, you know, I get excited about Projects, whenever there’s anything new, I do need to learn how to set. Okay. I don’t have the bandwidth currently, but this is what I can do.
[00:17:37] Tamar Medford: If it’s something I’m excited about, you know, it’s a no right now, but maybe a yes later kind of thing. I think that’s what I need to learn how to manage a little bit better.
[00:17:46] Mark Wright: Ah, thanks, Tamar. Libby, what about you? And
[00:17:54] Libby Sundgren: first is that, for the majority of my career, I [00:18:00] have worked in cultures where It was expected that you would do certain things outside of, your typical hours, you know, your salary. So whatever, your hours technically don’t really count, but it was expected that you would do certain things that aren’t in your job description.
[00:18:22] Libby Sundgren: And if you didn’t, people were annoyed with you. They kind of like,, you felt like you were going to get in trouble., I thought I might get fired or they might, something bad would happen, which was a little dramatic, but, so I really did, spend, that was, you know, really my experience, with feeling like you should be able to say no, but not, you know, But not saying no, because you didn’t want to not look like a team player or, have everybody, talking shit about you when you, don’t help after the event or something.
[00:18:54] Libby Sundgren: But I also, want to admit that I am guilty [00:19:00] of also asking people to do things that I were not in there. Like, I was someone who would be annoyed with someone who didn’t say yes to whatever it was. And, you know, the older it took, I, you know, it really was steeped in that first, like, big job culture.
[00:19:20] Libby Sundgren: That’s just what was ingrained in me. That, like, we’re all on the same team. We all do everything. We all help with everything. You never say no. And it took I mean, years of people saying NODA stuff for my mindset to really shift from they’re not a team player, they’re Like, that’s really lame that they’re not going to do this to like, well, they don’t have to do this.
[00:19:46] Libby Sundgren: Like, this isn’t in their job contract. This isn’t written into, they’re hiring paperwork or something. Like, they don’t have to volunteer their time to do these certain [00:20:00] things., Out of obligation, if they have other things that they, you know, would rather do. So guilty of not saying no, and also guilty of, mentally shunning people who said no to me.
[00:20:12] Libby Sundgren: But I’m better now. I promise guys, you can say no to me. I
[00:20:15] Mark Wright: I think that’s interesting that you, Tamar, you raised the issue of oscillation when our boss, Dan Rogers, gives us two weeks at the end of June and two weeks at the end of December to oscillate, to go recharge our batteries, to completely unplug from work. And I think companies that structure and intentionally Design the company to honor things like oscillation, like recovery time.
[00:20:42] Mark Wright: I think that says a lot about, the company. I think so many companies are in the, churn and burn mindset where they’ll just grind people up and spit them out. If you don’t want to do it, we’ve got 200 other people who will. And, you know, I worked for a long time in TV news with that, you know, with that [00:21:00] mindset.
[00:21:00] Mark Wright: There was a period though, that sometimes. You have to say a hard no, and I remember anchoring for a station in Seattle, and on the morning show, we had to have mugs with a sponsor’s name on the mug on the news desk in front of us, and if the logo wasn’t showing, the producer would get in our ear and say, hey, can’t see the logo, so I’d have to twist my mug so that I The damn logo would show to the camera.
[00:21:28] Mark Wright: And this is on the news desk. Can you imagine Lester Holt drinking from like a Toyota cup during nightly news? And it, I was livid about it. I went to my news director. He’s like, out of my hands, can’t do anything about it. Went to the general manager. She said, this is a very important sponsor.
[00:21:45] Mark Wright:, and the mugs are going to stay. And at that moment I said, I got to get out. I, I, in my mind, I said, I’m out., I cannot do this. And so I got with my agent and got a job at a different station and, it felt really good and [00:22:00] thankfully there was another option. But that’s an example of a boundary that was absolutely clear to me that I was not going to dishonor that boundary because I couldn’t sleep at night if I was going to sip from that mug and deliver the news like that.
[00:22:17] Mark Wright: So, Ilan, I’d love to ask you, some of the hardest no’s happen when good friends or people in our social circles ask us to do stuff. And have you come up with strategies or what’s the struggle like been for you?
[00:22:31] Elan Olsen: I am still looking for a strategy, so, listeners, write in. In my community, like, thinking about personal life, I’ve got a lot of salespeople in my community that meet my no with objection handling. So it’s very di I also have heard Kristin Grimm say you don’t, you can just say no, you don’t need to explain why you’re saying [00:23:00] no.
[00:23:00] Elan Olsen: I have tried to embrace that. Doesn’t fly. So I’m also comfortable saying like, I don’t want to do it. I would like that time to myself, but it’s very clear that that’s hurtful or Well, why don’t we rearrange it so we can do whatever on a different night? I just have quite a few people in my life that, even if I’m out of town and I can’t make the baby’s first birthday party, it’s pretty clear that was hurtful.
[00:23:29] Elan Olsen: Or, I’ve got to work one night for my lighting company so I can’t make the friend’s birthday party. That was hurtful. So definitely I’m responsible for the boundaries on my half, you know, not being available for everything, but I would love to hear, from everyone else how you deal with personal life, objection handling from, especially family.
[00:23:56] Elan Olsen: I feel like from family [00:24:00] it’s particularly hard.
[00:24:02] Alysse Bryson: say get a new family or get new friends. That’s probably the easiest thing to do.
[00:24:06] Libby Sundgren: mean, as someone who is aged higher than you, Elan, but not too much higher, but just like a little bit higher. I think we’re still technically the same, generation, but I’m kind of at the top. You’re at the bottom. Yeah. We’re at the opposite ends of it, but we’re still within it. But I think as, With friends, I mean, as people get older and they get more perspective on their own boundaries and your lives fill up with so many other things, other than just your friends, it is a really, like, rocky Stage when people are, newly married, like the first kind of wave of kids.
[00:24:51] Libby Sundgren: It’s really hard for people to understand and see other people’s perspectives. And You know, like I, [00:25:00] because I am a nut like this, I will think about things that happened like seven years ago and be like, man, I, if I had the same like insight that I do now, I wouldn’t have been that upset at somebody or I can see why they were, really upset with me.
[00:25:18] Libby Sundgren:, I have a very dear, dear friend who, you know, I missed her. Couldn’t go to her second, the baby shower for her second baby. And it was a few months after I’d gotten married. And I didn’t understand because I didn’t have kids and I thought, why is that such a big deal? I went to the first one.
[00:25:38] Libby Sundgren: I told you I couldn’t go. I don’t know why you’re so upset. She was having her second kid and she just felt like she needed me and was, lonely and was in a smaller town and, just, I think just felt like she was doing it by herself and really like wanted [00:26:00] somebody to support her.
[00:26:02] Libby Sundgren: She has a great support system, but, know, we have talked about it many times since, cause we did have a falling out for a few years. Talking about it now with her, we’re like, we’re both like, Oh, you were right. You, we were both right. We were both wrong. if we’d had the insight that we do now, it would be different. Family. I think it, it’s, I don’t know about that.
[00:26:26] Mark Wright: It’s funny that Alysse said, you know, just get a new family or just get new friends. But as, I’m of the mind, Ilan, that If a friend’s going to get all bent out of shape that I missed their child’s birthday party, I don’t need that friend., if they’re going to play mind games and try to be emotional, you know, hold me emotionally hostage.
[00:26:45] Mark Wright: They need to grow up. Life is busy., they should appreciate the time that you are giving them when you do give it to them. And I just think it’s petty to, to, to play mind games with people by saying, you, you missed my birthday party, or you missed this or that. It’s like, [00:27:00] God, just Get over yourself and be grateful for the time that your friends do give you.
[00:27:03] Mark Wright: Because, that’s more about them controlling others and their emotional, you know, lack. I just have very little patience for that, that kind of behavior. So the old guy get off my lawn.
[00:27:18] Elan Olsen: No, I hear you, Omar.
[00:27:20] Mark Wright: Yeah. Another thing that, Kristin Graham floated. In the Contributors Corner episode was the idea that your yes doesn’t have to be 100 percent yes, and your no doesn’t have to be 100 percent no. A friend of mine is terminally ill with brain cancer, and about a month ago, friends organized a celebration of life for her.
[00:27:42] Mark Wright: And so we all gathered at a friend’s house, there were about 15 of us, and I had an important meeting, I had an interview. That was almost at the same time, but I knew that I could probably go for a half hour. So I got to the party and everybody was just being able to say [00:28:00] what we wanted to say to our friend.
[00:28:01] Mark Wright: And I was able to say that I loved her and I was so appreciative of everything that she did in my life. And it took 30 minutes and I said, you know, I’m so sorry. I have a meeting that I just can’t miss. And that was an example of, I didn’t have to go for the whole time, but I went for enough time. So that it was meaningful.
[00:28:20] Mark Wright: And I think there are lots of ways that we can do a partial yes or a partial no. As long as it honors what we truly want to do with our time. It doesn’t have to be a hundred percent. I don’t know. What should we, where should we go from here? Y’all?
[00:28:33] Tamar Medford: I wanted to mention something, Mark, that you and I talked about earlier is that I also, like Alysse, live in long term recovery and I’m not shy to talk about it. I’ve learned a lot of boundary setting through recovery. There’s, you know, I’m not always great at it, but I’m much better than I was. And one of the areas though, I can become very selfish and I want things my way and I wanna do what I wanna do because I also, [00:29:00] before I was in this relationship, that I’m in currently, I lived on my own, you know, and I had full control of what I did every day. Well, you know, to an extent. And now coming into a situation where you have a partner and there’s kids and, and there’s a lot to the dynamic. I am starting to realize that there’s certain times where I would like to say no. But I have to weigh out how important is it to my partner? You know, is this something that is going to create some animosity? Like, I, and we talk about that kind of thing. You know, I had a sobriety celebration and we, I talked about that.
[00:29:41] Tamar Medford: You know, my partner doesn’t like people being around a bunch of people that she doesn’t know. And, you know, I understand that, but she knows how important that is to me. Right. And, There’s certain things that both of us are like, okay, you know what? This isn’t as important to me. So it’s okay if you don’t come or join me, right?
[00:29:59] Tamar Medford: [00:30:00] Social situation. Sometimes it’s, I’ll go by myself because it’s okay. You know, I don’t mind going by myself., so I think it’s, Saying no sometimes in something you don’t want to do, you also have to consider the person you’re saying it no to. And when you’re in a relationship and it really is important to that person, you know, there’s a little bit of thought behind that I think sometimes.
[00:30:22] Mark Wright: Hmm. That’s
[00:30:23] Libby Sundgren: That’s such a good point. You know, we, one of our, former coworkers, died about a year and a half ago, but they had us, no, it was last winter, sorry, excuse me, last December, but they didn’t have this, they had the celebration of life for her in April., and so a bunch of us, had planned on going and I, You know, I, morbid, but I personally love, funerals and memorials and celebrations of life just because I think it is such a great way to like, share the love that you have for each other and for that person. [00:31:00] My dad’s funeral party, forever one of my favorite parties., and I think probably because I just, know as.
[00:31:08] Libby Sundgren: Someone, you know, when it’s your family member or loved one who has died, it really just Feel so good to see other people love them and share their their own like memories and just to know that other they meant as much to other people as they did to you or close. So that’s a really long explanation for the story.
[00:31:27] Libby Sundgren: I’m actually telling we went to this memorial. This celebration of life and I was, so I was very excited to, you know, be with some people I hadn’t seen in a long time. And I really, I blocked out the whole day. I was like, TJ, I’m leaving at 10. I’m not coming back until I don’t know when I’m gone the whole day.
[00:31:46] Libby Sundgren:, and then my mother in law, that it was going, she was having her 80th birthday party that day. And I said, Oh, I can’t go. Sorry. I’ve got a celebration of life for a colleague, a former colleague. I can’t [00:32:00] make it to your party., and I was just very fixed on that was a no, that was a boundary for me.
[00:32:06] Libby Sundgren: And I was going to be at this celebration of life and dinner. And we were going to just like hang out together for 12 hours. They’re probably thankful that we didn’t do that, but, she brought it up to me, you know, many times and yes, she’s 80, but, I think I got the feeling that even if she didn’t talk to me really at the party, because I’m her daughter in law, I’ve known her for years and she’d be, Hosting everybody else.
[00:32:33] Libby Sundgren: And I would end up talking to other folks. Um, it was really important to her that I just was there in some form. So I did leave the celebration of life after a few hours, so I could get to the 80th birthday party. And I was really feeling like I was going to miss out on a really good reunion. And, um, when I told folks at the [00:33:00] celebration of life that I was going to be leaving early, they.
[00:33:02] Libby Sundgren: We’re so nice and they’re like you should go absolutely you should definitely go to that 80th birthday party Like we’re not even gonna hang out. It’s fine Or if we do it’s not gonna be that long like you’re not gonna miss anything. It’s okay So they made me feel good about saying no to something to say yes to something that I initially said no to but I
[00:33:22] Libby Sundgren: Should
[00:33:22] Mark Wright: Hmm.
[00:33:22] Libby Sundgren: yes to
[00:33:24] Mark Wright: lot of gray area, isn’t there?
[00:33:26] Libby Sundgren: so much gray I mean, does anyone else have something that you said no to that you wish you had said yes to?
[00:33:35] Mark Wright: Oh, that’s
[00:33:35] Libby Sundgren: Have you ever regretted a no? It’s
[00:33:38] Tamar Medford: I’m sure I have. I mean, there’s those times where you see pictures after and you’re like, man, I wish I would have gone to that. That looks fun.
[00:33:47] Mark Wright: Isn’t that funny? I mean, you hear famous actors all the time. Tell stories about, you know, I was offered the role of Han Solo in Star Wars and I turned it down or something like that. And years [00:34:00] later, it’s like that, that would have been a game changer for your career. And it happens a lot, but at the time, like Libby, like you said, at the time, it’s just all in the context of, what’s important, who’s important.
[00:34:11] Mark Wright: And it’s kind of gray. My, my brother worked for a, well known politician here in Washington for a number of years. And this politician, you know, politicians have a lot of people vying for their time. His policy was. Weddings are optional, funerals are mandatory. And that was his personal philosophy on what you go to, you can miss a wedding and nobody’s going to die.
[00:34:38] Mark Wright: But if you miss, if you miss someone’s celebration of life, that you really do only have one chance to, to gather with that group, to remember them that way,
[00:34:46] Libby Sundgren: a good policy. I think I live by that policy too. I like that.
[00:34:51] Mark Wright: that’s cool. That’s good stuff. Having a strategy beforehand. Alysse, refresh me again on people ask you, Hey Alysse, [00:35:00] let’s do X, Y, Z, and you really don’t want to do it.
[00:35:03] Mark Wright: What’s your go to?
[00:35:04] Alysse Bryson: Thank you so much for asking me. I love that you thought of me for this. My dance card is so full right now. Have a great
[00:35:13] Mark Wright: That’s awesome. Elon, would you like to make one up on the fly? Elon, we’d like you to come over for dinner tonight.
[00:35:21] Elan Olsen: Oh my gosh, Mark, thank you so much. I don’t want to, but I really appreciate the invite.
[00:35:28] Mark Wright: That’s awesome. What’s that?
[00:35:30] Elan Olsen: kidding, by the way, I would always attend dinner at the right residence.
[00:35:34] Mark Wright: that’s awesome. Tamar, any thoughts as we start to wrap up?
[00:35:37] Tamar Medford: will usually just say that I really appreciate the invite, but I have a lot going on in my life right now. So, and leave it at that., it’s been hard to get to that point, but it feels much better than saying yes to someone and bailing out because I know I’m not going to have the time and hurting them even more.
[00:35:57] Tamar Medford: So I, I always try to remember that if [00:36:00] I say yes, and I have to cancel, I’m probably. going to affect that relationship in a negative way.
[00:36:06] Mark Wright: Yeah. And I’ve been a chronic people pleaser my whole life. And I’ve tried to get better about saying no, because when I do say yes to things that I’m really not, my heart’s not in, into it, it just, the, the feeling of regret and the kind of resentment that comes Elang with that is just not a feeling that I like to have.
[00:36:23] Mark Wright: So I I’ve kind of gotten smarter. At knowing if you do this, it’s going to feel like that. And do you really want to feel like that? And do you really want to, you know, give up half your Saturday or all of your Sunday or whatever? So, but having that, response ready. And I think one thing that Kristin Graham also said was you don’t have to give an answer right away.
[00:36:46] Mark Wright: You could say, give me a day or two to think about it. I’ll get back to you. That gives you some time to really
[00:36:52] Alysse Bryson: that one phrase? I’m sorry I’m late. I didn’t want to come.
[00:36:58] Elan Olsen: Oh, I thought you were going to say, Oh my [00:37:00] gosh, I’m sorry. I have social anxiety. I need time to think.
[00:37:06] Mark Wright: I love it. I love it.
[00:37:08] Alysse Bryson: No, but I do think, and we’ve talked about this as though you shouldn’t say, I wish I could. Don’t lie. Unless you really wish you could, you don’t need to lie either. BEATS WORKING Right? So, it’s just like, oh, man, I wish I could do it all. I really do.
[00:37:23] Mark Wright: And I think Tamar, your life is really busy. You’re, that’s the truth. That’s your truth. And I think, and for me, my truth is that I really do need some downtime. And, that’s what I will usually say is that, man, I’ve been so busy lately. I just need some downtime. So I hope you understand that I won’t be able to come.
[00:37:41] Mark Wright: And that’s true., and I don’t think anybody’s going to challenge that.
[00:37:45] Tamar Medford: And I think one of the things I have learned over the years is not to share the why behind, I said no, right? Because it just, people, you know, it’s, you don’t have to explain yourself.
[00:37:56] Mark Wright: Yeah. If you say, I can’t come on Friday, they say, well, let’s make it Saturday then. [00:38:00] And then you’re like, Oh no, dang it. I gave them an out. Any last thoughts? Y’all, this has been fun.
[00:38:09] Alysse Bryson: No. No.
[00:38:11] Libby Sundgren: no,
[00:38:12] Alysse Bryson: no.
[00:38:13] Alysse Bryson: No.
[00:38:14] Tamar Medford: say No.
[00:38:15] Mark Wright: I like that. That just sounds, it sounds good. It sounds final. Are sure? Any final thoughts?
[00:38:22] Libby Sundgren: COUNTDOWN
[00:38:23] Tamar Medford: Duh duh duh
[00:38:25] Libby Sundgren: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[00:38:29] Libby Sundgren: no, no, no, no, no,
[00:38:30] Alysse Bryson: No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
[00:38:33] Alysse Bryson: No.
[00:38:33] Libby Sundgren: Sing us out guys.
[00:38:35] Mark Wright: Libby, your, uh, your sun chips have given you lots of energy. I love it. Here’s an inside joke, though, for listeners. Libby Sundgren is the only person I’ve met in my life who lines up crunchy food in front of her microphone right before we record a podcast. Every time.
[00:38:56] Alysse Bryson: It’s always crunchy. It’s always crunchy, too. Nothing’s soft. [00:39:00] She’s not over there, like, souping up applesauce.
[00:39:02] Libby Sundgren: No.
[00:39:03] Elan Olsen: nothing if not on brand.
[00:39:05] Mark Wright: There we go. Carrots, apples, chips. it’s, uh, it’s been fun., I think this has been really helpful. I think, when we talked with Kristin Graham earlier, understanding why you say yes or no, I think is a really important thing for, understanding your development, your, who you are as a person, because sometimes if we explore that, we’ll get to the root of something that we need to fix.
[00:39:27] Mark Wright: And for me, I don’t need to please everybody, but that’s what I’ve, I’ve done for a lot of my life. So,, good stuff. All right, team. This has been fun. Another edition of Sidekick Sessions. Thanks for being here. We’ll see you next time.